AMC 20 Axle Shaft Outer Bearing Cup Loose in the Axle Housing Bore

[Stacey]

Mr. Moses, I don't know if you still read or reply to these questions, but I have a couple about my amc20 axle shimming.  I read just about everything I could find and still have a couple questions.  I took everything apart to replace my oil seals on axle shafts.  My first question is what is the purpose of installing shims on drivers side only or can the shims be installed on the passenger side only?  The reason I'm asking this is because my bearing race on drivers side slides in housing real easy--no pressure needed and my bearing race on passenger side slides in only about a quarter inch before having to tap it in the rest of the way.  My thinking is if I install shims on drivers side, it might allow the race to spin in tube and if I install the shims on passenger side the race fits tight enough that it won't spin.  Any answer to these questions would be greatly appreciated because I'm so ready to finish this project.  Thanks in advance.

[Moses Ludel]

Hi, Stacey...Normally, the side thrust and weight against the tapered bearings will keep the bearing cups pressed outward against the brake support plate.  (The seal plates fit outside the brake backing/support plates.  The dust cover is outside the seal plate.)  If the tapered bearing cones are in good shape, greased properly with correct end play, there is less likelihood of the bearing cup(s) wanting to creep in the axle housing bore...The left/driver's side gets shimmed due to axle torque transfer and other engineering demands.  

It is not normal and not okay to have a loose bearing cup-to-bore fit.  (I'm sure you expected this comment.)  Installing a shim(s) on the passenger side instead of the driver's side would allow the driver's side bearing cup to fit slightly further into its housing bore.  Is that your motive for asking the question?  Does moving the driver's side cup inward provide a snugger fit for that cup in the housing bore?  Keep in mind that the bearing cup rides against the brake support plate when you are checking the bearing cup fit.  Pushing the bearing cup further into the housing bore is not where the cup will ride.

There is an industry acceptable solution for certain bore-to-bearing cup issues.  Loctite makes a series of "retaining compounds" that in automotive applications can create an interference fit.  (These compounds work within specified gaps.  The compounds are not metal nor are they intended for excessive parts looseness or wobble.)  Below is a link to information on a wide range of Loctite retainer compounds.  Read through the information carefully and thoroughly.  Automotive uses are included.  Identify the problem you are trying to solve and consider whether or not a specific retaining compound offers a solution:

https://www.henkel-adhesives.com/us/en/products/industrial-adhesives/retaining-compounds.html

For your specific situation, the actual clearance or looseness must be within the guidelines of the retaining compound.  Other concerns are the amount of heat present, cleanliness, exposure to chemicals, etc.  Understand that these retaining compounds, applied properly, really work.  Once set, the cup will not move.  So, if there is a compound that you believe will work, make sure you do not apply the compound until final assembly, with the correct shims in place, applying the compound as the last measure.  With the seal plates tightened in place, I would tap the right side axle shaft toward the left side and lean something weighty against the right axle shaft end;  make sure the driver's side bearing cup is seated against the secured brake support plate before the compound cures.  Most of these compounds require heat to remove the parts. Use the compound only at the bearing cup and bore's mating surfaces.

Read the descriptions for each retaining product.  A clean surface is required, and Loctite may recommend use of the Loctite cleaning and curing agent as well.  If you use the cleaning/curing agent, know how much this will speed up the cure time—plan accordingly.

The choice of a liquid retaining compound is governed by the degree of cup looseness.  If the gap is minor and within the compound's ability, the compound will work.  If the driver's side bearing cup bore is too loose for retaining compound but still reasonably round, another approach is high tensile braze buildup at the worn bore area in the axle housing.  Heat needs to be minimized, just enough to properly flow a thin layer of brazing filler in the loose area—not enough to warp or grossly overheat the axle housing. 

If you consider brazing, first sit through my how-to video on brazing a heat treated component without destroying the heat treatment.  Remove all parts from the driver's side axle housing before attempting a braze build-up.  Clean the bore of any grease or contaminates.  Use flux or flux coated braze rod as I illustrate in the video.  It will take very slight buildup to create an interference fit...You will need to carefully burr grind and sand the excess brazing filler to shape the bore properly.  (Inexpensive, 1/4" shank drum sanders work well here.  They are available at Lowe's and elsewhere.)  The goal is a smooth surface with a light interference bearing cup fit like the "normal" right side axle housing bore:

https://www.4wdmechanix.com/how-to-braze-repair-of-damaged-axle-shaft-threads/

There is additional information on axle shaft fit and parts orientation at the forum discussion link below.  (See my March 22, 2021 reply for parts orientation details.)  The exchanges narrow down key fit-up issues:

This should point to some options.  Let us know what you decide to do here...

