JohnF Posted January 19, 2014 Share Posted January 19, 2014 While waiting for the transmission parts to come in I disassembled the Transfer case. It went pretty easy. The only issue I had was when I removed the intermediate shaft I could not remove the intermediate gear as the book says I could. I had to wait until I slid the main shaft back a bit to remove the gear. The intermediate gear hit the side of the case. Not sure what I did wrong . I tried it in every gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted January 20, 2014 Administrators Share Posted January 20, 2014 The intermediate gear is often supported on needle (loose) bearings with hard spacer washers. (Check this link for a list of these parts, the 99-cents must be per roller!) Typically there are 48 rollers. Sometimes you'll find a pair of caged needle bearings instead of free needle rollers. With the needle rollers, the spacer washers can wedge against worn thrusts, causing a bind. In this instance, the gear could get stuck in the case. Look at the case, thrusts, bearings and the intermediate spacer. If there's wear, was that your bind issue? Worn thrusts are usually the culprit. By the way, I like your work style—well organized and great parts layout! Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 Moses, moving the gear was not the issue, it moved freely. What happened is when I went to lift the gear out there was not enough clearance between the input shaft gear and the case for the larger gear to come out. I know its something I am missing because I see you do it in your book and others on the internet. If you look at the 1st photo of the tc the gear was hitting the very top (narrow part ) of the case. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted January 20, 2014 Administrators Share Posted January 20, 2014 Ah, I see an issue when looking at the photos again...Did you remove the brake drum assembly with its companion flange and also the front output yoke first? This may allow the lower shaft and gear set to move laterally slightly, which sounds like what you needed. While the case looks like the casting has a bulky radius, this is not the problem. (If it were, you could remove a slight amount of material with a die grinder and carbide bit; however, this should not be necessary.) I believe you needed to remove the companion flange (U-joint) yokes and E-brake drum before the intermediate gear. On assembly, the output flanges and brake drum get fitted last, after installing the intermediate gear and other gear sets with end caps, reversing the recommended disassembly sequence. This should provide the space for the normal assembly procedure. When setting the intermediate gear inside the case, needle bearings loaded, use a dummy shaft slightly smaller in diameter than the intermediate shaft and slightly shorter than the gear's width (just within the thrust washers). You can partially assemble other parts before pulling the gear into position if you prefer. When installing the intermediate shaft, the trick is to keep needle rollers in position (if not using caged bearings on the intermediate gear) when you install the shaft. I load and coat the stacked needle rollers with a viscous chassis or wheel bearing grease to help hold them in place. On your T86 cluster gear and this intermediate gear (or any other assembly using needle rollers), the rollers stay in place by "keystone effect". If the bore is concentric and close to tolerance, needle rollers in good condition (not worn in diameter) should stay in place one you insert the last needle roller in the set. The grease also helps prevent the bearings from dragging and falling inward as you carefully align and insert the shaft. If you load the bearings with a light film of viscous grease, you'll find it much easier to assemble. To help you and other members and visitors, I pulled a first-generation Jeep factory shop manual from my library shelf and copied the transfer case section for the Model 18 transfer cases, including your CJ V-6 era model (both twin- and single-stick shifter types). Between this and my Jeep CJ Rebuilder's Manual: 1946-71 (Bentley Publishers), you should have all the backup needed: Jeep Model 18 Transfer Case OEM Rebuild Steps.pdf Trust this helps all 1941-71 Jeep and Willys 4x4 owners... Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted January 20, 2014 Author Share Posted January 20, 2014 That makes sense Moses, I did remove the E brake and yoke first but did not remove the input shaft yoke. When I did the intermediate gear slid right out. Glad that is cleared up. I was worried about that for the reassembly. Thank you for the manual download that will come in handy. Soaked some parts in Simple Green degreaser overnight Cleaned them up and sprayed with WD 40 to prevent rust Kind of weird ! the Simple Green turned some of the parts black, don't know what that's about Parts are coming this week, sandblasting and painting the case this weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted January 21, 2014 Administrators Share Posted January 21, 2014 This looks like a fun project, John! You'll have a very dependable, classic CJ when you finish, the V-6 is a winner. I have a good deal of information on the Buick V-6, both odd and even firing types, your nail head 225 plus the later 231 (3.8L) and 252. Buick took this design to the limit, and it was a G.M. mainstay powerplant for decades. The Simple Green approach is new to me, although it sounds much healthier than a petroleum distillate/solvent parts washer—I know firsthand and can still identify the scent of the original Safety-Kleen solvent from a block away! My aqueous-based