agtedder Posted October 21, 2016 Share Posted October 21, 2016 My 1993 2wd 460 e40d pcm went bad....replaced the pcm with a used one and all engine symptoms returned to normal.....when the pcm went bad the truck went into limp mode and shifted really erratic...(early shifts)...checked harnesses,plugs, wires ....from plugs on end of harness to pcm no problems at all....replaced abs sensor in rear end and mlps....no change....I have a few codes so here they are ....622,633-dont understand this one as I do not have 4wd.....411&412...replaced solenoid pack as well but old one tested good...any suggestions???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted October 21, 2016 Administrators Share Posted October 21, 2016 agtedder...I'm guessing you cleared the DTCs (trouble codes) after installing another PCM (ECU/ECM)? The truck runs okay now but throws and stores the 622 and 633 codes? Here are common explanations for each code. Are you experiencing any shift problems (622)? If trouble symptoms do not occur, the PCM could have stored codes from the donor vehicle's powertrain/chassis: 622 (O) Solenoid/circuit failure – shift solenoid 2 – Transmissions 633 (O) 4x4L switch should be in 4×2 or 4×4 high for the test As for the 633 code, if after clearing the DTCs/codes you still have a renewed 633 code, I would suspect that the PCM is from a 4WD model; it's looking for a transfer case signal indicating whether the vehicle is in 4WD Low range or not. The PCM is different between a 2WD application and 4WD application. Here is a quick look at 1993 Ford 7.5L V-8 replacement PCMs: http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/search/Engine+Control+Module/01599/C0334.oap?year=1993&make=Ford&model=F-350&vi=1126774. The replacement PCM must match the OEM part number for your vehicle. Verify the PCM's I.D./part number and application. Compare to the original for your vehicle and powertrain. Overall, are all contacts, wiring and pin connectors at the PCM a match? 411 (R) Idle speed system not controlling idle properly (generally idle too high) – ISC 412 (R) Idle speed system not controlling idle properly (generally idle too low) – ISC What actual trouble symptoms are now present? The 411 and 412 codes indicate a rough or erratic idle resulting from an ISC (Idle Speed Control) issue. If the engine is idling okay, clear the DTCs and see whether they come back again after driving the vehicle. If a code(s) come back, I can share the troubleshooting strategy for an ISC and other devices. Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agtedder Posted October 21, 2016 Author Share Posted October 21, 2016 Thanks for the reply first of all.....I have codes 622 and 633 for the koeo test....I tested the solenoids before installing the new solenoid pack and they are all good...even the old one tests good.....all plugs wires etc are good from the pcm to the plug on the solenoid pack including the mlps and o2 sensor.... everything works fine with the exception of the tranny....it shifts into second too early or feels like it skips second all together....if I shift manually it shifts perfect....while driving the other day it did shift properly once and then back to the s.o.s....again new vss,tps,iac,mlps,plugs wires,cap,rotor,air temp,water temp sensors....I'm guessing that I should have paid closer attention to the replacement pcm but the donor vehicle was a 2wd....460...e40d...f250....without making the post a mile long I'll start with koeo 622,633....koer 411,412...engine runs perfect just shifts way too early Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agtedder Posted October 21, 2016 Author Share Posted October 21, 2016 Will check the plug and compare between old pcm and new pcm today...I have an idea but I don't want to jump ahead...maybe something we find here can help someone else... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agtedder Posted October 21, 2016 Author Share Posted October 21, 2016 Wondering also if there might be a pinout for the Pcm for 2WD and 4 WD...I think you know where I'm headed with that but like I said earlier we'll go through the process in order first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted October 21, 2016 Administrators Share Posted October 21, 2016 agtedder...Compare the part numbers for the two PCMs. Identify their respective vehicle and equipment applications. Unless you've owned the F-truck since new, I would verify both OEM numbers. Your pinout idea is great; however, you'd need to know what your F-truck chassis requires versus a 4WD model. Comparing harness part numbers could be a time saver, too. A Ford dealership's counter tech should be able to quickly let you know whether the 1993 Ford F250/350 460 V-8 PCM and wiring harnesses were different between 2WD and 4WD applications. Judging by the number of PCMs that popped up for your model and year application, there's a hint that the PCMs and wiring/pinouts are different. The pinout approach would be limited to interchange fit. Need might still exist for a re-flash of the PCM to a 2WD chassis and tune level. Even if the pins, wires and color coding were the same, the PCM itself might be looking for a 4WD Low Range signal that does not exist on your chassis. A Ford dealer or a shop with a scanner might be able to re-flash the PCM, though there would be a discrepancy between the PCM's I.D. and your V.I.N. That could be a problem... Let us know about the parts on hand and your PCM application findings...I caught your "shifts way to early" comment. Could this be symptomatic of a PCM that thinks the transfer case is in 4WD Low range (633 code)? The 633 looks for a signal from the transfer case (low range switch), which you don't have on your chassis...You changed the solenoid pack, testing good, which should have offset the 622 code. Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agtedder Posted October 21, 2016 Author Share Posted October 21, 2016 Original pcm is an f3tf12a650ka with a catch code of elf....that checks out for year, model, trans, ECT...will pull the one in it now later this evening and post the info....Moses I see that you know where I was trying to go with this so I'll disclose what I've found and that is that the solenoid output prong for solenoid #2 circuit is on pin 19 on every pcm I can find except the one that was in the truck originally(info posted earlier in this reply) if I had the pinout on both models it would be great but I'll keep going the way we're going now and maybe you see something I don't....I haven't tested the circuit with the koeo with a test light hooked up to see if the pcm even sends a ground pulse to the shift solenoid but I think it would be a good idea... How about you? I'm thinking also if I get the info off the pcm in the truck I'll be able to find out through a pinout if the solenoid circuit is the same or not...I'd say it's probably pin19 instead of the pin where it is now....you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted October 22, 2016 Administrators Share Posted October 22, 2016 agtedder...You're on the right troubleshooting track, being thorough and logical about the circuits and sensory input and output for the PCM. Pinned points on the PCM must feed to the components intended. Confirm the continuity of these circuits (wiring, plug connectors, etc.) and resistance. With the battery disconnected and the system without power, you can isolate the wiring circuits and run insulation resistance and resistance tests with a more sophisticated test tool like the Fluke 1587 or equivalent. Caution: Do not run insulation resistance, ohms/continuity or overall resistance tests through the PCM. For insulation resistance tests that charge circuits with high voltage/low amperage current from the meter, I would isolate the PCM by unplugging it to prevent damage from the voltage. Continuity tests should be on wiring circuits only; safely test through-the-PCM flow without any voltage/current applied. If you do not have access to a Fluke or other high-end meter, a simpler digital ohmmeter test of individual wiring circuits (ideally, end-to-end on each circuit for maximum resistance readings) can be helpful. Avoid damaging the PCM, these units do not tolerate raw voltage on the wrong circuit at the wrong time! Keep up the strategy...Let's see what you turn up about the PCM and catch code differences. Compare the two PCM applications and, if necessary, their respective chassis wiring differences—like the use of a transfer case with low range versus a 2WD chassis. Overlaying the wiring schematics would help here. Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agtedder Posted October 22, 2016 Author Share Posted October 22, 2016 Thanks for the advice.... I try not to ever send anything through the pcm.... these things are a little touchy about unintended voltage aren't they? Any idea where I might find the pcm or ecu pinout for these two particular models? Or just some sort of diagram?I've looked online for the original one with no luck for a specific pinout diagram....will have the other one out shortly and then maybe I can look up a pinout for that one and test with the meter to compare circuits if I can't find the pinout.. 60 wires are a lot to trace..... Hope I can find the pinouts but if not I'll do it the old fashioned way and keep testing...As I said before all of the generic pinouts I see online have the #2 shift solenoid on pin 19 and it's not there on my truck...I will test it again before I take the pcm out to make sure of the pin it's on as it's wired in the truck.. thanks for all the help so far and maybe we will come to a finding that keeps someone else from having to do all the testing etc I've done so far...pinouts really make things easy.... But hey easy isn't the only way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted October 22, 2016 Administrators Share Posted October 22, 2016 agtedder...Here are two items that will save you time. A pin I.D. for the transmission plug connector and the #622 solenoid troubleshooting procedure. Look them over: Ford E4OD Pin Connectors and Solenoid Test.pdf On the wiring for the transmission plug, the #19 pin is common to all gasoline and diesel engine F-trucks with an E4OD, according to this 1993 Ford FSM illustration. No mention of the transfer case, although I drilled down on the TC and found that it has a separate module and either an 8-wire or 5-wire harness of its own, depending upon the transfer case involved. The interface between a TC module and the PCM may reveal itself in a PCM pin schematic. On 4x4 models, the TC module mounts forward of the right door. The TC does have a speed sensor and lead. This could interface at some point with the VSS and PCM to determine low range versus high range speed of the vehicle. The Low Range Switch on 4x4s modifies the