Mike House
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Posts posted by Mike House
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I realized that I never closed the loop on this post that I started.
Carb update.
I found a guy in Atlanta GA who rebuilt the carb for me. Georgia Carburetor.
I sent him the carb as is. 3 weeks and $250 later I had my carb back rebuilt. When it came time to start the rebuilt engine for the first time the carb didn’t disappoint! The engine started right up and idled perfectly. It responded quickly as I cycled the linkage and ran the engine RPM up and down!
Mike
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Final fitting of the body before I pull it back apart for painting and finishing a few things on the chassis.
I am upgrading to swinging pedals hydraulic clutch and a master cylinder on the firewall. I built a plate to reinforce the fire wall behind the pedals.
Mounted some tail lights and drilled the dash for gages. -
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I had to move the engine forward about 2.5” to get the firewall clearance I needed. Looks like I will be adding drivelines to my list!
I am pretty happy with the alignment of the tub fenders grill and hood. Everything bolts up and looks good. I have not drilled the holes for the tub yet but it lands the hat channel over the frame mounts so I should be in good shape!
I have given myself a completion date of October! I think I am tracking to get it done target date!
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Thanks Moses. The fan i purchased came with thermostatic control and a fuse block relay etc.
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Thanks Moses,
The engine did not have a fan or a fan shroud when I pulled it from the donor vehicle. I needed a fan and I wanted to be able to control when it came on and off so I went with electric. The fan I installed moves 2400 CFM.
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I went with an electric fan to cool the engine. Corrected two small water leaks and ran the engine. I let the engine get up to about 195 deg and turned the fan on. In just a few minutes the temp dropped down to under 180. I think I will need to build a shroud but I’m going to wait until I run the Jeep a bit before I make that decision.
I have a minor oil leak on the rear of the intake manifold. I didn’t use an RTV on the seal when I installed it. I may go back and do that.
next I will build a mount for my clutch slave cylinder and than it’s time to fit the new tub on!!!
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Fired up the dauntless V6 today! I was pleasantly surprised when the engine only made a few revolutions before it roared to life. Very minor adjustment of the timing and it was idling smooth! Oil pressure a steady 45 lbs!
so gratifying!!!
Funny thing it was 1year and 1day ago that I took this engine from the goats in this pasture in North Georgia and brought it home for my project! Time flys!
Moses thanks for all the help along the way!
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Thanks Moses. One step closer!
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Haha yes a relief for sure.
I don’t know the history of this engine but I can just imagine it was parked at some point due to no oil pressure. Maybe some one drilled that housing out thinking they were going to increase oil pressure or volume...
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Mystery solved. My new oil pump housing showed up and the plunger and spring seat as they should. I reassembled the high volume pump kit with the new pump housing spun the pump with the drill and have a steady 45 lbs of oil pressure! Big relief to have this behind me. If all goes well I will fire that engine up this weekend!
Pic of the new housing with the valve and spring installed.
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Thanks Moses,
Absolutely! I was relieved to finally find something that is definitively not right. I would have never fired this engine off had I not been confident in the oil flow and pressure. I believe I will still pull the rocker shafts apart and clean them out. Once I get the oil pump situation corrected I will check for oil flow at the rocker shafts. I did have oil present at the rocker shafts and rocker arms when priming but it didn't seem like enough.
I have three plungers. The one that was in it, the one that came with the high volume pump kit and the one that came with the engine rebuild kit. They are all three the exact same length and diameter.
I watched a bunch of videos on line showing people drilling out the pump housing and/or timing cover to increase volume... I wonder if some one went at this thing with a drill at some point...
My purchasing of parts has outpaced my progress on the jeep. I have a garage full of new parts (including the new body) I know there a lot worse problems to have!
