Moses Ludel
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Interesting, Nevada ATV, I was unaware of this service. Does Spot Locator Services charge for bandwidth use? The $500 is not a deal breaker for a phone that actually works at the remote areas we travel. We once went from Fallon, Nevada to Delta, Utah during a Moab trip (Highway 50) and did not get major cellular phone service that entire stretch. Since that time, it's gotten better, there are "pockets" of coverage (never where your tires go flat, be assured!).
What does the $25 monthly fee include? I would, like you share, consider data streaming to address the magazine's social media and forum questions while on the road or in the backcountry camping. This is bandwidth, of course. I'm concerned about the cost involved.
Moses
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Thanks for the update and clarification, Nevada ATV! As I've shared, the magazine's Honda XR650R motorcycle is a highway legal and registered dual-sport conversion with insurance and all. This entitles use off-pavement as well, just like street legal 4x4s. There is an annual renewal of the license plate sticker. ATV and UTV vehicles with original "off-highway" labeling are not currently eligible for a "conversion" to on-highway use at Nevada.
Our 1984 Honda XR350R motorcycle is now Nevada OHV permitted and also titled with a Nevada OHV title. (This is a different title than the on-highway motor vehicle title issued for the Honda XR650R.) The process for getting an OHV permit was straightforward and simply involved paperwork available here: http://www.dmvnv.com/pdfforms/ohv001a.pdf [vehicle purchased prior to July 1, 2012]. There is also an OHV inspection and VIN verification form that must be submitted. I had the local Honda dealership perform a VIN inspection that used this form available online: http://www.dmvnv.com/pdfforms/ohv002.pdf.
Note: There are numerous Nevada forms related to OHVs. Click here for the Nevada DMV/OHV official page that lists the Nevada OHV forms. Once registered and stickered, there is an annual renewal fee that must be paid as Nevada ATV describes. For good measure, I added a notarized statement of the motorcycle's history, including the recent years that the bike had been in storage.
I also elected to get a title issued on the Honda XR350R motorcycle. This requires a bill of sale from the previous owner. When we purchased the bike used in the mid-1990s, OHV titles were not issued at Nevada. In recent years, Nevada titles on OHVs were issued for several years then not issued, so many owners did not receive a title from the previous owner. To title the ATV or dirt motorcycle, a bill of sale is required, which most owners receive when they purchase the OHV. Dealerships usually issue a Bill of Sale, required at Nevada for many years. You should always get a bill of sale during a private party purchase, with the year, make, model and VIN on the statement. Use the Nevada OHV Bill of Sale form currently available.
For official details on Nevada OHV permit registration and titling, see this site/PDF: http://www.dmvnv.com/pdfforms/ohvregtitle.pdf. For the official Nevada OHV Bill of Sale document, you can download and print the DMV/OHV form: http://www.dmvnv.com/pdfforms/ohv006.pdf. If you are currently buying a used ATV or dirt motorcycle, make sure you and the seller fill out this form together, it will save a lot of time! Fill out this form even if there is a title provided.
In the case of my 1984 Honda XR350R, there was a hand written bill of sale from the previous owner. (At the time, that was enough, no titles were issued on OHV dirt bikes at Nevada. The DMV might accept this kind of document for bikes purchased under such circumstances years past.) To expedite the process and eliminate any issues, I located the previous owner, and we used the current Nevada OHV Bill of Sale form with notarized statements. I also submitted the history statement, including dates and circumstances of the purchase. The important paperwork is the Nevada OHV Bill of Sale form, filled out, signed and notarized (not required, I elected to do this).
Like you share, Nevada ATV, it's my belief that the extra $28 for the OHV title is well worth it. Every motorized vehicle and trailer we own has a title. For many years, Nevada did not issue titles on OHVs (ATVs or dirt motorcycles). This titling process provides clear ownership and simplifies resale later. Although the cost saving approach is an annual Nevada OHV permit only, currently $20 per year, the official DMV title of ownership is a one-time fee and worthwhile. I submitted a check for $48 to receive both the first Nevada OHV Permit and an official Nevada OHV Title.
Important to add, the Nevada OHV permit, like the California Green Sticker, is recognized in other states. Before traveling to other states with your ATV or dirt motorcycle, confirm whether there is a reciprocity agreement between Nevada and that state. If recognized, you can use your Nevada OHV Permit in that state. I can take the XR350R motorcycle with its Nevada OHV permit into California for off-pavement use. I need to confirm whether the Nevada OHV Permit is honored by Utah for use at places like Moab. This bike is my optimal four-stroke for single track trails, and I do plan to ride it in addition to the Honda XR650R desert enduro motorcycle!
Nevada ATV, do you know which states are currently under an OHV permit reciprocity compact with Nevada?
Moses
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Marc, this sounds like a gross vacuum leak, not necessarily vacuum hose leaks. The knocking could be lean fuel mixture at one or more cylinders, Marc.
At the mileage, I would review our other case of #1 misfire, as this may foster an "Ah, ha!" moment. Try this, we have quite a lengthy discussion and troubleshooting stream at: http://forums.4wdmechanix.com/topic/73-40l-jeep-six-cylinder-1-misfire-trouble-code/.
I believe the symptoms could be one device that's causing overlapping symptoms and even throwing codes. The TPS switch could be involved, but I'm not one for "parts replacement" trials. Let's get a clear sense for what's not working. Vacuum leaks, TPS, vacuum hoses (seeping or crossed), a MAP sensor and so forth—each could be possibilities. We'll be systematic in our approach.
Moses
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Ron...The crankshaft position sensor on a high mileage 4.0L can pick up oil from a weeping rear main seal. You may not have a defective CPS but rather a dirty one. Before tackling the CPS, though, move to the battery and grounds. Since the engine starts to act up as you release the clutch pedal and load the engine, have you checked the battery condition? The battery terminals and cables?
A dead or dying cell or poor connection at the battery terminals can create a misfire under load condition. The engine seems to run okay when not under load because the rpm is high enough for the alternator to step up the voltage and keep the ignition and injectors functioning.