Moses

 

[Stacey]

Thanks Moses: sorry for the late reply, but I think you answered my questions.  Oh one more question--what do you think about skf speedie sleeves on the bearing race?  I found one(99256) that would fit the measurements and is not very thick?  If you think this is a option, I would definetly use the loctite retaining compound between race and sleeve and between sleeve and housing.  What are your thoughts on sleeves?  Thanks: Stacey

[Moses Ludel]

Stacey...The sleeve repair you've discovered has a different purpose than your housing bore issue.  These SPEEDI-SLEEVE products generally fit over a shaft with a groove worn by a seal.  A classic example is a crankshaft snout that has timing cover seal wear.  The thin sleeve fits snugly over the crankshaft snout and becomes the new surface for the seal's lip.

These sleeves are made of stainless steel, intended to serve as a contact surface for a fluororubber seal.  Despite its relative hardness, generally the sleeve is not designed as a severe load bearing surface.  However, in SKF's description of applications, differential pinion thrust shafts are mentioned.  That would be a high torque load.

I suggest that you contact SKF directly.  Describe your trouble and what you need to accomplish.  Ask whether the 99256 would support the rated rear axle weight capacity.  At least one half of the gross axle weight rating or GAWR/Rear is distributed between each rear axle shaft.  GAWR is sometimes listed on your door sticker or in the FSM by axle type.  The sleeve would need to support the weight of the vehicle—without the sleeve splitting, wearing, spinning or breaking apart.  These are questions for SKF technical support, most likely an engineering specialist.

If SKF says that the sleeve is suitable, the other concerns are: 

1) Is the axle housing bore wear concentric?

2) Is the SPEEDI-SLEEVE too thick? 

3) Once installed, will the inside diameter of the sleeve be true/round and hold the outside diameter of the bearing cup?

There is a Canadian company that manufactures the kind of sleeve used in bearing bore and casting repairs.  It is cast gray iron (40,000 PSI or so) and relatively thick.  Here is the link.  You would need to resize the axle housing bore to receive this kind of sleeve, which raises the question of axle housing stamina after resizing the bore:

http://shaverkudell.ca/wp/products/eze-sleeves-list/the-original-cast-iron-series

You shared in your initial post that the driver's side bearing cup would fit properly if there were no shims used at the left/driver's side.  It seems surprising that the cup is a loose fit just 0.030" or so (the shim stack thickness) further out in the housing bore.  Some questions:

1) What shim thickness did you need at the left side to achieve 0.006" end play?  When the brake support plate sets up flush without shims, how much further does the cup set in the bore? 

2) When you set the cup flush with the bore end, how stable is the cup? 

4) If you pull the cup out just the thickness of the shims, how loose is the cup? 

5) When the cup is flush with the end of the housing bore, is the inner end of the cup pressing against a slight step?  What seems to be stabilizing or "tightening" the bearing cup fit?

If looseness is apparent but not extreme (measure with a feeler gauge between the cup and bore), this is the Loctite/HENKEL catalog.  See pages 14-15.  Page 15 has niche products for automotive uses.  In the descriptions, axle shaft bearings are specifically mentioned.  Read through the products:

Loctite Automotive-Aftermarket-Products-Catalog.pdf

Two YouTube videos worth watching.  The second video could be just a bearing cup alone in a loose housing bore, without use of a spacer sleeve:

Returning to your original premise about using shims at the right side rear axle shaft rather than the driver's side, TEN Factory and Moser find it acceptable to shim the right side axle shaft with their preloaded bearings (one-piece axle shaft conversions).  In your case, you want to have a cross-axle end play of 0.006" or so (0.004"-0.008").  Following the TEN Factory and Moser examples, shimming could be done at either side of the axle.

The Model 20 differential spacer block is slotted and should allow ample movement in both directions.  Confirm this by installing the driver's (left) side rear axle shaft without shims.  With the differential cover removed and the spacer block visible, slide the spacer block against the installed (left side) axle shaft end.  Note how much spacer block slot space exists in both directions.  If there is ample movement of the spacer block in both directions, install the right side axle shaft and shim the backing plate to achieve the 0.006" (0.004"-0.008") end play at the right side axle. 

