Stub Axle to Spindle Side Play

[Full Service]

Team, how much side to side play should be expected between the axle spline end and the spindle with the manual 4wd cover removed?

[Full Service]

8 minutes ago, Full Service said:

Team, how much side to side play should be expected between the axle spline end and the spindle with the manual 4wd cover removed?

Front axle outer spline end and inner side walls of the spindle

[Moses Ludel]

Full Service...If I'm understanding your question, you have either a splined drive flange or manual locking hub removed from the wheel hub.  You want to know how much play there should be between the stub axle shaft and the spindle with the flange or manual locking hub removed?

CJ Jeep vehicles have either a bushing or a needle bearing and seal at the inner end of the spindle.  The needle bearing or bushing supports the stub shaft at the inner end of the spindle.  Either a bushing or a needle bearing (left in illustration below) provides support and centers the inner end of the stub axle.  The outer splined drive flange or free-wheeling/manual locking hub provides the outer support for the stub axle. 

On a CJ front axle, the play that should be of concern is at this inner spindle bushing or needle bearing.  You can reach into the open steering knuckle with a pry bar or large screw driver and lift the axle shaft U-joint up and down.  You're looking for play between the bushing or needle bearing and the inner end of the stub axle shaft.  Moving the stub axle sideways or "radially" at the open steering knuckle end will indicate whether you need to replace the spindle inner bushing or needle bearing and seal with a readily available and inexpensive rebuild "kit".  (The image below is "Crown" parts.) 

You will likely need to reinstall the drive flange or manual locking hub to support the outer end of the stub axle shaft while you check for inner bushing or needle bearing wear.  Otherwise, the outer end of the stub axle shaft will wobble and the shaft will move inward and outward.  This would throw off your test results.

There should be very little if any stub axle shaft movement sideways/radially.  You're checking for a worn bushing or needle bearing or wear at the stub axle shaft where the bushing or needle bearing makes contact with the shaft.  If your spindles have needle bearings, you also need to be sure that the roller needles are not dry, rusted or seized up, which is common:

 

Does that answer your question?

Moses

[Full Service]

12 hours ago, Moses Ludel said:

Full Service...If I'm understanding your question, you have either a splined drive flange or manual locking hub removed from the wheel hub.  You want to know how much play there should be between the stub axle shaft and the spindle with the flange or manual locking hub removed?

CJ Jeep vehicles have either a bushing or a needle bearing and seal at the inner end of the spindle.  The needle bearing or bushing supports the stub shaft at the inner end of the spindle.  Either a bushing or a needle bearing (left in illustration below) provides support and centers the inner end of the stub axle.  The outer splined drive flange or free-wheeling/manual locking hub provides the outer support for the stub axle. 

On a CJ front axle, the play that should be of concern is at this inner spindle bushing or needle bearing.  You can reach into the open steering knuckle with a pry bar or large screw driver and lift the axle shaft U-joint up and down.  You're looking for play between the bushing or needle bearing and the inner end of the stub axle shaft.  Moving the stub axle sideways or "radially" at the open steering knuckle end will indicate whether you need to replace the spindle inner bushing or needle bearing and seal with a readily available and inexpensive rebuild "kit".  (The image below is "Crown" parts.) 

You will likely need to reinstall the drive flange or manual locking hub to support the outer end of the stub axle shaft while you check for inner bushing or needle bearing wear.  Otherwise, the outer end of the stub axle shaft will wobble and the shaft will move inward and outward.  This would throw off your test results.

There should be very little if any stub axle shaft movement sideways/radially.  You're checking for a worn bushing or needle bearing or wear at the stub axle shaft where the bushing or needle bearing makes contact with the shaft.  If your spindles have needle bearings, you also need to be sure that the roller needles are not dry, rusted or seized up, which is common:

 

Does that answer your question?

Moses

Yes it did.