I would run a load test on the battery. (The safest way is out of the vehicle at a testing station like an Auto Zone or NAPA.) Clean the terminal ends and also check the battery ground and engine to body and frame (unibody) grounds. At this mileage, ground contacts and terminals often get corroded. This is the negative side of a D.C. system, so a voltage drop will result. This can also cause a misfire under load or stalling.
The PCM/ECU is looking for stable battery voltage, typically in the 12.4V or higher range. An alternator check would be advised if the voltage output on your dash gauge indicates less than 13.5V as engine speed picks up. This could approach 14.6V or so with a discharged or defective battery.
Pulling on the headlamps with the engine off would also reveal a battery in poor condition, or poor connections, if the lamps go dim quickly. Slow cranking is of course a symptom.
Try the battery and connections before crawling under the Jeep to check the crankshaft position sensor (CPS). It's helpful to know whether the alternator is functioning well, too.
We'll work through this...
Moses
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Well, I rode the Honda XR650R motorcycle this morning, not unusual in itself, as I've been trying to rack up miles on the top-end engine rebuild in time for Fall riding. One thing was unusual, though. At 204 miles since the rebuild that included L.A. Sleeve machine work, the bike has reached a whole new performance level!
The magazine's Honda XR650R top-engine teardown and inspection.
My morning riding venue is typically rural highways, both two-way traffic two lanes and divided highway four-lane. I've been on dirt with the Michelin T63 tire tests and have much more planned, this Fall will be extensive dual-sport riding both on- and off-highway. Customarily, these cooler morning rides have been intended to run the engine up and down the light load and rpm scale, nothing stressful, just steady rpm stretches mixed with changes in speed and load.
The beginning to present: Our XR650R evolves from a desert bike with a dual-sport conversion into a bona fide video filming platform and road/trail adventure profile bike! Take a ride with us. Still in the break-in phase, this cycle is already "badass"!
I've continually added weight to the bike, though this was not my original plan. Sleek and race-bred, these bikes look quite "cool" stripped to competition desert enduro form. In our case, though, the dual-sport conversion and additional TCI Products racks with Nelson-Rigg bags have been a necessity for carrying our video filming equipment. The motorcycle is highly versatile and can also serve as a "support" bike for backcountry group riding at remote areas like Moab or the Black Rock/High Rock Canyon.
All of that said, I should probably weigh the bike "wet" with the racks and bags (at least empty) to answer a fundamental question: Why is this bike evolving into the most badass of any dirt bike I've ever owned and ridden? Despite the add-on items, and my current dry weight of 178-180 pounds, the Honda XR650R just keeps getting stronger! This motorcycle clearly has the best roll-on throttle, from idle to higher rpm, of any desert enduro cycle in its class. This performance applies in any gear, at any throttle position opening and regardless of roll-on road speed! No wonder these motorcycles dominated the long Baja races until Honda pulled them...
Note: Sprocket gearing is 14/48 (stock N.A. enduro form) with the tires described in the Michelin T63 tests. Some XR650R models, like Australia export, have taller gearing. This bike tops out at over 100 mph, and that's plenty, thanks! Worth noting, with this gearing, that speed comes up remarkably fast.
Collaboration with L.A. Sleeve reaped big results. The cylinder head rework, iron/moly/chromium cylinder liner plus quality replacement parts help account for the bike's impressive performance! A Hot Cams Stage 1 camshaft adds to the impressive torque output.
Part of this is tune, which includes the official N.A. Power Up Kit ("uncorking") and use of a Hot Cams Stage 1 camshaft with L.A. Sleeve head and cylinder work. I'm looking forward to comments from Greg and David about the performance of their Honda XR650R machines, as the acceleration and on-tap torque—idle speed up—of the magazine's machine is quite impressive. The camshaft obviously plays a role, and we need to compare this machine with two XR650R models that are "uncorked" and without the camshaft upgrade. Frankly, this Stage 1 camshaft that eliminates the auto-decompression mechanism on the camshaft has no downside. I can start this engine cold or hot in one or two kicks, using the handlebar decompression lever for manual tick-over.
So, I'm waiting for others to jump into this discussion. How does the Honda XR650R compare to the best contemporary 450cc and 500cc class four-stroke enduro bikes? Is the XR650R new enough technology to excel over a field of later bikes with less displacement yet higher compression and EFI? Would anyone with another make and model desert enduro bike care to comment? I'd like to objectify my experience, as frankly, this bike really does act badass!
Moses
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Funny you say that Keith...I've been a professional light truck wrench since the late 1960s. At that time, we serviced and rebuilt very conventional trucks, and in my first professional role, I was a light and medium duty truck fleet mechanic. (Yes, journey-level professionals were called "mechanics" then, not "technicians", and I'm okay with either moniker.) The fleet was 1949-64 vehicles, all breaker point ignitions, drum brakes, grease-able chassis points or at least steering linkage and drivelines, manual linkage transmissions, vacuum modulators on the automatic transmissions, very fundamental to work on. Trucks were considered utility vehicles and had to be serviceable with accessible components.
I've witnessed and been hands-on with the complete evolution of vehicles. Frankly, today's "light trucks" are no longer fleet engineered for ease of service. In fact, this is the era of electronics and passenger car accessories, including your '94 Ford with MPI/EFI and a transmission controlled by electronics. You're right, it's a matter of "degree". Electronics did not end ease of troubleshooting. The code you pulled from the '94 is actually very helpful. OBD (onboard diagnostics) can be quite useful, though certainly not always able to pinpoint a problem or offer a solution.
What I consider ease of service is when you can still access components in the repair and rebuilding process. When the heater core of a 2012-up Jeep JK Wrangler takes a dealership professional 8 hours to replace, at the expense of tearing half the under dash apart, I have trouble calling this traditional Jeep utility model a readily serviceable vehicle.
Like other professional techs and fleet operators, I'll always expect my trucks to be serviceable. Bad enough that cars have such a poor track record for service/parts access. Visualizing my head downward under the dash with feet over the seat tops while servicing the heater does not appeal to me. I'm sure that dealership techs doing warranty work (been there, done that, GMC truck line and warranty mechanic in the early S/T-truck era) would fully agree.