When establishing end play, be sure to tap the right side axle shaft firmly to seat the left axle shaft bearing and cup against the left backing plate.  (I use a plastic, sand head filled Stanley hammer for this task.)  Then pull the passenger side axle shaft outward and measure end play.  Adjust the shim thickness at the right side.  Confirm that the total end play is 0.006" (0.004"-0.008") when measured at either axle shaft.  When checking the end play, be sure that the opposite axle shaft bearing is seated and that the bearing cup is against the backing plate.  All fasteners should be torqued to specification when checking end play.

In operation, the axle shafts float laterally and split the 0.006" or so end play between the two bearings.  Each cup seats against its brake backing plate, whether shimmed or not.

Moses

[Stacey]

So here I go again, round 3 trying to reply--keep getting kick out.  I wish I had your book 30 years ago when I first got my Jeep and was young.  I have the Haynes and Chilton manuals that help a lot but I feel that they didn't go into detail on some subjects.  I purchased 2 bottles of 10ml loctite, 638 and 641.  I cut a strip of aluminum from a beer can and put it around the race and it fits snug, with 2 strips of aluminum it fits tight.  The race goes in about a 1/8" to first ridge in housing without anything around it.  I had a mechanic replace the seals about 20 or 25 years ago.  He replaced the other seals but didn't realize that it had inner seals.  I ended up taking it apart and replacing the inner seals.  I put everything back the same way I took it apart and now know it wasn't put back together right.  It had 2 shims inside the passenger side backing plate--1 fairly thick and 1 real thin.  The drivers side had 2 fairly thick shims on the outside of the backing plate which is clearly wrong.  I purchased a brake backing adapter kit that uses a dana 35 backing plate which allows you to remove the axles without taking the brakes apart.  The kit is made by Parts by George and theres a youtube video of a guy installing the kit, I noticed that his bearing race on his passenger side fits loose like my race on my drivers side, that's why I have questions about fit tightness.  All the bearing races that I ever seen fit tight in there housings.   I'm going to contact SKF about the sleeve and let you know what I decide to do to hopefully fix my issue.  I saw that loctite has a paste like retaining compound that fills in small gaps, but I'm not too sure how well that will hold up.  Thanks again

[Moses Ludel]

Stacey...Like you, I am concerned about how much space exists between the outer race (cup) and the axle housing bore.  What is the thickness of the beer can/aluminum?  When you doubled up with wraps all the way around the race/cup, what is that thickness measurement?  Ideally, you would use very thin brass or steel feeler gauges of the same thickness, either two (opposite) or four (at 90-degree points), to make the bearing cup fit snugly.

Yes, the bearing cup should be an interference fit without looseness.  The cup should be able to move in and out to adjust the bearing end play.  AMC describes the use of a lead hammer at the opposite axle shaft to tap the cup outward.

The cup is not a hard press fit into the bore.  It is also not supposed to be loose.  I expect the cup to move into the axle housing bore using a side-to-side tapping with a rawhide or plastic sand filled hammer.

I looked at the Parts by George video.  The adapter plates look well conceived if one is willing to make the backing plate changeover.  The kit and listed years of Dana 35  backing plates allows axle shaft removal with the wheel flange still on the axle shaft and the brake backing plate remaining in place.  This would make inner axle seal replacement much easier.  Interesting. 

The changeover kit and Dana 35 backing plates still do not eliminate the issue of a loose bearing cup in the axle housing bore.  The bearing cup, if loose, can still creep in the bore.  With the conversion, the race/cup would also be creeping against the inside of George's alloy (anodized aluminum?) plate.  This could wear into the plate.  George's design looks like it could work well with an axle housing bore that is concentric and provides the necessary interference fit of the bearing cup.  The cup should fit snugly in the bore.  In the video, the right side bearing cup fit is too loose.

Give me a hard figure/measurement of how thick the gap is between the bearing cup and the axle housing bore.  Is this two thicknesses of a beer can?  How thick is that?  We'll go from there.

Moses

 

 

[Stacey]

OK, thanks, I'll check and let you know, don't know when because it storming over here.