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Top pic is the side view of the relief valve housing. The orange spring and valve are installed and bottomed out in the housing. The spring is not visible. It is not protruding at all.
in the second pic if you zoom in you can just barely see the orange spring. -
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When in doubt go read the directions....😁
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I think I found the smoking gun.... my orange 40 lb spring should be protruding beyond the housing by 21/64 of an inch. It is barely flush. I wrote my measurements down next to each spring. Spring lengths check out. It looks like my pump housing relieve valve bore is too deep.
I could shim the spring or buy a new pump housing. My pump housing is slightly scored and a new one is about 100 bucks. I believe I will buy a new one.
What do you think?Mke
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Thanks for the follow up Moses. Glad you took a look at the posted photos. I had not gone back through them yet.
I did notice on the Melling pump kit that it indicates how far the spring should stick out from the timing cover. I will check that out tonight.
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The pic is indicating where the oil pressure gauge supply line is located. So I removed the valve covers, turned the engine by hand while turning the pump with the drill motor. I did have good flow of oil to both heads and around the rocker shafts at the rocker arms. The pressure never made it above 35 lbs. No visible oil leaks anywhere. I would think if I were missing a plug in the block somewhere I would not be able to change the oil pressure by changing the relief valve spring. Seems that the oil would take the path of least resistance and all the pressure would go to that missing plug hole.
I installed a new oil pick up tube before putting the oil pan on and I am confident with the gasket and bolts.....
I am leaning towards an issue with the bore in the relief valve port. I will dig into it more tomorrow.
Thanks for the help.
Mike
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1 hour ago, Moses Ludel said:
Hi, Mike...First off, let's consider the drill motor speed. What is the rpm? Is the drill stalling? What size drill motor is this? Where is the oil gauge attached? At the OEM oil sender fitting on the block? There could still be air in the oiling system, in the lifters, and so forth, that is not allowing the gauge to read full pressure yet. Also, the petroleum jelly is working its way through the system.
Pressure is strictly limited by the pressure relief valve and spring. A leak at the relief plunger would negatively impact oil pressure. Check this first. Determine whether the plunger fits properly in the bore without excess clearance between the plunger and the bore. Measure the I.D. of the bore and the O.D. of the plunger. If there is a significant discrepancy here, that could impact the oil pressure.
The test you made with the stock set of pump gears is revealing. Your oil pressure is still on the low side unless you go overboard with the spring pressure. (Note, too, that the long gears on the Melling high volume kit should not adversely affect oil flow—quite the opposite. The long gears will increase flow volume and easily hold whatever pressure determined by the relief valve and spring.) When you boosted pump spring pressure and saw an increase in pressure, though not enough, that makes checking out the relief valve plunger bore and plunger important.
Worth mentioning and often overlooked, an excess amount of engine bearing lube can sometimes inhibit initial oil flow. What I like to do with a fresh engine while oil priming is to slowly rotate the crankshaft with a ratchet and socket on the crank bolt. Make sure rocker shafts are torque'd in place before rotating the crankshaft. If there is an overabundance of assembly lube in your engine, rotating the crankshaft will gradually thin the assembly lube as it mixes with your light engine oil. I would try this approach before diving deeply into an engine that is now in the chassis.
If there is still an issue here, I would consider the following:
1) Blockages to oil flow such as dirt, debris, a physical blockage like the camshaft bearing oil indexing holes not lining up with the block oil passages). Did you change the cam bearings? Are the camshaft bearing oil holes aligned correctly? Pressure bleed-off from loose crankshaft bearing clearances is unlikely, you checked these carefully with Plastigage.
2) An oil pickup issue like the pump screen does not set near the base of the oil pan, or the pump screen tube is not sealing properly at the engine block. (A leak on the oil pickup side would dramatically drop pressure output.) The oil pump gears should be fine, they're new, presumed to be properly machined gears. The timing cover oil pump bore-to-gear clearance must be correct, though.