Moses
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Thanks for the update, Ron...You hint about fuel volume, and that could be the issue. Pressure sounds okay...Unlike later MPI applications, your Renix system has a fuel filter along the chassis rail toward the tank. (You likely know this, and if not, consider the filter a routine replacement item.)
1987-90 XJ Cherokee 4.0L Fuel Lines.pdf
Fuel Line System for a 1987-90 Jeep XJ Cherokee 4.0L Six
A clogged filter restricts fuel volume. Pleated paper filter matrix likes to swell in the presence of water, and that's a good thing on the one hand, it stops water from reaching the injectors. On the bad side, you can get nothing more than one tankful of watery fuel, and the filter plugs.
If you suspect the filter could be the culprit, change it. If that's the cure, put some de-icing or alcohol-based fuel additive in the tank to pick up remaining water. This may or may not clog the filter again, as the water bonds with the alcohol and travels through the fuel system. Be prepared for more water swelling at the filter.
Let's go from there...
Moses
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Great when this works out well. This is an instance where Ford's OBD troubleshooting was spot on! The 624 code coupled with your shifting symptoms gave us a positive and useful lead...
Good job, Keith. Looking forward to your participation at the forums!
Moses
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Hi, Ron at copper! Misfiring under load from what you describe, somehow related to the depression of the clutch. Check the crankshaft position sensor at the back of the engine block (driver's side, top of bellhousing around 11 o'clock when looking from the rear of the engine). Remove the sensor and clean it with electrical contact cleaner. Check the wiring and connections, too.
Does the engine have very high mileage? I'm curious about the connection between depressing the clutch and releasing it. This has either to do with engine load or possibly the crankshaft float in the block when you load the clutch and flywheel. Try the crank position sensor first. If that does not cure the issue, let us know. I have other troubleshooting suggestions that will only cost time, not money, if you have the tools.
Moses
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Keithfromphilly...The 624 code can indicate either:
1) A "short circuit that can cause minimum EPC pressure (minimum capacity). Limits engine torque (partial fuel shut-off, heavy misfire). Flashing TCIL." or
2) "An open circuit that causes maximum EPC, harsh engagements and shifts. May flash TCIL."
Sounds like you have the open circuit, as this does fit your transmission symptoms. You likely have either an EPC circuit "open", a shorted circuit or an output driver issue. Check the wiring, connector plugs and the output driver. The problem will be somewhere in that circuit or the output driver. Don't spend additional money on solenoids at this stage, they're probably not the trouble.
Moses
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Mary, who made the console? Is this a genuine Jeep factory unit or aftermarket? If it's universal aftermarket, you'd be on your own.
I pulled the entire 2000 Jeep XJ Cherokee model year accessories section from a Mopar genuine parts catalog. There was no console offered as a Mopar Accessory. Here is a PDF of that section:
2000 XJ Cherokee Factory Accessories.pdf
I dug deeper and found the factory overhead console that was original equipment on some 2000 model year Jeep XJ Cherokees. Here are the details:
2000 XJ Cherokee Factory Overhead Console.pdf
The parts manual also has these pages about the headliner and upper trim moldings. Note that there are a number of headliner part numbers that reflect different trim and accessories:
2000 XJ Cherokee Factory Headliner and Trim.pdf
As for mounting hardware above the headliner, there must be something to support a factory console. Whether the actual hardware is there or just the sheet metal plates for installing the hardware is not clear. A shop manual would only cover how to remove the factory console and put it back in place. The manual would relate to that work as factory equipment.
The only sure way to know if there is existing hardware would be to carefully lower your headliner after removing the trim moldings. Or, you could see if there is a recycling yard with an XJ Cherokee like yours, either equipped with the console or not. If the headliner can be dropped or is already down, you could confirm what kind of provision Jeep made for mounting the overhead console.
It's hard to imagine that the headliner itself supports the overhead console. More likely there is a provision for through-hardware that goes into sheet metal supports. Let us know what you find here.
The PDFs clarify the parts layout. Be very careful when you fiddle with the headliner and overhead wiring. There is the existing wires for your overhead dome and reading lamp system. Removing the headliner, and especially drilling holes, would not be advisable unless you know exactly where the wiring is above the headliner. Again, it may be helpful to carefully drop your headliner and see what's up there!
Moses
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Good approach, David...I always prefer working with OEM original parts that have not been disassembled yet. You may be able to restore this shock without a lot of fanfare.
How many miles or kilometers are there on this machine? Would you rate it as "good condition" beyond the upper engine damage from poor air filtration?
Moses
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Mike...Basics like the bellhousing patterns should be the same, but I'm deferring to Biggman100 as to whether the transmission will work with the 4.7L V-8. There's still the wiring changes, even with two factory engines for the Dakota. PCM interface with the transmission may present differences, too.
As for the stamina of the 42RLE, it's been well tested in Jeep vehicles, including the Liberty and the Wrangler. Seems reasonably strong, however, you're planning to pull a trailer in addition to sticking a 4.7L V-8 in front of it. Again, curious if Biggman100 has experience with this.
Here's an interesting insight from ATS. They beef up the 42RLE for the Jeep applications. There appears to be a laundry list of needed upgrades, which your local shop may be addressing also. This is not confidence inspiring as far as the stock 42RLE goes, though after a rebuild on this level, these units should be quite strong. You might compare ATS and your local shop's approach to see how each stacks up:
http://www.atsdiesel.com/ats2/productdetail.asp?p=3069408320
Moses
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David...First-off, beware of the Google search engine's strong like for the magazine site and these forums! This makes our comments more available to family members and spouses, too. Enough said.
