oryj94 Posted June 15, 2020 Share Posted June 15, 2020 Hi, I'm working on a 32RH and I'm trying to replace the cooler lines coming out of the tranny. I've got the tranny out of the Jeep and was degreasing the exterior. I used some 1/4 NPT plugs to plug the ports while I cleaned it. They started to thread in by hand but bound up pretty quickly just finger tight. Fine for keeping crud out while I cleaned but if I need to replace those fittings I don't think they're really just 1/4 NPT. Are cooler lines a different type of thread? The original quick connect fitting looks possibly tapered? Also wondering if Jeep still sells this quick connect fittings? I didn't see any that matched online. Jamey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted June 15, 2020 Administrators Share Posted June 15, 2020 oryj94...The ports on aluminum or iron automatic transmission cases have historically been flare seats to accept flared tubing and a flare nut. These are not pipe threads, and the fitting threads are not tapered. This should be a flare nut thread. Use a pitch gauge to determine thread pitch. Measure carefully to assure whether you have metric or U.S./SAE threads. Confirm the diameter...Tradition is U.S. flare thread but confirm. The recessed nose extension of the fitting is the space a flared tube end would occupy when using steel tube and a flare nut. If you look at the end that mates to the port, it should have a taper like you would find with a flared tube and nut. There should be a matching tapered seat in the transmission port. This may be confusing with the quick-coupler and hose; however, these ports were originally designed for tubing and a flare nut. This is why the fitting is sometimes called an "adapter", as you are connecting a coupler hose to a flare seat in the transmission case. This is called a "Quick Connector" by Mopar. Here is the part number, you should have two of these fittings on the 32RH. Try finding the part by this Mopar number: 04617517 CONNECTOR, Quick Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oryj94 Posted June 15, 2020 Author Share Posted June 15, 2020 I've attached a photo of the old fitting that came out of the transmission case and a new dorman fitting part # 800-610 that cross referenced the mopar part 04617517. The dorman quick connect fitting says its a 1/4 x 18 NPT thread? It seems to thread into the transmission case fine so I guess that's the size? The quick connect end is different though but says it will fit 3/8 tubing. I haven't tried the quick connect end yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted June 16, 2020 Administrators Share Posted June 16, 2020 oryj94...The part number I furnished has been superseded by 52028629 in Mopar listings. The superseded fitting (see Mopar links below) apparently adapts the transmission case to a 3/8" flared end tube and flare nut. This Dorman fitting is clearly 1/4"-18 NPT going into the transmission case and seems to match your original Mopar fitting's taper as well. From this camera angle, the original fitting does appear 1/4-18 NPT and tapered. Please take pictures of the transmission ports and also both ends of these two fittings, facing straight toward us...It appears that the outer (unseen) end of the "connector" is likely a flare seat with threads that accept a common 3/8" tubing flare nut. As for the threads at the transmission port end, they do look slightly tapered (pipe thread) from this angle. That's why I'd like to see pictures of the actual ports in the transmission case. If they are "through ports" without seats, both your original fitting and the 800-610 Dorman fittings are clearly tapered 1/4"-18 NPT thread as Dorman notes and as you originally suspected. https://www.moparpartsinc.com/p/Jeep__Wrangler/CONNECTOR-Oil-Cooler-Tube-375-Tube-x-25-Thread-38--38-Quick--Quick-Connect/42364415/52028629.html https://www.mymoparpart.com/p/Chrysler__/CONNECTOR-Oil-Cooler-Tube-375-Tube-x-25-Thread-38--38-Quick--Quick-Connect/42364415/52028629.html https://www.dormanproducts.com/p-10641-800-610.aspx [Dorman 600-810 part description] Here's the kicker...Below is a line drawing from the 1994 Mopar YJ Wrangler parts listing. Mopar calls these two connector fittings "Quick Connector". That seems consistent with your original part. I zoomed into the original illustration, and the fittings look like your original fitting. The Mopar supersedure part and the Dorman part both connect to a 3/8" flared end tube with a flare nut. Is that correct? Apparently, this is a "universal" repair measure that expects the installer to use a double-flare end 3/8" tube with a flare nut—or if there is enough room, cut off the original quick coupler, install a flare nut then double-flare the tube end with a tubing flare tool. Does that sound right? Do your cooling lines have hose coupler or quick coupler ends at the transmission? Are the lines steel? So, the