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Hi Moses ive had a seal blow out in the steering box i have no idea why but ill give it all a good clean & polish the shaft & replace the seals

while i was at it i got carried away & pulled the engine out to put the 4.6 stroker ive had sitting in the corner of the shed in it so i took some pics of the empty engine bay to show you notice that the front 1/2 of the chasis is boxed back to the back end of the gear box

i bought an xj the other day it was only $1000 & came with a dead 1 for parts but it gets hot on the beach but is ok on the road

cheers  ian

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This is the exchange that followed Ian's sublet repair of the Saginaw sector shaft surface:

Hi Moses

i got the shaft back today it looks got to definately better than it did thats for sure

wont get a chance to fit any thing back up till next week im off to a cold chisel (iconic aussie rock band not sure how well known thry are in the states) this weekend

i took a pic but it fails when i try to load it ill try taking another pics & see if that loads

cheers  ian

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Wow, what a process!...Bronze should be hard enough to hold up against neoprene and not groove.  (Brass would be much softer.)  What was the cost?  The finish machining looks precise.  

You get to keep the original gear mesh pattern this way...Curious to see the higher res photos...Thanks for sharing the pic!

Moses

 

ill let you know what it cost when the bill arrives i didnt ask for a price as i needed it done & theyve always been reasonable

tried the higher res pics again no luck sorry

cheers  ian

 

Hi Moses i got the bill today came in at $146 a bit more than id hoped but labour costs are high in aus & it had to be done ,finding another shaft in good nick would have been next to impossible being right hand drive & built in limited numbers

cheers  ian

 

Ian...Not sure what the exchange value is in U.S.D. but the work looks very good, and there's machining as well as the bronze overlay process.

Ah, the right hand drive issue would be trying.  The left hand drive gear is basic and common, rotary valve Saginaw design has been a mainstay since 1959 in G.M. and other makes, a popular and reliable application.  In your case, this bronzing is a good approach.  Mixing used or new and used steering gear parts is risky.  The renewed shaft will restore the wear pattern of the power rack and sector teeth.  

Set the gear up to specification (precise worm shaft bearing preload and correct over-center sector mesh adjustment), and you should be in good shape!  During installation in the chassis, make sure the gear is on center with the front wheels pointed straight ahead!

Moses

 

Hi Moses

well the steering box has gone again i havent pulled it out yet to see what happened but it got be confused i thought that repair would have lasted for years i might do some research to see if its the same box in a rhd fsj theyll be a bit easier to source i would imagine

what a pain in the butt

cheers  ian

 

 

Hi, Ian...Did the sector seal blow again?  If so, this could be an internal seal leak or excessive pump pressure.  A clogged pump return can also raise pressures in the gear and blow a seal.  Given the loads that these Jeep CJ10s saw, the pressures within the Saginaw power steering gear and aging seals would certainly be cause for internal seal leaks.  If pressurized fluid is getting past the internal seals and reachng the sector, this could explain the ruptured original sector.  The sector shaft should be running true, and if the sector bearings are in a normal state, the sector shaft should not have excessive lateral/radial play.  If there is too much lateral/radial run-out of the sector shaft, the sector shaft seal will fail prematurely.

Did you replace the teflon seal(s) within the gear during your sector work?  This involves an inexpensive rebuild kit.  FYI, I quickly found Edelman and Gates rebuild kits for a 1984 Jeep J10 FSJ truck, which should be similar to your Saginaw power steering gear.  Check this out:

http://www.partsgeek.com/catalog/1984/jeep/j10/steering/steering_gear_rebuild_kit.html

Buying a used gear from another vehicle, especially an aged truck, is a gamble.  Buying a rebuilt steering gear, from what I've seen in the U.S., can also be a gamble.  The degree of restoration is often questionable, and you need a responsible shop with a knowledgeable, trained labor force to perform the work.  This is a common steering gear design, so the risk of incompetent workmanship is less.  If your current gear housing and hard parts are still intact, you have a rebuildable core, a basis for doing your own rebuild.  If you need another gear for a core, that gear should also be rebuilt.  "Good used" might apply for some parts but not for a 1980s era steering gear. 