shift schedule for 4x4L position. This might provide a clue. A DTC for Low Range Switch 4x4 trouble is either 47 or your 633. Most 1-2 early shift concerns center around the VSS, speedometer and solenoid issues. You're not getting 29 or 452 codes, which would indicate a PSOM or VSS issue. Still would not rule out a speed sensor related issue when dealing with an early upshift, though VSS or PSOM would usually affect all shifts, not just the 1-2 shift. An early 1-2 shift points instead to the SS1/SS2 solenoids or anything related to solenoid function. The E4OD relies on the PCM for shifting, which includes all sensors involved with vehicle speed, throttle position and load. The PCM software programming relates to various vehicle applications, the reason I suggested comparing your two PCMs. In the end, all of this could distill to a wiring or plug connector issue, my earlier reason for suggesting the continuity and resistance tests...at least on solenoid related circuits. Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agtedder Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 Pcm turns out to be a 94 f350 and 4wd obviously ,.. . numbers are eec-iv efi-sd48e. f4tf 12a650 za g with a catch code of tago...other numbers are 64ese48n43 10777-314 4d13 maybe this will help you help me......will do solenoid tests as well and let you know what I find out. (Fyi...opened this pcm and looks like it's been previously repaired????) Pretty sure I need a pcm but we will see.. thanks again Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted October 23, 2016 Administrators Share Posted October 23, 2016 agtedder...I'd be wary of a pre-serviced PCM, at least the concern around programming/software flash. It might pay to find your application specific PCM to eliminate any quirks with either the software or possible PCM defects. Why do unnecessary troubleshooting, right? The 2WD 460/7.5L V-8 F-series PCM is available for your OEM tag numbers. To save time, I searched the CARDONE remanufactured ECC PCM numbers for 1993 F350 Ford trucks. Here's the link to the CARDONE site, worthwhile for identifying PCM/ECC units: https://www.cardone.com/find-parts/vehicle-parts-listing?make=Ford Trucks&model=F-350 Pickup&year=1993. The site has other model coverage (like the F250) listed as well, it's easy to navigate for reference purposes. Here's a quick rundown on the 1993 F350 engine/chassis applications with part numbers and live links: ENGINE CONTROL COMPUTERS - Engine Control Computer - A1 CARDONE [Reman.] 4.9 Liters and w/A.T. and Calif. Emissions and (E4OD) Transmission; w/I.D. #F2TF-AVA First Source -Call For Avail.;Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5254 4.9 Liters and w/A.T. and Calif. Emissions and (E4OD) Transmission; w/I.D. #F2TF-AVB Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5255 4.9 Liters and w/A.T. and Calif. Emissions and (E4OD) Transmission; w/I.D. #F2TF-AYA, AYB Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5258 4.9 Liters and w/A.T. and Calif. Emissions and (E4OD) Transmission; w/I.D. #F3TF-AAA First Source -Call For Avail.;Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5738 4.9 Liters and w/A.T. and Federal Emissions and (C6) Transmission; w/I.D. #F1TF-AJC, AJD Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5049 4.9 Liters and w/A.T. and Federal Emissions and (C6) Transmission; w/I.D. #F1TF-AJE Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-6543 4.9 Liters and w/A.T. and Federal Emissions and (E4OD) Transmission; w/I.D. #F2TF-AXA Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5256 4.9 Liters and w/A.T. and Federal Emissions and (E4OD) Transmission; w/I.D. #F2TF-AXB Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5257 4.9 Liters and w/A.T. and Federal Emissions and (E4OD) Transmission; w/I.D. #F2TF-AZA, AZB Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5260 4.9 Liters and w/A.T. and Federal Emissions and (E4OD) Transmission; w/I.D. #F3PF-RA Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-9041 4.9 Liters and w/A.T. and Federal Emissions and (E4OD) Transmission; w/I.D. #F3TF-YA, YB Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5755 4.9 Liters and w/A.T. and Federal Emissions and (E4OD) Transmission; w/I.D. #F3TF-ZA Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5756 4.9 Liters and w/A.T. and Federal Emissions and (E4OD) Transmission; w/I.D. #F3TF-ZB Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-6553 4.9 Liters and w/M.T. and Calif. Emissions; w/I.D. #F2TF-AUA Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5252 4.9 Liters and w/M.T. and Calif. Emissions; w/I.D. #F2TF-AUB Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5253 4.9 Liters and w/M.T. and Calif. Emissions; w/I.D. #F3TF-VA Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5753 4.9 Liters and w/M.T. and Calif. Emissions; w/I.D. #F3TF-VB Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-6550 4.9 Liters and w/M.T. and Federal Emissions; w/I.D. #F1TF-AHC Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5081 4.9 Liters and w/M.T. and Federal Emissions; w/I.D. #F1TF-AHD Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5046 4.9 Liters and w/M.T. and Federal Emissions; w/I.D. #F1TF-AHE Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-6542 4.9 Liters and w/M.T. and Federal Emissions; w/I.D. #F2TF-ARA Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5246 4.9 Liters and w/M.T. and Federal