[Stacey]

The 2 aluminum thickness is .006" or .16mm.  The Skf sleeve is .011" or .30mm.  Looks like the passenger side housing opening is 65.03mm and the drivers side housing opening is 65.23mm.  These measurements are made with a cheap harbor freight digital caliper.  I also used a .006 feeler guage that slides in pretty easy, the next size which I believe was .010 was a little too thick.vv

[Stacey]

Also, the sleeve slides in snug up to the first ridge in housing, may be too tight once installed on cup.  I contacted SKF about using sleeve for this purpose, but haven't heard back yet.  I'll let ya'll know what they say and what I decide to do.  Not sure how accurate my measurements are but should be pretty close. Thanks: Stacey

[Moses Ludel]

Sounds like 0.008"-0.009" or so, Stacey.  The SKF sleeve at 0.011" thickness is actually a 0.022" reduction in the bore size.  That's more than an "interference fit".  You would not be able to get the race/cup into the sleeve.

I'm curious what SKF has to share and whether their SPEEDI-SLEEVE can handle this kind of use.  Keep us posted...

[Stacey]

Just received my answer from SKF about using the speedie sleeve---short and blunt--no not recommended, so I guess thats off the table.  Loctite retaining compound probably would work, I just can't wrap my head around glueing steel to steel.  What do you think about steel shim stock loctite in place?  I just feel like I need something to take up the slight play and maybe have some support.  The only 3 right options would be to get a new or used housing that isn't wore, have someone cut and replace the housing end or get a over sized bearing cup and have it cut down to my size, all are either expensive and/or impossible around my area.  My jeep isn't a daily driver, so I don't want to sink too much money into it and it's been running like that for no telling how long.  Any thoughts on steel shim stock?  Thanks: Stacey

[Moses Ludel]

Stacey...I sensed that this would be the SKF reply.  That's why I posed the questions I did.  The sleeve is too thin for load bearing at this level.

I searched around to see what alternatives you have here.  Some, mostly in agricultural equipment or rough machinery environments, "knurl" the inside of a loose bore with a punch and hammer.  This raises surrounding metal and creates a bumpy surface around the inside of the bore.  It will decrease the bore diameter at the raised areas, and the initial fit of the race would be tight.  They supplement this approach by applying Loctite retainer compound to the outside of the bearing race or cup.  The combination has apparently worked for these users in some applications:

https://www.mrosupply.com/blog/having-loose-bearing-race-here-is-how-to-deal-with/

https://www.grainews.ca/machinery/how-to-deal-with-a-loose-bearing-race/

However, I would not do this so-called "knurling" approach.  Machined knurling would be slightly better, but both approaches would reduce the bearing contact area within the bore...These raised areas would not cover the full surface of the housing bore.  The load would rest on the "bumps".  This might work with a shaft that has little radial load. With a weighted load like a vehicle axle, however, there is a likelihood that the raised areas would flatten from the force or weight (pounds per square inch) applied at the bumps.  The cup would loosen. 

Knurling pistons and valve guides was popular years ago.  Both practices were abandoned because the raised/machine knurled valve guide or piston skirt wore out quickly.  Knurled guides looked like they had a thread tapped through them.  The mating surface area against the valve stem was dramatically reduced.  Some argued that the guide groove captured oil and helped lube the valve stem.  This did not offset the reduced contact area, and the knurled cast iron guide wear was fast.

Weld Mold Company is a valued sponsor at the magazine and these forums.  I am in a dialog with the field service consultant.  He works with equipment and tooling repairs day in and out.  We're kicking around some ideas and possible solutions for your loose bearing cup...To be continued.

Moses

 

[Stacey]

Man, thanks for all your help in trying to figure this out.  The way it looks, I'm pretty sure I'm not the only Jeep owner that has this issue.  I'm thinking about using the Loctite 660 retaining paste and giving it a try.  I noticed on my backing plate that the bearing was starting to spin in the housing by a ever so slight groove being started around backing plate, that's kinda why I purchased Parts By George backing plate kit, since I was going to get some more backing plates.  I went ahead and ordered some Dana 35 plates on ebay to give it a try before I ran into this problem.  I can't use the kit if the bearing race spins because I see what it will do to a steel plate much less a aluminum bracket.  What about shim stock?  I read where some people used shim stock.  Is that a possibility?  Anyway--I think I'm going to put my passengers side together the correct way and wait to see what you find out about my drivers side.  Do you think I should use some retaining compound on the passengers side just for insurance even though the bearing fits real snug?  Thanks again for your help--much appreciated:  Stacey

[Moses Ludel]

Stacey...The discussion with my contact at Weld Mold brought some clarity.  Neither of us is in favor of "knurling".  We agree that brazing heat could go either way, possibly expanding the open ended bore further.  He is not a fan of retaining compounds and cited their very low actual PSI rating.  In his view, a loaded axle will pound a retainer compound and render it useless.  The compounds typically work with rotating shafts and parts that do not support the weight and torque loads of a 4x4 vehicle.

