JanetBrown
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Posts posted by JanetBrown
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I have also seen this information on several other sites, as well as noting that, at least in the U.S. market, the safety recall does only seem to apply to gasoline powered models, with no evidence of a recall on diesel powered vehicles. Does anyone have proof of a diesel related recall? Possibly a letter from chrysler/fiat stating that its diesel powered Jeep is subject to the recall?
Well I received a recall notice for my Jeep Cherokee but it did not differentiate between petrol (gasoline) or diesel in the UK
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OK just found this on the NHTSA site:
Date Investigation Opened: JUN 12, 2012
Date Investigation Closed: NOV 14, 2014
NHTSA Action Number: EA12005
Component(s): FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINEAll Products Associated with this Investigation
Details
756 Associated Documents
Manufacturer: Chrysler Group LLCSUMMARY:ODI has completed an extensive analysis of rear crash fuel tank system integrity data for the subject Jeep Cherokee, Grand Cherokee and Liberty vehicles (SVs). As of June 2013, ODI knew of 56 post-collision fatal fires, 28 non-fatal fires, and 6 fuel leak incidents (totaling 90 incidents, 75 fatalities and 58 injuries) involving the SVs. Based on this analysis, ODI issued a Recall Request Letter (RRL) on June 3, 2013 requesting that Chrysler recall the Grand Cherokee and Liberty vehicles due to the rate of fatal, non-fatal fire, and fuel leak incidents when compared to peer vehicles (compact and medium SUVs) built during the same time period. In the RRL, ODI described how the location of the aft-mounted fuel tank made the SVs vulnerable to rear impact crash fuel tank failures. During the analysis, besides the high speed/high severity crashes present in both the SV and peer vehicles, ODI observed a significant number of low and moderate speed rear impact crash related fires and leaks, particularly in the Liberty. The data also demonstrated that SVs originally equipped with towing hitch receivers (trailer hitches) appeared to be under-represented in rear-impact related fuel tank failures. In the RRL, ODI requested that Chrysler provide its response by June 18, 2013, otherwise NHTSA might proceed to an Initial Decision that the SVs contain a safety-related defect. Chrysler responded to the RRL on June 4, 2013 and vigorously disputed the tentative findings of the RRL. Among other things, Chrysler argued that the SVs had an overall safety record superior to their peers, met or exceeded all applicable federal motor vehicle safety standards (FMVSS) and only experienced fires in severe high energy rear impacts. Nonetheless, while continuing to maintain that the SVs did not contain a safety-related defect, Chrysler proposed a recall (13V-252) of approximately 2.5M (1.6M currently registered) model year (MY) 1993 - 1998 Grand Cherokee (ZJ) and MY 2002-2007 Liberty (KJ) vehicles on June 18, 2013. The recall remedy submitted by Chrysler would employ a hitch receiver assembly consisting of a steel cross-member behind the fuel tank with forward-projecting arms bolted to the frame rails on either side of the fuel tank. For the MY 1999 - 2004 Grand Cherokee, Chrysler indicated it would conduct a customer satisfaction campaign and inspect vehicles equipped with aftermarket tow hitch receivers, and if necessary, replace any such hitch receivers whose condition may increase the risk of fuel system failure in rear crashes. Examination of the available data established that the MY 1999 - 2004 Grand Cherokee did not pose the same magnitude of safety risk as the MY 1993 - 1998 Grand Cherokee and MY 2002-2007 Liberty, particularly in low and moderate speed rear impacts. Because the agency has concluded that the vehicles do not present an unreasonable risk to safety, ODI is closing its investigation of the MY 1999 - 2004 Grand Cherokee. Although it was not within the scope of the Petition initiating this investigation or the Preliminary Evaluation preceding this EA, ODI also examined the performance of the MY 1993 - 2001 Cherokee as part of this investigation. NHTSA's assessment of the available data for the Cherokee did not establish an unreasonable risk in comparison to peer vehicles. ODI does not approve proposed defect remedies. While offering to install hitch receiver assemblies on the MY 1993-1998 Grand Cherokees and 2002-2007 Liberty, Chrysler did not, in ODI's view, provide enough evidence demonstrating the effectiveness of the proposed remedy in rear impacts. The Complete Summary for this Closing Resume (EA12-005) can be seen by opening the following document: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM466679/INCLA-EA12005-9765.PDF
So in light of this where do we stand in the UK, especially given that the opening states Fuel System GASOLINE - does this include DIESEL
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I have a case number following several emails, on one of the later emails they have my registration number (which I did not supply them with) on a letter I received this week they have the case number and a registration number that is one letter different to mine. I have sent them a long response as they have 'strongly advised' I have the recall completed. There are several comments and questions contained in my response and I look forward to their reply with interest.