parts washing cabinet can run industrial strength citrus derivative soaps. I'm currently using Goodson Tools' PJS-50 detergent and running the water/soap solution at about 145-150 degrees F for optimal results. A washing cabinet changed my work life dramatically, I've had the machine since the mid-'nineties, it's paid for itself ten times over. Your project reminds me of the CJ-5 I built for the Jeep CJ Rebuilder's Manual: 1946-71. I'd still be scraping down that frame, powertrain and axles if it hadn't been for this washing cabinet. For those interested, my washer is a Walker (very well built though they are no longer in business) with a 2-hp/single phase 230V pump, two 4500W heating elements, a 1000 pound capacity turntable and 45 psi nozzles. The heated solution is approximately 53 gallons. Bought mine new, made sense at the time. If you stumble across a similar design, a used machine in good shape, consider buying it, especially if you do any volume of automotive work on older rolling stock like 4x4s! Goodson also makes PD-50 and a PD-10 (small quantity) multipurpose degreaser (not for heated jet washing!). You'll like the cool automotive machine shop tools at the Goodson website, click on the image for a glimpse! As for the Simple Green turning the gears and such black, that's likely the chemical reaction between the citrus concentrates, water and the impregnated, ancient gear oil chemistry...Shouldn't cause a big issue, all of the shafts, gears and such are case hardened and resistant to corrosion and etching. The beauty of the nozzle/jet washing cabinet, preheated to 145-plus F before placing parts inside, is that critical components like iron castings will "flash dry" after washing by simply cracking open the cabinet door and waiting a few minutes before removing the pieces. No oxidation/rust issues...I need to demonstrate the Walker in a video, it's really a time saver...I'm very grateful! Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 Moses, I am back from vacation and back at it. Unfortunately I had a mishap on the front bearing cap. When removing the front main-bearing seal. Behind the front main bearing seal is a support ledge for the bearing to set against. I got that ledge instead of the seal and break it off Below is cap before Below is after showing broken support ledge Is this a " structual " part ? Do I need to get a new cap? There is still enough of the broken ledge attached where I can slip the broken ledge back in and it will stay behind new seal. JF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted February 22, 2014 Administrators Share Posted February 22, 2014 That's frustrating, JohnF! Post a few reasonably lit close-ups of the damaged section and the chipped section. Take a photo from each side (front and back views). I'll share my opinion about the cap's reuse...You can make an informed decision. Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 This is what it supposed to look like ( broken pc resting back in ) With the pc removed showing end of broken pc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted February 23, 2014 Administrators Share Posted February 23, 2014 JohnF...This bore only supports the seal...The shaft runs through the casting bore without any contact. The break is so clean that I mistook it for a washer/backer at first! There is a shelf there, so the piece would likely stay in position with an OEM type double-jacket seal. The modern replacement seal will typically be a thinner-walled single jacket. That provides little downward or seating pressure at the jacket seating position. This is not a lost piece, though. I braze and silver braze, and my first reaction is to reach for the oxy-acetylene torch. With care, clean parts and the broken "washer-looking" piece seated at its original position, you could place a nice braze right at the junction between the piece and the bearing cap's seal bore. Brazing temperature should not distort or crack the casting if you concentrate the heat at the junction and do not overheat the whole piece. Use just enough localized heat to properly flow the bronze or silver rod. Flux coated would likely work unless you prefer flux powder. Pre-cleaning before brazing must be very thorough. Note: I'd wrap the piece in a Kevlar or fiberglass welding blanket after brazing to allow slow cool down. This would be a permanent repair. The nose bore only supports and centers the seal. There's a curiosity point to this damage, though. I'm not convinced that you broke this loose. It looks like the casting ear has been welded or brazed already: See the middle and lower photos, looks like the "arm" has been repaired. Or is this "factory"? The case has a lot of black paint covering something, maybe a repair from long before your work? Does this broken seal seat casting pre-date your work? Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 It's factory. My father purchased the Jeep when it was only a few years old. No work has been done to that. I found a housing on Ebay for $ 25.00. I might just get it for pc of mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted February 23, 2014 Administrators Share Posted February 23, 2014 For $25, go for it, JohnF...Sounds like factory welds on that casting from the known history. If you get a moment, wire brush the paint off that zone I describe. Let us know if that's a factory weld...very interesting! Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Starting the assembly, First I laid everything out so I am not fishing for parts when I need them. Started by installing speedometer gear Then I put in bearing and snap ring in front cap I used a seal installation tool to seat the bearing Bearing and snap ring installed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Next I slid in the output clutch shaft into the same bearing. Next the short shift fork and shaft Next the output clutch gear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 When I painted the case I painted the whole thing then took an orbital sander and sanded the mating surface's this way I can see the high spots Next the longer shaft with the shift fork goes in I used the old bearing and a deep socket to put on the new bearing on the output shaft Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Next the sliding gear goes into the case and on the shift fork Output shaft gear next Next slide the output shaft thru the gears Next I slid the thrust washer onto the shaft making sure the tab goes into the groove in the shaft that goes all the way back thru the gear Next the snap ring Washer and snap ring installed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Next I slid the bearing onto the shaft. Gently tapped it in with a deep socket Next the bearing cup Got it flush with the case, the bearing cap will seat it the rest of the way. Temporarily put the bearing case on with the gasket, no sealer, so I can check the end play in the shaft. I will take this off later to seal the gasket and put on for good. Very important to snug the bolts in a cross pattern so you don't twist the case and break it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted March 4, 2014 Administrators Share Posted March 4, 2014 Fantastic photos, JohnF...Trust you're pleased with your work so far...Interesting to recall how stout these components were and compare them to today's "lightweight" chain drive units. Aside from the side drive design shortfalls and frictional losses, these Model 18 Spicer transfer cases could handle a 250 horsepower V-8 with ease. Your 225 V-6 should be a breeze for your fresh rebuild... Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Next I fussed with the shims for a bit until I got it right, Needed to do this to clean out the paint in the threads. Should have done it to all the bolt holes before starting. After some curse words I got the end play right 0.005 with the rear cap torqued to 35 lbs Speedometer gear slid onto shaft, I realized I could have left this off as long as I put it on before installing the oil seal Shims sprayed with copper spray-a-gasket and allowed to get tacky Bearing cap installed and torqued to 35 lbs. The only bolt I used sealer on at this point was the short one, i need to put the E brake backing plate on later after I blast it and get it painted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Thanks Mose's More to follow. Let me know if you see something that should be done different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Removed the front cap and installed the seals putting in interlocking pin Where it should be when recessed in shaft I used gasket shellac from Permatex to seal the gaskets Bearing cap installed again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Next I put the roller bearings into the intermediate shaft I put a wood 1 3/16"dowel 2 5/8" long into the shaft to hold everything in place, started with first washer I coated the inside of the shaft with assembly grease to hold the bearings in place. I put the 24 bearings in next, then another washer, next 24 bearings then final washer Used the assembly grease to hold thrust washers in the case, tabs go into the grooves in the case to prevent them from spinning, bronze side to shaft. I used dowels on each side to hold in place Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Placed the shaft into the case then slid dowels in a bit to hold it in place. Put some oil on the shaft and slid it in. If all goes right it should push the other dowels out Shaft in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted March 4, 2014 Administrators Share Posted March 4, 2014 JohnF...Looks like you did use sealant on the rear bearing shim stack gaskets, right? I use either a thinner shellac-like sealant or Gasgacinch on shim stacks. Gasgacinch spreads evenly while wet, so does a thinner "shellac" like Permatex 300D, spray High Tack, etc. The aim is to allow the sealant to squeeze/spread flatly and not interfere with an accurate setting of the bearing load. Sealant should be thinly and evenly applied, on the bolt threads, too, then tightened and torqued before the sealant dries. This prevents leaks and weep. Just a comment...Your detailed photos are immensely helpful to others, JohnF...Thanks! Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 JohnF...Looks like you did use sealant on the rear bearing shim stack gaskets, right? I use either a thinner shellac-like sealant or Gasgacinch on shim stacks. Gasgacinch spreads evenly while wet, so does a thinner "shellac" like Permatex 300D, spray High Tack, etc. The aim is to allow the sealant to squeeze/spread flatly and not interfere with an accurate setting of the bearing load. Sealant should be thinly and evenly applied, on the bolt threads, too, then tightened and torqued before the sealant dries. This prevents leaks and weep. Just a comment...Your detailed photos are immensely helpful to others, JohnF...Thanks! Moses I saw on several sites to use the copper form a gasket spray on the shims. I sprayed on a few coats then let it get tacky. Besides whats a Jeep if it doesn't leak a bit :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 Next I installed the poppet balls and springs in the front bearing cap. Before I installed these the shafts moved easily. After, I couldn't budge them, I hope that is correct since they are designed