He was okay with shimming, and I'm waiting for more details on what method of shimming and shim stock he has in mind.  He also brought up the notion of placing a split collar around the outside of the axle housing bearing bore, as close to the end flange as possible.  This would clamp down on the tube end at the bearing cup.  I'm not sure where the split collar would align with the bearing cup.  The flange thickness, fasteners and the normal "stick-out" of the bearing cup would determine the split collar's location and effectiveness.

When I questioned the amount of clamp force from the two collar screws, my contact suggested using a block of metal (or a bottle jack) under the lower collar piece and placing the weight of the vehicle on the lower collar halve.  This would load the collar and axle housing;  the rest would be clamp force from the top halve when the screws get torqued in place.  This is a cold method, possibly worth a try if the axle end bore is malleable enough to crush slightly at the split collar.  If this works, it would not only prevent bearing creep, the collar would also prevent future spread of the axle housing at the bearing cup.

He provided this McMaster-Carr example of split collars.  The carbon steel variety would be less costly as an experiment.  Untested, the split collar is less invasive than other experiments:

https://www.mcmaster.com/split-collars/clamping-two-piece-shaft-collars-9/

Here are comments he made about the split collar versus shimming.  His quotes:

"If this is indeed a common issue on these rigs, I would suggest as part of the build to use the split collar starting out rather than waiting for the bearing to fail.

In order for the split collar to work, the tube would need to be scrupulously clean.  Obviously, any paint, powdercoat or rust would need to be removed and the mating edges in the ID of the collar would need to be eased. The link I attached is just for a visual to ensure we are indeed talking about the same [split collar type].

With the axle cleaned, I think a little polishing around the diameter with crocus cloth would be beneficial. With the axle prepped the collar will need the mating edges eased  with a generous radius that goes well into the ID. With an oil or grease, lube the tube and ID of the collar. Position the lower collar (with the threads) at the bottom side of the axle, place the upper half and just start the bolts… don’t tighten anything. With a bottle jack under the lower collar, jack it up keeping an eye on the gap. As the jack forces the collar up, tighten down on the collar bolts. It may be helpful to use a dead blow on the upper collar to drive it down. Don’t hit the axle tube as it may distort it further.

Once the assembly is tightened, even if it hasn’t produced the interference fit that may be optimal, it will not wallow out any more.

If shims are used [for adjusting OEM axle shaft bearing end play], I like to go with the spring steel….They won't fail under compression and go with as few (one is ideal) as possible when shimming."

I'm waiting for his remarks on where to place a shim if you go that route.  I will update when he has answered.  Note that he does suggest the use of "spring steel" for shim.

Of course, all of this is an attempt to avoid options like machining or replacing the complete axle housing.  If this were a rare axle housing and needed restoration to OEM standards, press-in iron sleeves are one method for restoring a bearing bore.  Here, however, the question of safety arises:  How much can this axle housing end be safely bored to install an iron sleeve?  Machining would likely require removal of the axle housing from the vehicle and stripping it down.  The sleeve would need inner machine finishing to accept the bearing cup with the right amount of interference fit.  By the time you do all this, finding another complete and "good used" axle, or at least another housing, would be more practical.

On the same restorative note, there are "powder metal spray" methods that can build up a bearing bore with a hard filler.  After application of the right RC hardness powder spray, the bore would be finish machined to accept the bearing cup with the right interference fit.  The "Hot Process" (brazing) described at the link below would be my preference for maximum bonding.  (A machine finish would follow.)  Cold Process would be more like a "coating" for use on headers or other metal parts without a great amount of heat applied...Cost would be plenty:

https://www.brazing.com/Products/PowderMetalSpray.aspx

Moses

 

  

[Stacey]

Thanks.  

it looks like your contacts statement about the shims, he is talking about the shims that go between the brake backing plate and the axle housing mounting flange.  I have factory shims for that.  I'm referring to cutting shim stock the width of the race long enough to wrap around the bearing race.  Maybe i'm misunderstanding.  The split collar might work if there wasn't a mounting flange in the way, but the bearing cup is about a half inch wide, the mounting flange is a quarter inch think and has a weld bead on the back side holding the flange on.   That would put the collar about a half inch from the end of housing and the cup more than likely would have to extend out of housing a little for end play.  Ya'll please don't get offended by me questioning your ideas because I have none and any idea is welcomed.  Let me know what he says about using shim stock and what kind because the 2 most common types I see are stainless steel and carbon steel.  As usual-- thanks again

 

[Moses Ludel]

No, Stacey, he did mean shimming between the bore and O.D. of the bearing cup/race.  We never discussed the factory axial/end play shims.