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Ok so having received a letter from Customer Relations in response to another email, I have sent a letter to them detailing several points and several questions. I have also asked for a timeline for responses.
I have also spoken to a local company that specialises in selling caravans/Horse trailers and ancillary equipment related to towing. The man I spoke to said that the first they had heard of the problems we are having was yesterday from another salesman. I gave him all the information I have and he is going to research the possibility of there being another towbar that will meet the requirements of the safety recall. He and I both talked about encouraging a towbar manufacturer to produce a suitable towbar to meet the requirements. He was surprised that given the number of cars involved that someone had not yet 'jumped on the bandwagon'.
My car is tomorrow in my local garage (not the stealership). Primarily to replace the glow plugs but they have offered to investigate the possibility of moving the fuel tank by the required amount (as suggested on another forum), but only if it is absolutely safe to do so. They are also going to look at the distance needed between the tank and towbar to see if there is any possibility of 'trimming' the towbar to the required distance and adding extra support if appropriate.
I do not want to give up on this car, I have loved it since the first day I owned it, I have been a fervent recommender of Jeeps but sadly feel so let down by the fiasco over the recall
As an aside, how much do people pay for replacement glow plugs - the stealership quoted £443 ($699) for them but my own garage will supply them for £60 ($95)
Sadly, I feel that if I do not receive a timely response that offers some form of hope, that I may have to leave 'the high road' and look at other options.
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rosie1081 - H&H of course
I wonder if Jeep will have the balls to sponsor any more equestrian events. -
So this morning I have had a letter which 'strongly recommends that I have the crossbeam fitted' and that they are reviewing my comments regarding the towbar.
IMHO this translates as F.O and do as you are told. I now also believe that Fiat/Chrysler have absolutely no intention of dealing with the towbar issue in the UK
One extremely unhappy soon to be not a Jeep Owner - the value of Jeep Cherokees has crashed in the UK - it looks as if no-one will take them as part exchange for another vehicle. Prior to this, four weeks ago my car was valued at £4,000 - now - ?????
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Just to let you know that I have heard on another forum that here in the UK some insurers are refusing to insure cars that either have not been taken in for the fix or have signed the waiver. I would have hoped that a little commonsense would have been applied until such time as Jeep have made a final decision on the fix.
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Moses, I agree that would be the perfect solution, Jeep owners would be happy and UK VOSA would also be content.
Interestingly on another forum someone has commented that their local Jeep garage has said that they are only interested in cars which do NOT have a towbar fitted.
I have also been sent a Reuters news report dated 15th November in which the following is said
"A Fiat Chrysler spokesman reiterated the company’s position that the Jeeps are safe and not defective"
I consider this an odd comment considering how many cars they have recalled
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Just been to check some documentation - my UK Registration Certificate (issued by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency - which is an executive agency for the Department of Transport) for my Jeep Cherokee has in the vehicle details the following:
Technical permissible maximum towable mass of the trailer:
braked (kg) 3500
Unbraked (kg) 750
Therefore in my opinion this confirms that Jeep have provided the towing capabilities to the UK Department of Transport.
My husband's car which has no towing capability has a zero figure in these detail boxes
You may find this uk website handy: http://www.uktow.com/index.asp
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Moses,
A couple of facts regarding towing in the UK
1.In all Jeep brochures the KJ is shown as a vehicle capable of towing up to 3300kg.
2. In one government advisory towing brochure the same model was shown towing a trailer and in a further picture a large caravan..
3. One major horsebox manufacturer also shows the Jeep Cherokee as the tow vehicle.
4. Many towing capacity towing websites in the UK show the towing capacity for the Jeep Cherokee
The particular Witter towbar fitted to my car was fitted on the day of registration, therefore in use for 10 years. If a towbar is fitted to a car in the UK is is inspected during the MOT which is a legal yearly test of any vehicle over three years old.
Therefore historically the Jeep Cherokee has since first used in the UK been shown as being capable of being a towing vehicle. For Jeep to now say that it should not be used for towing and that no UK vehicle should have its towbar replaced with another to solve the problem that has been found is absolutely ridiculous.
What would happen if it was announced in the USA that all Jeep LIbertys and Grand Cherokees could no longer be used for towing?????
Wd in the UK have not been given what I consider to be a sensible option of having a different/more acceptable towbar fitted. Our options are either no towbar or a vehicle that can't be insured.