As for sensible return on investment with a Honda XR650R motorcycle purchase and restoration, it all begins with the value you place on the motorcycle. For my purposes, the XR650R is the best enduro dirt machine built to date, yet the XR650R is not "for everyone". Looking for a tight-cornering, flickable motocross bike that is a featherweight with an engine built to its limits? Get a CRF450R (or a CRF450X for the desert). Want an enduro bike that has more torque and thunder across its entire power band, from idle to its advertised redline? Get an XR650R in top shape—or rebuildable. Want a bike to scale the Erzberg 'Iron Giant' or tackle 'King of the Motos'? The XR650R's weight and galloping strides would beat the bike and rider to death on this kind of gradient and rough rock. Get a KTM or Beta two-stroke. Want to win the Baja 1000 or 2000 without a whimper, astride the ultimate desert scrambler? Get an XR650R. For flat-out desert and reasonable single-track, if you like to wrestle with a big thumper, my pick is the XR650R. And I take the point about "wrestling" seriously, challenges like sand traps and rock fields. I'm back at the gym with earnest, following a strict resistance exercise and cardio protocol to be in the best possible shape for riding this beast at fast-paced, remote desert.
I combed the Western U.S. for months, trying to find the right "buy" on an XR650R. Given the wild card of a used bike's condition, especially a dirt bike, I was ultimately grateful to find my bike. It was listed for $2000 on Craigslist, the best price to date locally. I drove over 80 miles to look at it, and the bike would not start. The story was good, and I took a credible owner's word that the cycle likely had a fuel system problem. I offered $1700 and loaded the bike on my trailer. After giving myself the equivalent of a heart stress test trying to kick start the bike, followed by a week of basic tuning and a range of fuel system and Baja Design kit repairs, I did the leak down test that pointed to the top engine damage. After carefully considering the real worth of a restored bike with a fresh top-end, several diplomatic exchanges with the previous owner led to a renegotiation of the price to $1050. He refunded the difference.
This was a unique situation and one that depended upon ethical guys putting our heads together. The owner had been willing to buy the bike back and even reimburse me for parts purchased to that point. We deliberated about the "real value" of the bike with the engine needing a top-end rebuild. I encouraged him to price a top-end rebuild at a Honda dealership. Since I prefer to do this work myself, we reached a more than reasonable solution.
Footnote: The cycle had less than 1000 original miles, according to the previous owner. Dirt bikes have no odometer (beyond the constantly resettable trip odometer), so I took this at face value. There were no indications of abuse or immediate repair needs beyond the upper engine, which was the victim of poor air filtration. It is a known fact that bad filtration can quickly wipe out 4-stroke intake valves and damage exposed Nikasil cylinders. The drive chain and sprockets appeared original and showed negligible wear. For this machine, ridden in Texas brush country, chain and sprocket wear would occur by 1,000-1,500 miles of desert pounding. The engine's torque is simply amazing, very capable of wearing and peening over the crowns of sprocket teeth...To be clear, I wanted a Honda XR650R, and this one seemed otherwise "right"! I was very familiar with the machine at this point.
So, obviously, we need to begin by placing an intrinsic value on the XR650R motorcycle, whether the bike meets our needs or not. I, for example, wanted to experience some of the magic that Johnny Campbell, Steve Hengeveld, Andy Grider, Mouse McCoy and others knew from their Baja victories and groundbreaking accomplishments. There were rumors that these top riders were highly reluctant to move to the CRF450 models that Honda abruptly thrust onto the scene. Realistically, Honda was forced to come up with a bike more competitive at motocross courses. Desert enduro racing is only one aspect of dirt competition. The XR650R is a "Big Red Pig" for good reason: It has features like a dry sump oil system, liquid cooling, stout brakes, a tough frame plus more wheel and tire mass. It's abrupt replacement, the CRF450, by every dirt magazine account, has required factory improvements every year since its introduction. You can count the "upgrades" to the Honda XR650R, over its entire 2000-2007 (some include 2008, too) build period, on one hand.
The XR650R is so versatile that a cult has developed around the supermotard conversions. A search online reveals a strong following for these street and dirt/asphalt racing thumpers. Building a road bike from an XR650R chassis and powertrain provides an incredible power-to-weight ratio. Our youngest son had a Yamaha YZF-R6 that I rode on rural, deserted highways at speeds I won't disclose. While the XR650R has an incredibly strong engine for tractor-like pulling, it is not the refinement, handling and massive peak horsepower found on tap with a YZF-R6 or its equivalent Honda, Suzuki or Kawasaki. I have followed Moto GP and Superbike racing (attended at Laguna Seca) with great interest over the years, and the XR650R supermotards are for a unique kind of riding and racing, yet another market for an XR650R.
So, begin by valuing your bike and its intended, purpose built design. For the all-out North American "off-highway" version (uncorked, please!), the question is whether you justify putting money into a motorcycle that with reasonable tuning, a camshaft upgrade and a piston/rings change can dominate a Baja race or BITD race like "Vegas to Reno". I know a local, unsponsored rider from Yerington, Nevada, who has run this Nevada race many times on his XR650R. He much prefers it to the CRF450 class bikes.
My research prior to purchasing an XR650R began with watching the uncut "Dust to Glory" DVD a dozen times over several years. I fast-forwarded through all of the 4-wheeled vehicle action and focused on the XR650R riders. Then I combed the internet forums and every other kind of information base to get into the "Honda XR650R culture". I watched "Long Way Round" and "Long Way Down" several times each and became thoroughly convinced that an adventure-touring monster that weighs twice as much as a Honda XR650R is not for my kind of desert riding. I talked the ears off two business friends, one at Oregon and the other at Northern California, who each ride street legal XR650R conversions. One rides every kind of Oregon trail, and he previously owned a Honda XR600R. The other rides on lengthy dual-sport trips with fellow XR650R owners in a loosely organized group. They ride both mountain and desert environments on paved highways, dirt single-track and two-track roads. Each commutes to work on his XR650R when practical. I knew that a dual-sport, street legal XR650R conversion would meet my goals.
I turned my attention to the price of admission for being an XR650R owner. I concluded that the best used XR650R with a dual-sport conversion would be in the $2500-$4000 range, depending upon upgrades, apparent condition and the usual crystal ball guessing involved when purchasing any pre-owned motorcycle. After going through the top end of these engines as we're doing, I will emphasize that buying the bike in this condition and renegotiating the price was actually a good thing. Given the mounting age of these motorcycles and injecting some sound reasoning, I now believe that the majority of these used bikes could be within a hare's breath of needing a top end rebuild. An objective purchase should be governed by this consideration. Assume that if the used engine does not need a top end rebuild immediately, it will in due time.