I wondered about how much access you have at the backside of the flange.  If the split collar fits too far inboard, as you note, it will not work.  I'm also questioning whether the tube end will crush from a split collar, even with weight placed at the bottom...Actual width of your bearing should be 0.71", check with your mic or calipers.  Verify that this is your bearing cup part number:

LM48548/LM48510 Timken Tapered Roller Bearing 1.375 x 2.5625 x 0. 71 inch [These are dimensions for the combined cone and cup.  O.D. of the cup would be 2.5625";  the shaft fit or I.D. of the cone should be 1.375".  Width of combined cup/cone is 0.71-inch.  Is that right?  The cup width, as you note, would be narrower than the full bearing width.]

Here are more ideas and prospects that have turned up in my searches:

1)  Rigid Axle uses an SKF Speedi-Sleeve (look closely at the image) in this NV4500 transmission front bearing repair.   Does this work?  They seem to think so.  This application is radial torque thrust and axial thrust without weight bearing like a vehicle axle.  Actual pound/load is unclear:  https://www.rigidaxle.com/products/input-pilot-bearing-repair-sleeve-pbg606hd 

2)  This is a true cast iron sleeve repair used in industry for restoring a bearing bore and carrying a load.  The thickness of the sleeve (outside diameter) would be a limiting factor.  If you could bore out your axle end at the bearing cup position, would there be enough axle housing stamina after boring?  Here's the approach:  http://shaverkudell.ca/wp/products/eze-sleeves-list/the-original-cast-iron-series/eze-sleeve-information-and-installation-instructions   

3)  Here are corrugated/step shim rings for ball bearing housings made of 301 stainless at C40 Rockwell (reasonably strong) with high static load ratings.  The issue would be the shim ring's "height", which again requires boring out or resizing the bearing bore to accept the shim ring.  The amount of bore resizing and the axle housing stamina after boring would be my concerns...Loctite Retainer Compound and an interference fit could assure a secure shim ring.  It might be worth discussing your project and application with the shim ring manufacturer.  Provide the bearing cup O.D. in that discussion.  The shim ring I.D. must compress (interference fit) against the O.D. of the bearing cup:

https://www.mcmaster.com/bearing-shim-rings/

4)  I am adding this third party discussion to the mix.  Some of the ideas are reasonable, some would not be applicable to Stacey's project.  I've offered my opinions, here are more, many from experienced craftsmen/craftswomen.  Keep in mind the bearing size and role of the AMC Model 20 axle shaft bearings when you consider these opinions:

https://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/forum/general/58250-how-to-deal-with-loose-bearing-fit#post1191538  [Read from the beginning of this topic to the end.]

Moses

[Stacey]

As usual--thanks again:   I have the exact brand and part numbers for bearing/race that you listed.  I'll look into your other options.  I think the cast iron sleeve is probably out of the question.  I already looked at the corrugated shim ring and like you said--it wouldn't fit in between the race and housing now as it is.  As for as the speedie sleeve, I'm getting inconsistent answers, I think the person that replied to my email from SKF wasn't a engineer.  I have a speedie sleeve that I might just try and see what happens, but before I do that, I'll read what the other people in you link are doing.  I'm just about at my wits in--maybe I'll just tack weld it in place and let somebody else fool with it next time--lol,  no I'm not doing that.  What ever I decide to do, I'll let you know and how it works out.  Thanks:  Stacey

[Moses Ludel]

Stacey...An update from my contact at Weld Mold...He notes that use of a shim should be around the full circumference of the bearing cup.  Recall that he suggested use of spring steel for the shim material.  If available, this would be fairly thin since your gap measured in the 0.006"-0.010" range with a single feeler gauge.  Two gauges at 180-degree points would be a closer measurement for a full-circumference shim.  Then, of course, there's likely out-of-round from the cup's wallowing in the bore.