Moses, thank you so much for taking the time to answer me...your book got me through the 1st time removal of the spindle to get at the stub axle to replace a bad ujoint. Gob bless my plastic dead blow hammer on getting that spindle out as well as replacing age old ujoint caps. My spindle bearing is bad as well as the ujoint I replaced. The play you mention in your answer got me to the spindle bearing. I have it pulled now and am awaiting the kit you diagram above. Caution to others...when I checked wheel bearing play on my driver's side front wheel It felt a little loose....when I got to the bearing I found the locking tab on the lock washer, for the lock nut, was not bent. Needless to say a half turn of the bearing nut stopped the play...the tab on the lock washer is bent against the lock nut....this time. 

[Moses Ludel]

Full Service...Really glad this worked out...The spindle bearing is a common replacement item due to loss of grease, contamination from water crossings and seal deterioration.  These bearing(s) get largely ignored.

Be careful when removing the caged needle bearing.  Avoid damaging the spindle.  A jawed slide hammer puller is the common removal tool, though this is tricky.  Avoid scarring up the spindle.  Drive the bearing out and in evenly.

Good that you caught the loose wheel bearing lock nut.  There is a procedure for adjusting the wheel bearings correctly.  Glad my book has been helpful...What year is your CJ?

Moses  

 

[Full Service]

Moses;

  1983 Laredo 4.2, TF999 Transmission. The slide hammer was the way to get the bearing out...it was a challenge. I used your rag wrap /vise method to hold the spindle. After install and reassembly there is still some side play at the ujoint but it is comparable to the drivers side so it is normal or my stub shafts are worn, I expect it is normal...here's the story about chasing a suspension noise which got me to the bad ujoint and spindle bearing in the 1st place. I was getting a thumping noise on the passenger side on gravel roads. After checking under the dash and the passenger suspension many times (including jumping on the bumper) I found the ujoint and spindle bearing and fixed them but the noise persisted.  Afterward, I found the culprit by accident when shaking the hood. The jeep is old and the hinge pins on the hood are worn...The noise was the hood shifting forward and back on loose hinge pins on bumpy roads. A cut piece of fuel line mounted on the hood edge to add a little tension when closed did the trick. 

[Moses Ludel]

Nice Jeep model, Full Service!  Glad you worked through the spindle bearing issue.  With the right grease and new seals, you should be set.

I like the hood fix.  New hinges are available if you want to go that far.  The 1980-86 models still have ready access to parts, you have a solid model to work with...How do you like the TF999?  They're rugged and require nothing more than periodic band adjustments and fluid/filter changes.  The 904/999 works well in these models.  No overdrive, but your axle gearing is likely tall with the automatic.

Moses

[Full Service]

Moses;

   The TF999 is a tank. I had it rebuilt because it was leaking. The tech said it was very good and needed only adjustments. On another note, my engine must have been swapped sometime in its life with an older 75ish 4.2L. Do you know where I can get a Rocker Shaft for a 4.2? All my research comes up empty. Mine is worn but I had to reuse it after a engine rebuild.

[Moses Ludel]

Full Service...Good to know that you like the TF999.  Chrysler RWD 904 and A727 derivative transmissions were rugged and well designed.  My '05 Ram 3500's 48RE (the last overdrive spinoff from the A727) has survived 186K miles behind a 5.9L Cummins turbodiesel and still does the job.  I made some essential in-chassis upgrades and drive the truck in ways that have preserved the transmission.

AMC 232/258 rocker shafts and arms began disappearing in 1972 and show up as late as 1974.  Melling still offers the replacement rocker arms (part number MR812, $17.44 + tax each at Summit Racing) though the rocker shaft has crept out of listings. 

In searching for your part, I stumbled onto this current ad at eBay.  This is a somewhat rare NOS (TRW) replacement shaft with all new rocker arms:

 https://www.ebay.com/itm/185708724805

Usually, if the shaft is shot, so are the rocker arms.  If you only need the shaft, here's a company that can either rebuild your shaft or accept your core for an exchange shaft.  Your shaft number is R-55 in the listings:

http://www.rockerarms.com

Moses

 

[Full Service]

Thanks Moses...you're a gem!