Note: My son Jacob's acquisition of a 2003 XR400R with a documented 134 miles on it could be substantiated by its showroom condition. It was a most unusual find. In all of my months of searching, there was one XR650R for sale online with that kind of history, allegedly less than 6 total hours of documented riding and sporting a Baja Designs conversion. The asking price for that cycle was $6500. I'm certain it sold to someone bent on owning one of these iconic motorcycles, likely selling for this price or close.
Now, you also need to consider the condition of your motorcycle. You are knowledgeable about motorcycles and can assess, at least as an experienced rider, whether the cycle needs a lot more work to be reliable and functional. If you can make an objective assessment and put into perspective what it will actually cost to complete the project, you can make an informed decision about your return on investment—and how far to commit here.
In the U.S., a dual-sport equivalent in good condition with a fresh top-end (receipted proof), good rubber and operating properly (clutch, brakes, suspension, etc.) is worth a minimum of $3000-$3600, depending upon add-ons. Often, a well equipped cycle will bring up to $4500. Make a sound assessment of your motorcycle and go from there. You've invested now and neared the point where you can operate the machine.
As for riding gear, you obviously went with top equipment, and great if you did. (I'm not trying to alienate your wife here!) Safety is always a priority with motorcycling, you cannot overdo it. If you buy cheaper equipment, it will not last and could even fail when you most need it. You have family responsibilities and need to be present and intact.
Moses
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Biggman100...Thanks for the research on the 3.7L piston source! The photo tells me that the stock 3.7L piston is lacking skirts. The rings, if you consider the overall spread from top ring to bottom ring, is not severely impaired by design. What scares me is the short overall height of a piston without skirts. The rings that high on the piston allow the piston to rock with the short/lacking skirts. The short spacing between the top of the top ring and crown lends itself to shearing the piston head loose as the piston rocks, especially under the forces of supercharging boost. Perhaps the rings could benefit from lower positioning, but if this is not possible, your suggestion about aftermarket pistons is worth pursuing. A forged piston, even with the higher ring locations, might survive reasonable boost if the compression ratio is dropped to 8:1 or so like the Buick GN engines. A bigger piston gain would be longer skirt length, maybe the aftermarket forged piston takes that into account. The reason for the skirt issue could be the connecting rod angle, this engine is a close to "square" bore/stroke arrangement (93mm x 91mm) by design.
I found a rundown on the 3.7L SOHC V-6: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysler_PowerTech_engine. It is a "PowerTech" series derivative of the 4.7L V-8, both intended to replace the aging pushrod Magnum 'LA' engines. The blocks are iron, heads are alloy, so this is not radically different than the Buick 3.8L/231 GN engines and the Buick 4.1L/252 V-6 (both representative of the even-firing engine design era). The displacement of the 3.7L is only 226 cubic inches, not earthshattering for a build-up. I'd get more excited about a 4.3L GM Vortec (Chevrolet Division) pushrod V-6 design for supercharging. Each of these engines is a 90-degree with erratic balancing issues at various harmonics, and the use of a counter-rotating balance shaft is common on later designs. The 4.3L GM Vortec introduced this change in the mid-'90s L35 engine, I had the opportunity to walk that engine assembly line at Detroit on behalf of OFF-ROAD Magazine.
The connection between Buick engines and Jeep is the odd-firing 225 Dauntless all-iron, pushrod V-6 in 1966-71 CJs and the Jeepster/Commando. There is also the late Kaiser era use of the bulletproof Buick 350 V-8 in the J-trucks and Wagoneers. I maintain a warm spot for Buick Power. On my shelf is a wonderful book I acquired when writing the tech columns for OFF-ROAD, Popular Hot Rodding and Guide to Muscle Cars in the '80 and '90s: Buick Power by GM Buick Division engineers. The book dates to the introduction of "Stage II" performance developments and an extensive list of performance parts from GM. At the book's introduction, they were producing 6,200 V-6 engines per day! Any questions about odd- or even-firing Buick V-6s? Just ask!
Moses
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I did some basic research on aftermarket supercharger results with the 3.7L V-6. The interest in boosting power in the Liberty did spur some turbocharger and supercharger experiments with this engine design. The net result, apparently, was that boost on a stock engine and piston was more than the pistons would handle. The story that circulates is that the 3.7L has piston rings positioned high on the piston, and if you turbocharge or supercharge this engine, the pistons will fail. Several prominent supercharger experts were allegedly involved in these tests. These anecdotal kinds of comments need confirmation and further research.
Dropping compression is a practical consideration when turbocharging or supercharging engines. Simply put, the normal compression ratio is determined with a naturally aspirated induction system. Since this air enters the engine strictly by manifold/cylinder vacuum, the compression ratio is dependent upon ambient air and atmospheric pressure. As an example, a naturally aspirated engine that develops 10:1 compression at sea level may develop, let's say, only 8.5:1 compression at 8,000 feet elevation. Though this may not be the actual compression difference, we could do the math around the atmospheric pressure changes and their effect on compression at various altitudes. As a footnote, an engine that requires 89 or 91 octane fuel at sea level may operate without ping on 87 octane at 6,000 feet elevation. This is due to the drop in effective compression at the higher altitude and "rarified" air.
Similarly, if we supercharge or turbocharge an engine, we "boost" the atmosphere, depending upon the waste gate settings and how much pressure or boost we choose to apply above the intake plenum. We might, for example, boost the cylinder volume and air-fuel to the point that the compression reaches 12:1 or higher with a stock engine that originally had only 9.5:1 compression. This added air-fuel volume, compressed into the cylinders, places extra "inertial loads" on the lower end of the engine (as Biggman100 notes from his Subaru experience). You can, quite literally, blow the lower (short block) end of the engine apart.