The shim would need to be half that thickness, possibly less, to fill the full-circumference and create the desired interference fit.  If you try the shim approach, you'll need to experiment with a shim stock assortment, cutting up strips to fit around the cup for trial fit.  On a bright note, for static load support, the shim would have a much higher tensile than any liquid Retainer Compound. 

I thought you'd find the Speedi-Sleeve fix for the NV4500 input bearing interesting.  It begs knowing what kind of success they've actually had.  Worth knowing the tensile of the "proprietary stainless steel" in the SKF Speedi-Sleeve, but that is obviously a trade secret.  Here are SKF's facts about the Speedi-Sleeve, including how to remove the flange if unwanted:

https://www.skf.com/us/products/industrial-seals/power-transmission-seals/wear-sleeves/skf-speedi-sleeve

We certainly kicked around a lot of ideas.  Others, including industrial machinists, go down the same rabbit hole around worn bearing bores and loose cup issues.  

Do keep us posted!

Moses

[Stacey]

Thanks,  When I first considered ordering the speedie sleeve, I read up on it and it did say to remove the sleeve, you can flatten it with a hammer to loosen and remove it, so I'm thinking it might get flat spots in housing depending on where it's getting most of the force from and it does stretch to fit on different shaft sizes.  It just seem simple to install with retaining compound on cup and knock in housing.  Any way I decided to send it back and order a roll or 2 of different sizes of spring steel shim stock and give that a try.  I'll remeasure to try and get the correct sizes.  I'll let you know how it works out.  Thank for the help and suggestions:  Stacey

[Moses Ludel]

Stacey...Where were you able to find spring steel shim stock?  What thicknesses are available?

Here are some additional suggestions by my contact at Weld Mold.  You may be puzzling over how the shim stays in place during the cup installation.  This should help:

Quote:  "I’ve been thinking about how I would install the shim… obviously it will follow the contour of the tube well but how to get the bearing into the tube with an interference fit without wrinkling the shim or allowing it to move too far into the tube. 

·    Cut the shim stock 3 x wider than the bearing cup.

·    Roll the stock so that it takes on a cylindrical shape bigger than the tube when relaxed.

·    Insert the shim in the tube, making sure it is as snug as it can be relaxed.

·    Using a marker, scribe the flange level on the shim and at the point where the shim laps over itself.

·    Unroll the shim so it is flat.

·    At 2-4 places on the shim mark “fingers” that go from the scribed flange line to the outside edge of the shim.

·    Cut the shim along the flange line. These will be bent at a 90 degree angle to the shim to provide a way to prevent the shim from being pushed too far into the tube when the bearing is installed.

·    At the line where the shim laps over itself, cut the shim so that the ends will not touch when the shim is completely installed.    

·    Insert the modified shim into the tube bore, leaving a little clearance near the seal seat.

·    Bend the fingers so that they lay out along the flange.

·    Remove the shim and fully bend the fingers. It should be thin enough that it won’t break and the bend should be crisp. It wouldn’t hurt if the fingers were at less than a 90 degree angle from the shim.

·    I wouldn’t lube the back of the shim where it contacts the tube, but everything else should be greased.

·    It would be a good idea to ensure the bearing cup has a chamfer that would allow it to be started a little easier.

·    Clamps on the shim fingers would aide in keeping the shim in place. That’s why they are so long.

·    Using the appropriate bearing driver, install the bearing cup as usual.

·    Cut the fingers off the installation.

This is how I would install the shim. I have used similar methods for installing shims and  gaskets. The greatest danger is trying to be in too much of a hurry that frustration takes hold. Work slowly but deliberately, pause at each step to go over everything , make sure it is complete to the point you are at. The absolutely worst thing is getting into an install and realizing that something was left out or a step was missed."

I have thanked our Weld Mold friend for the amount of time and thought he put into this discussion...He wants you to have a fighting chance with this repair.

Moses    

[Stacey]

Thanks for the info.  The link to McCarrMaster has the shims in sheets and rolls and in just about any size needed.   I think the roll would be better since it already has the round shape.  I like his idea about how to keep it in place.  I had planned on cutting it like he said, but then using some loctite compound and a tailpipe expander to hold it in place overnight to cure.  I'll try his idea and if it doesn't work, I have extra to try something different.  Thanks again and tell your contact thanks for me, I appreciate yalls help.  Stacey

[Moses Ludel]

Your round roll choice makes good sense...Let us know how this works out...