to keep the shafts from moving around freely. The order the go is ball, spring, cap. Rear cap seal installed Locking plate for main shaft I hated to cover up all this nice work gasket shellac then oil pan gasket then more shellac I couldn't find what to torque the oil pan bolts so I torqued to 25 lbs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted March 4, 2014 Author Share Posted March 4, 2014 This is art to me I'm a bit weird I guess but I love turning rusty greasy things new again. This is how far I got. More to follow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 I painted the driveshaft yoke and put on the felt seal Used an impact gun to install washer and nut A little reminder to me to torque the nut after the case is mounted and I can get some leverage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 It's the little details that go a long way for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted March 5, 2014 Administrators Share Posted March 5, 2014 Assume you coated the output shaft splines with a thin film of gasket "shellac" as noted in my book? This keeps gear lube from wicking out the splines and yokes. Copper coat on the shim stack works nicely...When coating gaskets, wipe up any drips and excesses. This is a gear drive unit without a large risk of blocking passageways with sealant, but on engines or modern chain drive transfer cases, you don't want excess sealant floating around in the unit and clogging an oil pickup screen. There's a balance between adequately coating the gaskets, which is obviously a must, and excess...There's also the cost of the gasket sealant...Are you using Permatex Super 300D or equivalent? 25 lb-ft torque on these 5/16" stud pan bolts is plenty, 18-20 lb-ft would be about right. Leave them alone now. The older cork pan gasket wouldn't tolerate more than 15 lb-ft or so before splitting, you have an advantage with the cut composition gasket. I would re-torque/check the bolts at 20 lb-ft after a short in-service interval, these gaskets generally change shape slightly, and the bolts often require re-torque. Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted March 5, 2014 Author Share Posted March 5, 2014 Assume you coated the output shaft splines with a thin film of gasket "shellac" as noted in my book? This keeps gear lube from wicking out the splines and yokes. Copper coat on the shim stack works nicely...When coating gaskets, wipe up any drips and excesses. This is a gear drive unit without a large risk of blocking passageways with sealant, but on engines or modern chain drive transfer cases, you don't want excess sealant floating around in the unit and clogging an oil pickup screen. There's a balance between adequately coating the gaskets, which is obviously a must, and excess...There's also the cost of the gasket sealant...Are you using Permatex Super 300D or equivalent? 25 lb-ft torque on these 5/16" stud pan bolts is plenty, 18-20 lb-ft would be about right. Leave them alone now. The older cork pan gasket wouldn't tolerate more than 15 lb-ft or so before splitting, you have an advantage with the cut composition gasket. I would re-torque/check the bolts at 20 lb-ft after a short in-service interval, these gaskets generally change shape slightly, and the bolts often require re-torque. Moses Yes, I coated splines on inside of yoke with Permatex gasket shellac. Here is the copper form a gasket I used Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted March 6, 2014 Administrators Share Posted March 6, 2014 Good job! The Copper Spray-a-Gasket is popular for cylinder head gaskets... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted March 6, 2014 Author Share Posted March 6, 2014 My E brake drum looked like it was in perfect condition until I hit it with the blaster and found a crack...more money to spend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted March 7, 2014 Administrators Share Posted March 7, 2014 Again, this E-brake drum could be fixed with either Weld Mold 26C high tensile brazing rod (after V-ing or round carbide tip grinding to the root of the crack) or actual TIG cast iron welding with Weld Mold Company's 700 and 750 filler rod. You found that used parts were cheaper than this kind of repair in your earlier need, perhaps you'll find a "good used" drum...If welded or brazed, the drum will require re-surfacing and truing, which may be the case even with a used replacement drum. Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 Got the trans. rebuilt and mated with the transfer case again. Shifts great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnF Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 Destroyed 2 of these shift rail plugs when I took apart shift housing. Not sure where to get replacements Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted March 12, 2014 Administrators Share Posted March 12, 2014 I looked at several vintage Jeep sources, you likely did, too. Surprised not to find these tin caps, they were available years ago. Checked the Crown catalog, a primary supplier to others, no listing. Try a call to Jon Compton at Border Parts, Spring Valley, CA. Jon has nearly a half-century of experience with vintage Jeep parts. If anyone has these caps, Jon would. Otherwise, Jon will help network to a source. Border Parts' contact information: Border Parts, Jon Compton, Owner 3875 Bancroft Dr, Spring Valley, CA 91977(619) 461-0171 Please share my regards with Jon... P.S.: I-H also used the T90/T86 transmissions in the earlier Scout models. Another possible parts source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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