Do some types of V-6s handle turbocharging? Here is a maximum output 3.8L Buick V-6 built for an '87 Buick Grand National drag racing car. Note the extensive modifications and output, yet the compression ratio is only 8.2:1—before the boost! The Buick is an iron block monster with unparalleled stamina (apparently unlike the Chrysler 3.7L Liberty and Dakota engine). Read this account. I'm not sharing this to encourage a similar build for the Dakota 3.7L V-6 but rather to show the out-and-out performance potential of a classic iron block V-6 pushrod engine: http://www.superchevy.com/features/0602gmhtp-1987-buick-grand-national/.
As a footnote to the "boost" and altitude, there's an old trucker's legend about Loveland Pass in Colorado. In the day, before the Eisenhower Tunnel, the altitude was so high at Loveland Pass that trucks could not climb the pass without superchargers. The emergence of supercharging and turbocharging on diesel engines coincided with the growth of the trucking industry and need to compensate for altitude changes. And that is a significant benefit with boost! The best news is that boost can be controlled precisely, like any tuning measure, to keep performance at a peak without exceeding the limits of the engine's architecture and components.
So, if the online scuttlebutt is accurate, the 3.7L is apparently not a ready candidate for turbocharging or supercharging. Some hinted that forged aftermarket pistons might bridge the weaknesses of the 3.7L design. (The 4.7L V-8 got thrown into the mix in this discussion, again hints about high ring locations on the pistons.) If we get serious about supercharging the 3.7L V-6, or even the 4.7L V-8, let's research the pistons, rings and other concerns. For openers, does anyone have a 3.7L V-6 piston to photograph and share?
Meanwhile, the 5.7L Hemi V-8 and a Ram truck sound like your best bet. Our youngest son has a 2013 Ram 1500 4WD Crew Cab (rare) with the 5.7L V-8 and automatic. When he keeps his foot out of the throttle and allows the cylinders to "drop off", the engine delivers consistent 21-plus mpg on an interstate cruise. The truck's also more than qualified for your kind of trailering chores, Flynaround.
Also, a neighbor just bought this '04 Ram 1500 4WD Hemi Sport with every factory option available and only 60K documented miles—for only $12,000 from a private party! This truck is next to the trailer they plan to pull. I lugged this trailer to 2012 King of the Hammers at Johnson Valley with my '05 Ram 3500 4WD Cummins diesel. If they can do this with ease, it will say a lot. That trailer is around 7,500 pounds wet and without cargo.
Perhaps you can find a similar used Hemi 5.7L truck in this condition. Or maybe you'll bring your other truck to Oklahoma and use the Dakota for light-duty hauling and sporting about.
Moses
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Greg...The 350F (four-cylinder) was remarkable for its displacement and the era. A friend owned a Norton 750 Commando that I serviced. He purchased a 350F for his wife to ride, and she balked. I accompanied him on a trip from Carson City to Sacramento astride the 350F. He rode his Norton.
Honda built exotic small displacement racing multi-cylinder engines for years before the CB350F. The 750 and 500 F-models made their own mark. My only complaint with each of these bikes was the high weight in the chassis with a full tank of fuel. The CB750 was the worst in that regard.
Moses
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Good approach, Mary...Make sure the inserts, bolts and lock washers are graded hardware. I would want a minimum of Grade 5 U.S. or 8.8 Metric, decent tensile strength and still ductile enough for twisting and jarring. If the fit is more rigid, I would consider Grade 8 U.S. or 12.9 Metric. If the thread inserts are Grade 5 or Metric 8.8, a bolt and washer match would likely work well.
When you drill the holes, hit the bare edges with a primer/sealer to prevent rust formation. The inexpensive insert installation tools work fine. Unless you're doing this work day-in, day-out, the heavier duty insert installation tools are not cost effective.
Let us know how this turns out. It would be great to see some photo steps of your installation!
Moses
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Greg...In the early- to mid-'70s, I ran heavy equipment out of Local 3, Operating Engineers. As an operator, I worked highway jobs like the fill for the I-80 bypass of Winnemucca, the MGM Grand excavation at Reno and such. There were stretches of forced weather and seasonal down time, and in my off-time, I tuned Brit bikes for friends and eventually opened a small, independent motorcycle repair shop at Carson City.
The 'Chrome Horse' shop at Carson City, 1974-75 era. Poster at right, that's not me but does suggest how we can often become expert at "delayed gratification". Note the BSA Victor depicted!
Of course, I had a penchant for the Brit bikes, worked on many Norton, BSA, Triumph motorcycles, the BSA/Triumph engines were mostly unit construction era. Had a steady flow of work, eventually the Honda and other Japanese models showed up, the dirt/street scramblers and emerging motocross machines. I tuned Honda "F" four-cylinder 750, 500 and 350 (amazing, a four-cylinder 350!) engines, they were remarkable departures from our favorite "pushrod" Brit engines! Where the Brit and other make bikes required periodic top-end rebuilds and steady valve work, Hondas seemed to run endlessly!
I found myself tuning, rebuilding and testing a variety of motorcycles, and it's a fortunate thing that my first "serious" motorcycles were British. (My personal road bike during the shop years was the Rocket III BSA A75R.) I could make the left/right foot control distinction adeptly. This proved especially useful when tuning and testing exotic H2 and H3 Kawasaki two stroke machines that had a reputation as the fastest way through a 1/4-mile—just don't attempt curves at any speed! All of the British bikes could handle well.
There were tuning nuances with the Brit bikes, in particular, a knack for adding coils, breaker points and carburetors with each additional cylinder. The thumpers, like our Victors, had one of each. The twins had two carburetors (other than the Tiger or single carb "detuned" models), two sets of breaker points and a pair of coils. My Rocket III 750 triple had three of each, as did the Triumph Trident! I could use an oscilloscope and Uni-Syn quite well, the trick was to sync the ignition breaker point dwell and match the base timing for each cylinder, then set up the Amal concentric carburetors with matching slide vacuum...Wow, that was a fun trip down Memory Lane!
