Jump to content

jeepstroker

Members
 View Profile  See their activity

  • Posts

    18

  • Joined

  • Last visited

 Content Type 

Posts posted by jeepstroker

    Jeep 4.0L Standalone Distributor Versus Fuel-and-Spark Management

    in Jeep® XJ Cherokee, MJ Comanche Pickup and Grand Cherokee

    Posted

    hello moses again :)

    ......................................................

    i have another project and i need your advise .... i will install ecu standalone with factory jeep 4.0 1991 / 1999 xj harness

    type of ignition : distributor / one coil ( factory )

    .......................................................................................

    my question is : can i use factory distributor and crank signal ? 

    Jeep 4.0L Standalone Distributor Versus Fuel-and-Spark Management

    in Jeep® XJ Cherokee, MJ Comanche Pickup and Grand Cherokee

    Posted

    On 12/9/2016 at 9:44 PM, Moses Ludel said:

    jeepstroker...The standalone distributors I mentioned will handle the ignition demands independent of a PCM or aftermarket ignition/fuel controller.  Does your Coil Pack IS1 require a crankshaft signal for the fuel distribution or ignition?  Is it looking for a camshaft position signal as well?

    There is a big problem here.  You've talked about the use of an aftermarket spark/fuel controller.   (Is that the Coil Pack 6 IS1?)  If the controller is a program for fuel and spark management, there are fuel maps and ignition spark timing curves or algorithms built into the programmer's software.  Spark timing would be a function of the controller.  

    If you install a standalone distributor, you lose the controller's spark management function.  The ignition then has a mechanical and vacuum spark timing that is rigid and linear, not infinitely variable like the OEM fuel-and-spark management.  OEM fuel-and-spark management relies on a number of engine sensors and their feedback to determine the right spark timing under a given set of engine loads, the throttle setting and engine speed characteristics.

    So, if your aftermarket controller/PCM/ECU/ECM manages the fuel and spark timing, the engine needs either 1) coil packs similar to late OEM Jeep 4.0L engines or 2) a mechanical, camshaft driven distributor with a rotor, cap and spark plug wires to deliver the spark to each cylinder.  The mechanical distributor in this case,  like a typical Jeep 4.0L 1991-99 type for MPI engines with fuel-and-spark controlled by the PCM, simply delivers spark to each cylinder.  These MPI distributors do not have centrifugal advance or a vacuum advance spark timing device.  The actual spark timing at a given moment is controlled by the PCM/ECU/ECM and the distributor's ICM (ignition control module).

    The trigger for the coil(s) to fire is either 1) an ICM in the distributor like the OEM Jeep method with a cap and rotor distributor and a single coil or 2) a TDC signal directly from a crank position sensor for #1 cylinder's TDC and use of an ignition module.  An aftermarket controller's software programming would determine the actual spark timing, using the #1 TDC signal from the crankshaft position sensor.  Other sensor signals may be required with aftermarket systems, items similar to OEM sensors like the temp, MAP, O2, manifold vacuum, air intake temp and so forth.  There is still a need to "distribute" the spark, either with a cap and rotor distributor like the 1991-99 MPI Jeep unit or through the controller.  The controller and its ignition module (either remote or built into the controller) would send firing signals to the six coil pack coils, following the firing order of the engine:  1-5-3-6-2-4.

    Note: If your controller or engine management system needs a #1 cylinder TDC signal, that would be the crankshaft position sensor.  The distributor, even a standalone, would not provide a TDC signal.  A conventional/mechanical advance standalone distributor always requires a base timing like 4-8 degrees BTDC.  This is not TDC.  So these signals would be an unreliable signal for precise TDC.  As engine speed picks up, the mechanical advance moves the timing more degrees BTDC.  If the standalone has a vacuum advance canister (hooked to throttle valve ported vacuum and not to manifold vacuum), the spark timing swings even more degrees BTDC, with maximum vacuum spark advance at low speed throttle tip-in.  These are mechanical functions independent of the PCM/ECU/ECM or an aftermarket fuel-and-spark timing controller.

    As for the cam position sensor, this is a part of the OEM Mopar PCM system.  The camshaft position sensor wants to confirm that the engine's valve timing and crankshaft position (#1 cylinder TDC) are within normal degree range.  If the camshaft is running late valve timing, let's say from a worn timing chain, the engine will throw a code.  That is the purpose of the camshaft position sensor.

    If your engine is a 1991-up 4.0L Jeep/Mopar MPI type, you have either a stock cap and rotor distributor or a camshaft position sensor unit (used on 1999/2000-up coil-on-plug engines) to send a camshaft position signal to the PCM.  The 1991-99 OEM distributor mounts in a fixed housing position; this distributor doubles as the crankshaft position sensor.