problem at this point is the Mopar superseded part, which is essentially the same as the Dorman 800-610. This is not like your original fitting that accepts a quick coupler. Mopar apparently abandoned the original fitting concept and expects installers to eliminate the quick coupler end on the cooler line. If you don't want that, you would need to find an original (New Old Stock/NOS) fitting with the original 1994 part number I provided. Or source these quick connector fittings from a recycled vehicle. What is the concern with the two original fittings? Are the threads stretched? If you wire brush the sealant from the tapered threads, will the fittings work? Did you damage the transmission end quick couplers on the two cooling lines? If the original lines are steel tube, use the Dorman or superseded Mopar connectors and either 1) cut off the tubing coupler, deburr, install a flare nut then double-flare your original tubing end or 2) install a section of 3/8" steel tubing (preformed DOT brake/fuel tubing can be found at NAPA and other retailers with double flare ends and nuts already installed in a variety of lengths). Wherever you cut the original cooling line will require a flare nut then a double-flare end...Mate the new repair section tube to your existing line with a flare seat union connector. Some try to use compression fittings with ferrules to avoid double flaring steel tubing; brass compression fittings and ferrules are not rated for transmission cooling line pressures: https://www.wadefittings.com/resources/Wade_Technical_Specifications.pdf I use the double flare method with quality flare tools like when doing brake work. In-depth information about flaring: https://www.4wdmechanix.com/video-series-how-to-flare-automotive-brake-tube-fuel-lines-and-cooler-tubing/ https://www.4wdmechanix.com/how-to-fabricating-restoring-and-repairing-hydraulic-brake-lines/ The transmission case fittings use sealant on the threads: Keep sealant away from the fitting end to prevent sealant from entering the transmission. If you flare the tubing ends, make sure that no burrs or debris enter the transmission...Torque to spec and no tighter, this is an aluminum transmission case and NPT can split the case if over-torqued. Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oryj94 Posted June 16, 2020 Author Share Posted June 16, 2020 Thanks for the info. The dorman fitting is a quick connect also but has a different style of quick connect that is hidden inside the fitting. It says it will work on 3/8 tubing so I think it might work. I haven't tried to connect it to my tubing yet since I don't have a removal tool yet and I don't want to mangle it with a screwdriver like I did the original quick connect. Is it advisable to try to use just 3/8 flexible hose for the entire cooling lines? I've found 1/4 x 18 NPT to barbed fitting that would probably work if I just went with hose but I don't know if this is advisable? There are two problems with the original lines. One is that they are crimped onto a short section of hose near the radiator that are leaking. Second, the original quick connect is pretty grimey and I mangled the little wire quick connect piece that holds the quick connect in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted June 16, 2020 Administrators Share Posted June 16, 2020 oryj94...Whole new approach...So, the original tube ends with the ridge will fit directly into the Dorman fitting (shown above at left) and latch in place once the ridge is past the springs? That would make better sense as a replacement for the original connector—no modifications or tubing fabrication. Make sure the tube ends are clean, no burrs or nicks, they will be sealing against the rubber seal you see inside the Dorman fitting. Are you changing out both fittings or just the one? I guessed that you had damaged the coupler(s) trying to remove the lines without the release tool. You've likely figured out the need for the tool by now, no point in dwelling on that one, you're not the first or last one to have that happen. A simple Lisle 37000 tool works on most applications for less than $10 at Amazon. There are upgrade tools and niche tools for transmission cooler lines only. The Mopar OEM tool is ridiculously expensive and unnecessary, you simply need a tool that works. Be grateful for the Dorman coupler fix. So now we're making sense with the Dorman 800-610 and Mopar supersedure part. They each fit without the need to modify the OEM cooling lines (unless they are damaged). So, your lines are undamaged and will seat and seal okay? Clean them up, use a vacuum pump to draw out fluid if necessary, to prevent contaminating the transmission. You don't need sealant on the Dorman fitting, it has a sealant coating already. Just don't over-torqued the fittings or you'll have a real issue when the transmission case splits. Yes, these are tapered pipe ports in the case, 1/4"-18 NPT at the transmission end. The tapers have spread force. On the other hand, do torque the connectors to specification, or you will have leaks. Sorry we went around in circles. Without seeing both ends of the fittings, I couldn't be certain about the pipe thread or parts relationships. Sounds like you're on the home stretch now. My magazine video work schedule has ramped up, and tomorrow will be the last day the forums will allow new postings or replies. You will continue to have access to any and all existing posts, replies, exchanges and PDF downloads at these forums. There simply will not be new exchanges after tomorrow evening. Let me know you're squared away... Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted June 16, 2020 Administrators Share Posted June 16, 2020 oryj94...I just caught the rest of your questions. If the fittings or hoses are leaking at the radiator end, you have two choices. One would be trying to find a new or used complete set of transmission cooling lines that are functional. The other would be fabricating lines. One the latter approach, be aware that transmission cooler pressure is high enough to demand transmission cooling line hose. AN fittings and braided line is the high performance approach and could be overkill for your use and budget. Summit Racing is full of AN approaches. They also have affordable solutions that include this Derale trans cooler bulk hose: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/der-13017 Derale, B&M, Hayden, Advance Adapters and others have transmission cooling lines and fittings. Go to the Derale catalog online, I like their approach and near OEM installations. Not so with Hayden, Flex-A-Lite and B&M, each is cheap and "universal". Make sure the fittings and any clamps are suitable for a transmission cooler system. You don't want leaks or loosening worm gear clamps. European EFI style clamps work better, there are upgrades from there including band clamps used with crimper tools. If you're on a budget, hose and common fittings could work for at least portions of the system. Hose needs to go over barbs or a "bubble" on any steel tubing. The bubble is created as a half-flare with a flaring tools. This is how I create a bubble flare with a simple flaring tool; it's a partially formed flare intended to not nick or cut the interior of the hose: I like the use of steel tubing. Any use of steel tubing does need flex at the radiator end, although that was not necessary in the day. A single piece steel tube connected directly at the radiator and transmission, but today's plastic radiators have made the somewhat rigid approach unacceptable. If you use steel for part of the system, use double-flare, preformed brake grade 3/8" tubing from NAPA and others. It's inexpensive yet high PSI rated, and you can attach female flare seat barb fittings to the flare nut ends of the tubing. With some creativity and time in the Weatherhead or Eaton drawers, you could make this work. Hose all the way, however, risks chafing, deteriorating hose over time, heat damage and so forth. The only pure hose lines would be braided stainless, secured where appropriate, and that's costly with AN fittings. There's another approach, often overlooked, that I have used on power steering systems: NAPA and hydraulic shops can fabricate whole lines or restore problem lines. They have high force crimp tools that can repair or reconstruct an OEM hose or replicate it. They use rated hydraulic line and quality fittings. At least worth a quote, may be practical to repair your existing line damage at the radiator end of the lines. They likely have quick couplers and connectors or could do a workaround. Also possible is finding pre-made power steering pressure side hoses with steel sections that could be spliced to your existing lines. We can kick this around further... Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oryj94 Posted June 16, 2020 Author Share Posted June 16, 2020 Thanks, I think I'll probably make some lines AN lines. So the forums will be closed? Is there plans to reopen them at some point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted June 16, 2020 Administrators Share Posted June 16, 2020 oryj94...AN lines are top drawer but consider my other suggestions if AN is too costly. The forums are too time consuming at this point for the limited sponsorship. Video production demand is up. I may consider a subscriber/member blog down the road if sponsorship is available. There is a large amount of searched material at these forums, traffic is high. Guests and members will continue to have access to these archival resources. However, postings and exchanges will be on hold, there's simply no time for it. I'll send you an email access to help you through this project... Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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