Regarding the Kawasaki jets for the XR350R, the Reno Kawasaki dealership had a direct line for Keihin parts. I furnished actual Keihin jet numbers, and they were able to order them. This is not unique, as Keihin jets are available readily in the aftermarket. My reference to savings over Honda is that the local Honda dealership refused to order "aftermarket" jets and only wanted to order through the Honda OE part numbers. This tripled the price of the jets. By simply doing my homework on the Keihin part numbers, I could ask for Keihin jets from any dealership (franchised or an independent shop) that has access to Keihin jets.
If you want to order by mail, here is an example of a direct source: http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/a_jet_kits_keihin_selection.htm
Taking that a step further to a particular carburetor, here is an example of a pilot jet: http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/jets_keihin_N424-21_slow_26-xxx.htm
Main jets? Try: http://www.jetsrus.com/a_jets_by_carburetor_type/jets_keihin_99101-357_main_Hex_25-xxx.htm
Having trouble identifying which Keihin jet type you need? Use this page: http://www.jetsrus.com/FAQs/FAQ_identify_that_jet.htm
Check the carburetor jet type, the jet length and thread diameter, go through the charts, it's that simple! These are genuine Keihin jets of any size needed, ranging from $4-$7 apiece instead of $10-$20 from OE numbers. Stock up or find a local shop that orders jets this way!
Moses
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Brilliant, Kevin! If this is the cure, it makes perfect sense...Headers often make condensation worse...
Both suggestions need follow-up, RareCJ8! Let us know how this works out. Given the driving conditions when the behavior developed, loping along at lower speeds, condensation could be the culprit!
Thanks, Kevin...Here are details on RareCJ8's Scrambler: http://www.4wdmechanix.com/HD-Videos-Jeep-CJ-8-4.6L-Stroker-Power.html.
Moses
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Greg...Your introduction to helmets reminds me of Nevada's new motorcycle license law of the early '70s. When I bought the pre-owned '69 BSA Victor 441, I wanted to ride on public roads as well as "scrambles". The mandatory helmet law went into effect with the motorcycle endorsement.
We lived at rural Douglas County at the time. Carson Valley was still a ranching community with less than 1,500 population, compared to today's 30,000 people in the area.
In those years, the DMV office at Carson City, the state capitol, would send a license examiner to the sparsely populated counties on given weeks and days. The waiting line was usually short, and I had my motor vehicle operator's license, just needed the motorcycle endorsement. I parked the Victor at the courthouse lot, and there would be no fanfare about my riding to the examination, no questions like, "Did someone with an endorsement ride that bike here?"...Try that today!
The examiner was cordial and for good reason. He had the best job at the examiner's level in the DMV, driving to rural county courthouses, enjoying the scenery and small community cultures! This was his day at the Douglas County Courthouse in Minden. He was pleased.
When my turn came, the examiner asked what I needed, and we discussed the motorcycle endorsement. There was a small written exam, and once done with that, I waited for the "figure 8" riding test—the POST test was a standard, and I had seen the layout in the DMV parking lot at Carson City. It hadn't dawned on me that the Minden Courthouse parking lot did not have any lines and circles painted on its surface.
So, we had a dilemma. The examiner paused for a bit, then told me to grab my helmet. We walked out of the courthouse to the Victor, and he asked me to start up the bike and go over the controls with him. Pointing across the parking lot to his State of Nevada car, he said, "Hop on the bike and follow me...We'll drive around Minden...You make turns where I do, try to keep up with my car." That last request would pose no problem!
I dutifully followed the official car, using hand signals where the examiner utilized his turn signals. I demonstrated my knowledge of the braking hand signal, even though the BSA's left side brake pedal activated the brake light! The examiner was duly impressed, and after driving for 10 minutes or so around Minden, we ended up back at the courthouse parking lot. I parked, shut off the thumper and removed my helmet as the examiner walked over to the bike. He quipped, "You did a great job, let's go finish the paperwork!"
It may well be that I was the first, possibly the only motorcyclist to ever perform a true "riding test" on public roads at Nevada. To me and the examiner, it made perfect sense. I rode home with a motorcycle endorsement in my wallet, using hand signals all the way!
Moses
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Hi, Mary, and welcome to the forums! You bring a very interesting question. If you're seeking a welding alternative for your reinforcement project, there are some choices.
In the body/collision industry, welding is the common choice for repairs or section replacements on a unibody frame/chassis. Welding on sheet metal, even the heftier gauge of the XJ Cherokee's unibody, does have challenges, though. The weld and heat affected zone (HAZ) adjacent to the welds is often troublesome. Many repairs result in "embrittlement" caused by the heat-up/cool down hardening of the sheet metal. This inevitably leads to cracking, especially on a trail Jeep 4x4 subjected to flexing, pounding and torque stresses! Sometimes the sheet material, if originally hardened or metallurgically alloyed for more strength, can actually soften from the welding process or the introduction of the wrong welding filler material.
Cautions: For those welding on a unibody chassis, drilling holes in the add-on piece or repair section, then plug or buttonhole welding the new piece to the cleaned unibody, is considered an industry common practice. Under no circumstances should a sheet metal component be "T" or butt welded to a structural sheet metal member. Here is a quick overview and perspective from the American Welding Society (AWS). Take the time to read this if you plan to work with automotive sheet metal: http://www.aws.org/w/a/wj/2002/03/feature/. Also see the Miller Welding guidelines at: http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/articles/sheet-metal-MIG-TIG-GMAW-GTAW. Miller follows the I-CAR standards. I-CAR has strict procedures for automotive sheet metal welding: https://www.i-car.com/.
So, to answer your question about alternatives, I can share that several suspension lift kit manufacturers have employed the use of self-tapping (quality grade!) sheet metal screws for attaching support members to the XJ Cherokee unibody frame. On our XJ Cherokee's Full-Traction Suspension 6-inch long arm kit, the braces that anchor the front link-arm suspension to the unibody/frame each have a single large through bolt. Industrial grade sheet metal screws, provided in the kit, are a large part of the remaining support to the unibody/frame.