Janet
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So Paul and Moses, if I capitulate and have the crossbeam fitted thereby preventing me from towing the horsebox, what are the chances of Jeep refunding any money I have to spend hiring a vehicle to take my horse to equestrian competition, including those that are currently sponsored by Jeep in the UK??????? IMHO absolutely ZERO. I would also be interested to know why Jeep bothered to find out my car registration number and why??
I have always been a fervent recommender of Jeep Cherokees in the UK Equestrian community, now I look a total idiot. I am seriously considering moving to of all things a KIA. Oh the shame
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Moses, whilst I appreciate that you are trying to allow Jeep to rectify this situation, in reality in the UK we are being presented with two options, to have the crossbeam fitted which will mean that we will no longer be able to use our vehicles for towing, or we sign a disclaimer which will no longer allow our vehicles to be insured. I have had conversations with many different authorities, Insurance Companies, VOSA, AA Legal Department, Jeep and my local garage. I have also noticed that as the majority of these vehicles in the UK are diesel powered they will have a different reaction to a high speed rear impact even with an ignition source. There are also cases where customers have been pressured into having crossbeams fitted due to emotional suggestions that they will be driving an illegal, uninsured vehicle. With regard to Mr Zanlunghi's email address, it is freely available, no subterfuge or illegal activity was used to obtain it. It was not until I emailed him directly that Jeep started to take me seriously. Prior to that I was just 'a little old lady' who could be ignored as I didn't know what I was talking about. Many people have advised me to go to the press, tv, etc but I have allowed Jeep the opportunity to answer me first. Platitudes of 'taking my concerns seriously' and 'in due course' do not help. I am also concerned that they now know my vehicle registration, I have certainly not given it to them. I will 'take the high road', but for how long with a car that I am not sure if I am insured to drive remains to be seen
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Ok a quick update - after several emails with no reply I sent the following to both Customer Relations and Steven Zanlunghi:
"I am disappointed that despite further emails to you I have still not received a reply. I have also been made aware of further information which infuriates me even more: I have provided the new information I have received below:
"I did some research on this for a friend who was having issues with the dealer doing the recall, and came across some info that may explain why the European recall doesn't allow for the installation of a towbar in the recall.
First, I came across this, As of the 1st of August 1998 all Passenger Carrying Vehicles up to 3500 kg Gross Vehicle Weight (M1 Vehicles) can only be fitted with European Type Approved towbars if the vehicle has received European Whole Vehicle Type Approval. Non M1 vehicles, Light Commercial Vehicles and private imports from outside the EEC are not required to use Approved Towbars.
Then, i came across this in another article, The Liberty, Patriot, and Cherokee have never been tested, and have not received (ECWVTA) certification. This is a direct quote from the article when they discussed the Patriot, Despite being launched here in 2007, the Patriot has never been tested. The ageing offering is set for replacement by a new compact SUV that will fill the role of both the Patriot and its edgier Compass sibling from 2016. Later in the article they also mention the Cherokee and Liberty as not being certified either.
I may be understanding this wrong, but, if i am understanding it right, because those Jeep models have never received the certification, then under European law, they cant be fitted with a towbar of any kind, which is why the recall doesn't allow for it in Europe."
As this debacle is allowed to rumble on with many, many people complaining about the poor or non-existant response from Jeep Customer Services, I feel it will only be a short period of time before a class action is brought against Jeep to rectify this situation that we find ourselves in through no fault of our own. This vehicle is advertised as having good towing abilities yet this fault will prevent us from doing just that.
Yet again I wait your response."
I have today received the following reply (BTW they have also done some checking because this time my vehicle reg is in the header - which I had not told them)
"Thank you for your further email addressed to Mr Steve Zanlunghi, our Managing Director. Your correspondence has been handed to me in order to ensure that it receives a prompt response.
I can confirm that we are currently reviewing this matter internally and I will come back to you in due course with a full response.
Please be assured that we are treating this matter with the utmost priority.
Kind Regards,"
Surprising there is no definition of 'in due course'. I won't be holding my breath
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OK so sh*t has just hit the fan - phone call from mechanic to 'update' me - their diagnostic machine is still not giving the information they need and unlike the response yesterday it appears that today my car DOES need the crossbeam - I am absolutely furious and am still waiting three days into a 1 day booking to find out what is going to happen.
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Hi Janet.
Also in the UK, we had our 2005 Jeep Cherokee booked in for the N46 recall this next Thursday, but were concerned about the dealership’s comments on signing a “disclaimer”. Hence my searching the internet, seeing your comments and joining this forum.
We purchased our Cherokee 4 years ago and have the previous owner’s service bills showing that the tow bar was fitted when the vehicle was 9 months old, (8,500 miles) by a Jeep main dealer at a cost of £547. (The Jeep is now 9 years old, 90,000.)