    Questions about your engine and this aftermarket coil pack system:

    1) What year Jeep and 4.0L engine do you have here?  Now a stroker 4.6L build?

    jeep stroker 4.9 

    2) Was your 4.0L or 4.6L stroker engine originally a coil-on-plug 1999/2000 or newer engine?  Or did you have a 1991-99 type distributor?  Do you have a PCM, and if so, what year PCM and wiring?

    originally type distributor 1995 ... i have haltech with coil-on-plug ls1

    2) Please identify the manufacturer of this aftermarket coil pack system and which of its components you have here.  Does this aftermarket coil pack system work with just a TDC signal?  Does it need a camshaft position signal, too?

    oem ls1 coil ... they need tdc signal + cam signal

    3) Is this aftermarket coil pack system just for ignition function, or does it operate as a complete fuel-and-spark management system? 

    it's haltech system with ls1 coils

    4) Does the aftermarket coil pack system need sensor input?  An ignition module?  Does it come with six coils, one mounting on each spark plug?  Does the aftermarket controller/box/PCM/ECU/ECM, whatever they're calling it, have a built-in ignition module? 

    no .. only ignition signal from ecu

    4) How is this coil pack system supposed to work?  Did it come with instructions?  If not, do you have a detailed explanation of how the system functions, installation instructions and wiring schematics?  Is this information available online at the company's website?  

    it work with 3 wire .... earth + v12 + signal

    Moses

    haltech system need crank and cam signal

    now i use jeep distributor 1995 with nissan distributor (mix )

    Jeep 4.0L Standalone Distributor Versus Fuel-and-Spark Management

    in Jeep® XJ Cherokee, MJ Comanche Pickup and Grand Cherokee

    Posted

     

    17 hours ago, Moses Ludel said:

    Hi, jeepstroker...I like the HEI derivative distributors, a true standalone with easy wiring interface and room for a tach wire.

    That said, the better ones in the market are the DUI unit and if you're somewhat Holiday budget constrained, the $149 Summit Racing version is cost-effective and gets decent reviews:

    https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-850047/overview/make/jeep

    DUI for an AMC/Jeep inline six is $299 retail:  http://performancedistributors.com/product/amc-inline-6-cylinder-dui-distributor/

    You get what you pay for, that said, Summit Racing is good about warranty and product issues.  DUI has quality billet and bearings.  There's also MSD, but the MSD #8516 requires an MSD control box, and the cost for the distributor plus the box is high.

    Moses 

    but it will work distributor with coil pack 6 ls1 ??

    what about crank and cam sensor ?

    Which Computer Program for a Jeep Stroker Six?

    in Jeep® XJ Cherokee, MJ Comanche Pickup and Grand Cherokee

    Posted

    jeepstroker…Welcome to the forums!  We value your participation and questions...

     

    The Hypertech "Max Energy Programmer" works great for me on our stock 4.0L ’99 XJ Cherokee.  (See my comments at the article on this Hypertech installation:  http://www.4wdmechanix.com/Hypertech-Max-Energy-Power-Programmers-for-Jeep-4.0L-and-Dodge-Cummins.html.)  I use the low octane setting.  No ping, works very well with stock compression ratio. 

     

    On your engine with higher compression, you may want to run the Max Energy's high octane setting but this will demand use of high octane fuel.  I am happy with the low octane fuel setting and the Hypertech “Max Energy Programmer” computer programmer.  I have not used any of the other brand "programs" you mention and do not recommended running multiple programs.

     

    One thing to consider with the "strongest" computer programming is whether you plan to drive the Jeep XJ Cherokee on the street and highway.  For drivability, you want a user and engine friendly software program that is the best compromise for performance, available fuel octane, and economy.  In my experience, Hypertech did it's homework on this program.  The others mentioned may very well provide a performance edge, but without driving and experiencing the use of these other "programs", I must limit my response.

     

    Other members may want to jump into this discussion with their experiences around the Super Chips, SCT and Jet Performance programs.  You might also call or Email the tech line for these manufacturers and share your Jeep stroker engine build-up details.  They should know how compatible their software would be with your modifications.  Your engine is octane sensitive with the higher compression, and there is no knock sensor to signal the need for retarding the spark timing.

     

    Moses

    Which Computer Program for a Jeep Stroker Six?

    in Jeep® XJ Cherokee, MJ Comanche Pickup and Grand Cherokee

    Posted

    I have a 1996 Jeep Cherokee 1996 stroker six with these specification:

     

    - High compression pistons

    - CompCams camshaft #68-239-4 with lifters, valve springs, retainers, etc.

    - Three-into-one header

     

    Currently, I have a Hypertech program with a Unichip rev limiter module on the way.  I want the most powerful computer and am considering these options:

     

    Superchips - SCT Computer - Jet Performance Stage 2 module

     

    Which is the strongest module?

×
×
  • Create New...