There is no denying the impact force of the XR Cherokee's front leading link suspension arms against this screw-attached crossmember! The axle thrust and bumping against trail obstacles drive all of that force through the lower link arms and into these two braces. Here is one instance where heftier, hex-headed sheet metal screws have performed well. I've rechecked the torque on this hardware several times over the 50K miles since the installation. Surprisingly, none of these screws have sheared, broken or come loose! Here's that installation, note #11, #12 and #13 illustrations: http://www.4wdmechanix.com/Moses-Ludel-How-to-Installing-a-Jeep-XJ-Cherokee-Long-Arm-Suspension-Lift.html. Again, there is a hefty bolt through the unibody/frame, plus some crossmember hardware, so these braces are not entirely supported by sheet metal screws.
There is a technique that I really do prefer for sheet metal. Trade products like "NutSerts" and AKV thread inserts are a remedy worth considering. There are even "factory" examples of this type fastener, and they will go into any drilled hole with room behind it. (Some even work with a "blind" hole.) Here is an AVK example available from MSC Direct: http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/09331760?item=09331760&fromRR=Y. Note the MSC 'Big Book' catalog listings for Nutsert and AVK type insert thread nuts: http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/09331760?item=09331760&fromRR=Y.
Do not be discouraged by industrial size thread insert kits and installation tools costing over $400. As you can see from the first link, a tool can be under $10, the insert nuts are available from MSC, Fastenal and many other sources. This is the best "bolt on" solution for sheet metal, as you end up with a nut embedded and secure, close to flush with the sheet metal surface. (The sheet metal can even be countersunk with the correct body tool for a precise flush fit of the threaded nut insert.) One more example at MSC: http://www.mscdirect.com/product/details/09331760?item=09331760&fromRR=Y.
Rivets are similar if you can find properly graded, large enough rivets and an affordable installation tool to match. The disadvantage of a rivet compared to the Nutsert or AVK type products is that the rivet is "permanent". The only way to remove a rivet is to drill it out, and steel rivets, in particular, can eat up a lot of drill bits in the process! I'd lean toward the thread inserts, and if this reinforcement is a stressed member, my choice of bolt diameter would be 6mm (1/4-inch) or 8mm (5/16") stud size. A bolt-on reinforcement member can be removed for chassis and other service work.
"Structural member" is an important concept. If you reinforce a sheet metal section that supports critical suspension, powertrain or body safety elements, be sure to improve on the structural integrity and stamina, do not detract from it. A classic situation with unibody "stiffening" and bracing is to make a given section too rigid. On an engineered chassis, added stiffening at one area can cause force to transfer to other areas, placing more stress on the zone that becomes stressed! Be discrete with spreading the stresses evenly and allowing the unibody to behave as it was intended to do.
As for adhesives, there are OEM areas of these vehicles that often have members "glued" to sheet metal. However, in looking at the best products 3M offers, they are intended for attaching body panels like door skins and gluing at other non-structural areas: http://3mcollision.com/3m-panel-bonding-adhesive-38315.html. This is obviously tough stuff, but not strong enough to be considered the same as a weld or proper attachment method at a structural section of the unibody—or in your case, for attaching a metal part intended to stiffen or reinforce the unibody frame/chassis. If you were simply doubling up door skins, that might be different. Here is a direct quote from 3M:
"This product is not intended to bond structural components of a vehicle such as pillars, rockers, or frame members. If doubt exists as to whether a particular component is structural, then that component should be welded."
I trust this helps clarify. I'd be pleased to take our discussion further. Thanks for joining us at the forums, we look forward to your participation!
Moses
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Sounds like a rich mixture, more specifically like the engine is running on its warm-up mode. We could suspect other things if the engine did not clear out as it does when you rev it up and back. You might pull a convenient spark plug when the engine is acting up. Look at the fuel mixture signs of color at the plug. What's the exhaust pipe coloration at the tailpipe end? Does it look richer than usual when the engine is acting up like this?
This could point to the coolant temp sensor or a thermostat set too low. What's the engine operating temperature when this is going on? Do you need to test the temp sensor ohms-resistance reading? Is there an exhaust restriction of any kind?
When you check the temp sensor, also check the terminal connection and attachment stem of the temp sensor. The vibration/pounding could be opening the circuit or sending a false or intermittent reading to the PCM.
If turning the key manually back to "On" from "Start" mode seems to stop the starter run-on, I'd suspect the key switch. To isolate the starter as the trouble, try manually starting the engine by using a jumper directly at the solenoid (bypassing the key switch altogether). See if the starter runs on when you release the jumper. Caution: Make sure the transmission is in neutral with the parking brake set and wheels chocked. Don't run over yourself performing this test!
With the Motorcraft/Ford-type solenoid (mounted at the inner fender), you can perform the jumper test easily. If you are not sure of the poles, it's the hot battery lead across to the small terminal marked "S". This essentially mimics the key start mode. Make sure that the solenoid is not sticking, too.
The Motorcraft starters are notorious for "sticking" in run-on mode or not releasing the drive and staying engaged. If you suspect the starter, that's a good possibility. We had an '87 Grand Wagoneer 360 V-8 with Motorcraft starter that decided to lock up the drive. By the time I disconnected the sizzling battery lead, the starter and battery cable were toast. Beware.
Moses
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As a footnote, flynaround, there's a limit to working a chassis and powertrain. The 2006 Dakota has specific capacities for pulling a trailer. I'd look at the V-8 Dakota model specs and see what Chrysler had in mind for loads on this vehicle. Tow capacity includes brakes, powertrain, suspension, wheelbase length, track width and frame stamina. If any of this is subpar on the Dakota when compared to your towing plans, you might consider selling your popular Dakota and either using the Ram 1500 for towing or finding another appropriate chassis for your towing chores.
For towing, you can't have too much truck, but you can have too little. I like our Dodge Ram 3500 4WD Cummins truck for towing and have never reached gross vehicle weight or gross combination weight. That's my plan, as I want this truck to see a half-million miles of service.
Moses
Cherokee XJ 4.0L Idles Roughly and Misfires with Clutch Engaged
in Jeep® XJ Cherokee, MJ Comanche Pickup and Grand Cherokee
Posted
Waiting for your update, Ron. The CPS is a very common problem issue. The damage is apparent. Let's see if this is the cure.
Moses