3) Oil pump pressure issue like the plunger is missing or not fitting well (loose in the bore). Wrong spring, which is doubtful since Melling was clear with the color choices. The bypass pressure relief spring and plunger must fit properly with correct plunger-to-bore fit. The timing cover bore must be true and machined for proper pump gear-to-wall clearances.
4) Any bleed-off of pressure at major oil galleys can be a problem. This includes loose or missing cup plugs and threaded pipe plugs that terminate galleys. If an oil plug gets left out or loose, there will be a major loss of oil pressure. There would be a visible leak if the plug is at the outer portion of the block or head(s). When an internal galley plug is left out, the oil returns to the oil pan, and the only symptom is a large drop in oil pressure.
The lack of oil flow at the rocker shafts, unless clogged like you hint, suggests a lack of oil volume through the system. I would loosen one rocker shaft (1/8" is plenty, don't remove it) just enough to expose the oil feed hole through the head. Spin the pump and see whether oil flows steadily through this passageway. Steadily is the word, you want the system free of oil gaps and air. Another place to check flow for gaps and air is the gauge port (NPT fitting) in the block. Oil should flow steadily there.
Since the pump gears spin in the timing cover pump bore, a worn or improperly bored timing cover will definitely reduce oil flow volume and pressure. If there is distinct wear or a clearance misfit between the pump gears and housing, that would be an issue. You have a new cover in place, so if there is any concern, it would be whether the bore was machined out of round or possibly oversized. I like your idea of confirming bore diameters and sizing related to oil pump function.
Moses
Thanks Moses,
You make many good points here.
First off the drill motor is half inch drive 7amp 3100 rpm. I may have been a little heavy handed with the bearing assembly lube. Turning the engine over by hand is a good point. I did read about this from another source but had forgotten about it. I will first spin the pump again while rotating the engine by hand. If this does not help than I will check out that relief valve fit. It seemed tight enough that it took a little work to get it to come out of the bore with oil on it.
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On 3/20/2021 at 6:44 PM, Mike House said:
The wife picked up some Vaseline when she was at the store so I was able to pack the pump and close it up!
So I have ran into some potential concerns with oil pump. I am not sure if I am over thinking this or not. Hopefully I can get some feedback.
Oil priming tool showed up so I proceeded to spin the pump with an electric drill and check oil pressure and flow to the heads. Upon spinning the pump I could feel the resistance and began to get oil pressure. The resistance increased and began to drag the drill down. I was only able to get about 10lbs of pressure on the new gauge. This is with the Melling high volume pump upgrade, orange 40lb spring and the provided plat that is designed to restore the potentially scored surface of the pump body/housing. After several attempts I was never able to achieve more than about 15 lbs of pressure and a little oil showing up around the lifters.
I pulled the high volume pump gears and spacer plate out and put the new gears that came with my engine rebuild kit in and see what I got. I was able to get about 25 lbs of oil pressure. I thought I would try a different spring. I installed the 60lb spring and the other new pressure relief valve in the housing. When I spun the pump with the 60lb spring I was able to achieve 40lbs of pressure.
just to check flow I loosened the rocker arm assemblies and left them in place on the head. I spun the pump and did get a high volume of oil up to the top of the head on both sides. I re-torqued the rocker shafts back in place and spun the pump again. I was able to get oil through the rockers at 40lbs of oil pressure but not a lot. I may need to disassemble the rocker shafts and clean them out a bit better. This engine did sit outside for a while.
I have read dozens of posts on line about oiling for these engines.
All of this to ask. What should I do next?
I am looking at two things right now.
1) replace the slightly scored oil pump body/housing
2) Definitely pull the rocker shafts apart and clean out.
I am using a new timing cover. I wonder if they may have machined the bore for the relief valve too deep and that is why I got adequate oil pressure when I installed the higher pressure spring.....
Any help would be great.
Thanks,
Mike
1967 Dauntless V6 Rebuild/Carb Q
in Vintage Jeep® Vehicles 1941-71
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