Emissions; w/I.D. #F2TF-ARB Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5247 4.9 Liters and w/M.T. and Federal Emissions; w/I.D. #F2TF-ASA Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5248 4.9 Liters and w/M.T. and Federal Emissions; w/I.D. #F2TF-ASB Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5249 4.9 Liters and w/M.T. and Federal Emissions; w/I.D. #F2TF-ATA Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5250 4.9 Liters and w/M.T. and Federal Emissions; w/I.D. #F2TF-ATB Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5251 4.9 Liters and w/M.T. and Federal Emissions; w/I.D. #F3TF-NA Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5552 4.9 Liters and w/M.T. and Federal Emissions; w/I.D. #F3TF-NB Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5751 4.9 Liters and w/M.T. and Federal Emissions; w/I.D. #F3TF-NC Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-6548 4.9 Liters and w/M.T. and Federal Emissions; w/I.D. #F3TF-TA, TB Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5752 4.9 Liters and w/M.T. and Federal Emissions; w/I.D. #F3TF-XA, XB Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5754 5.8 Liters and w/A.T. and Federal Emissions and (C6) Transmission; w/I.D. #F2TF-FA Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5288 5.8 Liters and w/A.T. and Federal Emissions and (C6) Transmission; w/I.D. #F2TF-FB Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5289 5.8 Liters and w/A.T. and Federal Emissions and (E4OD) Transmission; w/I.D. #F2TF-PA Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-4435 5.8 Liters and w/A.T. and Federal Emissions and (E4OD) Transmission; w/I.D. #F2TF-PB Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5307 5.8 Liters and w/M.T. and Federal Emissions; w/I.D. #F2TF-EA Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5285 5.8 Liters and w/M.T. and Federal Emissions; w/I.D. #F2TF-EB Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5286 7.5 Liters; w/I.D. #F2PF-BCA Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-9054 7.5 Liters; w/I.D. #F2TF-AA Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5225 7.5 Liters; w/I.D. #F2TF-JB Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5298 7.5 Liters; w/I.D. #F2TF-KA Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5300 7.5 Liters; w/I.D. #F3TF-DA Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5542 7.5 Liters; w/I.D. #F3TF-FA Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5544 7.5 Liters; w/I.D. #F3TF-KA Units are pre-programmed at the factory. 78-5550 This should help...Note that each CARDONE remanufactured ECC has been "factory programmed". Assume they have the OEM software flashes. Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agtedder Posted October 26, 2016 Author Share Posted October 26, 2016 Just an update on solenoid tests etc...solenoids are good but ss2 does not receive the high voltage from the pcm only the low voltage side... So for all those folks that had or have the same problem I would say 99.44% sure it is as you said Moses a pcm problem....FYI folks...all the numbers on pcm's must match in order for the pcm to work properly with no modifications, otherwise you end up with my dilemma and that being that I have a 4wd pcm for a 2wd truck and although the engines are the same the drivelines are different not to mention that the pcms are from 2 different years....if all wiring,sensor (vss,tps,mlps,rabs,psom, shift solenoid)and circuitry tests are done independent of the pcm then that only leaves one problem...The PCM...having said that Moses I'm close to tracking down the problem for the ss2 circuit failure....seems there is a ground on one year that is not on another....could be why I don't get the high voltage pulse from the pcm to ss2..... anyway I think that the original problem has been addressed and through thorough testing it has been determined that the pcms are not compatible and a new pcm that matches my application would be the correct fix...hope this helps someone else in the future....Moses I will continue my investigation into the pcm to find the differences between the 2 and let you know what I come up with....a $.50 wire jumper beats a $500 pcm any day of the week....if I need to open another discussion for this let me know and again thanks for all the great help and advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted October 27, 2016 Administrators Share Posted October 27, 2016 agtedder...I'm pleased that you've narrowed the trouble. PCMs must match the chassis and equipment. Good luck at finding either an easy wiring solution or the correct PCM by part/I.D. number. Used should work when the numbers match if you need to save expense...Let us know what "cures" the troubles and that your E4OD is functioning on par. Looking forward to your participation at the forums! Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agtedder Posted October 28, 2016 Author Share Posted October 28, 2016 Will update as soon as the new pcm/ecu gets here... I look forward to maybe helping someone else with their troubles...thanks again for all the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted October 28, 2016 Administrators Share Posted October 28, 2016 agtedder...Thanks for bringing these issues to light. This is helpful for others, what our forums are about! Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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