So the situation we have now is that unless the dealership on Thursday “passes the tow bar as acceptable” we either sign a disclaimer, with all the legal & insurance implications or we possess a Jeep with no tow bar.
We also bought our Jeep for towing a trailer.
We have decided to cancel our N46 appointment on Thursday and would be interested to hear about your responses from Jeep’s customer services.
I do appreciate that you have put a lot of work into pursuing Jeep UK (Fiat) so far.
OK from what I understood from my time at the stealership my current towbar was acceptable - it is a Witter one that was fitted at first registration by the Jeep dealer - for want of a better term it seems to protect the fuel tank as it sort of 'wraps the exposed area of the tank at the back - around it like a letter C - from my research as long as it is more than 40 or 44cm from the tank to the towbar, has no sharp edges and is not misshapen or damaged in any way you should be fine. IMHO I would absolutely not consider signing the waiver, it may lead anyone to be open to all sorts of legal/insurance problems. I have yet to hear of anyone having the crossbeam fitted, but the recall notices have only been sent out recently in the UK whereas in the USA they have know about this for a couple of years. Whereabouts are you based and which stealership are you taking your car to??
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Hi again, well the Jeep went into the stealership on Monday for the visual inspection (I had also requested a diagnostic check due to two error messages). The following has now occured:
1. Visual inspection carried out and car deemed as not requiring repair or fix
2. Intermediate service carried out (after they agreed to meet the price charged by my local mechanic) so that I would only be without my car for one dy rather than two
3. Diagnostic check proved to be 'inconclusive', their expensive diagnostic machine does not show the same codes that I get when rotating the ignition key, they are asking for technical advice from elsewhere!!
4. Several other 'faults' found on my vehicle, including some dealt with under warranty elsewhere.
So the upshot is that I sit here on Wednesday morning, still without my car, still not knowing about the diagnostic check and still unsure as to the cost of all this - I was quoted £120 ph for the diagnostic check, the service is an agreed price and the recall visual inspection is free. I am also concerned at the 'new faults' that they have allegedly found. I have contacted the garage that carried out the work under warranty, they are also concerned and I have arranged to take the car to them upon its return to me for their opinion. I really didn't want to take my car into the stealership, as I was concerned this would happen, given that this happened at a previous recall. When all is done I will be updating Customer Services and Steve Zanlunghi with my thoughts and concerns. I will let you now the outcome.
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Hi Moses, yep I have shared the US information with the dealership. Their answer was that if my vehicle needed the repair then they would remove my towhitch and replace it with a crossbeam. I would then NOT be able to have my towhitch replaced EVER or have any other towhitch fitted EVER. (My towhitch was fitted at point of purchase and is a WITTER towhitch - from my investigation this is the same as the MOPAR one - it fits around the fuel tank)This would obviously render this particular vehicle unfit for purpose as I would not be able to tow - the reason why I bought this particular vehicle in the first place - to tow a horsebox! However they then went on to say that IF my vehicle did require the repair I could sign a waiver form that would state that I did not want the repair carried out thereby keeping my tow hitch. My comment was then that they were in effect suggesting that I drive around in a possibly unsafe car. How would this affect my insurance and any possible legal action in the event of an accident.
So my next cause of action was to email the Chairman of Jeep UK (Fiat) Steve Zanlunghi on Thursday evening laying out my concerns and asking for his comment. I had a reply within 15 minutes of the opening of business on Friday. He informed me that he had passed my concerns to the Customer Service Department, who emailed me within two hours requesting further information on my vehicle and further contact details for me.
Obviously this scenario may not occur if my vehicle is not deemed as needing the repair, but I am concerned that some people in this country would feel pressured into signing the waiver to enable themselves to keep the towhitch and not consider the possible consequences.
I await the response from customer services !!!!!
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Hi, I have just received a recall notice fN46 for my Jeep KJ (Cherokee in the UK) - whilst your headline is that a Trailer Hitch is the fix, I have been advised by the stealership that if it is necessary to remove my trailer hitch to install a cross beam to repair the problem then they will NOT replace my trailer hitch afterwards and that I will have to pay to have it replaced. Yet in the USA a trailer hitch will be supplied and fitted for free.
How is this right?????
I wonder if Jeep will have the balls to sponsor any more equestrian events. 
Jeep KJ Liberty N46 Recall Trailer Hitch Fix
in Jeep® Liberty, Commander, Patriot and Compass
Posted
Further to my post on the 26th November when I advised that I had sent a letter to Fiat requesting answers to questions and a timeline, I have today received a letter stating that they will 'endeavour to provide a further update on this matter and answers to your questions by week commencing Monday 8th December.'
I await their response.......