I've glanced at Saginaw steering gear rebuild videos at YouTube (i.e., "free").  The information I've seen is either vague or incomplete.  Several videos looked like first-time rebuild attempts and left out key steps.  Rebuilding a steering gear involves safety concerns, and setting up the gear properly can assure a long service life.  I have the material to put a Vimeo On Demand streaming rental video together.  Would such a detailed how-to video on rebuilding your Saginaw gear be of value?  Would you pay a rental fee of, say, $4.99 (U.S.) for detailed step-by-step information?  I would set the video up as a 30-day rental period, available for streaming as many times as needed within that 30-day period.  I'm game if there's enough demand for this particular technical information and how-to.

Moses

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Hi Moses 

yes i was thinking there must be an internal leak causing too high pressure as i believe the shaft is running true & the bearing was replace the first time & i didnt replace the teflon seals only the seals on the output shaft 

so i guess ill have to pull the whole box down & replace the seals etc on the input shaft

those kits you have sent the link for look like they would solve the problem ill have a search to see if i can get 1 from someone who will ship to aus

thanks for your help again this forum is the most helpful on the internet when it comes to trouble shooting jeep problems

cheers  ian

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Hi Moses ive contacted my local auto parts supplier & given them the job of chasing the rebuild kit so they should have an answer for me early next week (monday's a public holiday) ill let you know how it goes

cheers  ian

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Ian...If the housing, sector and power piston/nut are okay, an internal reseal should do it!  I would also consider testing the power steering pump pressure to be safe.

I'm going to do the Saginaw how-to rebuild video for Vimeo On Demand.  There are huge numbers of these Saginaw gears out there. (Rotary Valve Saginaw design was introduced in 1959 on higher end GM cars.)  From the mid-'sixties onward, they have been common to Jeep, Ford, GM and I-H trucks and utility vehicles, a much larger cohort than just Jeep or CJ.

Glad you're undertaking the project...

Moses

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Hi Moses

i ended up ordering the edelmann kit through summit as partsgeek wont post to aus & my local store was a bit to pricey ill make sure i take lots of pics as i do the rebuild it may help others out if they need to repair similar steering boxes

ill let you know when it arrives

cheers  ian

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Ian...Your should be happy with the Edelmann parts...I'll keep members posted on the availability of the Vimeo On Demand tech how-to.  Halfway through the video production process, will update!

Moses

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Hi Moses

the rebuild kit arrived & looks to be good quality so i stripped the steering box & found a lot of scoring in the bores bot the piston bore & the spoil valve bore i think ill try using a hone to improve them the best i can but some of the wear is quite deep the pics dont really show how bad it is but some of the grooves are probably 10 to 20 thou deep ive got a mate whos a mechanic by trade so ill show him tomorow to get his opinion but i think its give the hone a go or get a replacement

cheers  ian

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it seem that the input shaft on my box is larger than the seals that were supplied in the kit also the bearing is to small but mine is fine so i just need 2 seals & an o ring ill go to the bearing shop tomorow & see if theyve got what i need

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Ian, I would find a rebuildable core of matching bore diameter and other features. The housing bore looks badly damaged.  These wear grooves in the housing bore are where the piston's seal ring pressure is bleeding off and blowing the sector seals.  If you attempt to use this gear housing, you will be unhappy with the rebuild when the leaks resume—quickly.  The teflon rings will be severely damaged by these bore grooves as well.

Find a used core that matches the piston bore, stub spline input teeth/size, pitman spline size and housing mounting bolt pattern.  The 700 and 800 series gears are reasonably plentiful, you should be able to find a rebuildable unit.  You now have the parts for resealing the core you find.  Nothing lost here.

Make sure you use the piston and sector that match, do not mix between two steering gears, as this upsets the tooth contact pattern.  Likewise, use the better rotary valve and valve housing that match up and have a good fit.  The piston on your current gear shows some significant scoring.

Looks like you found the source for your leaking seals and why the sector repair alone did not cure the seal leak at the sector shaft/pitman end.

Moses 

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Hi Moses

as it may take some time to find another steering box due to the rarity of these vehicles around here so ive given it a good hone & assembled & installed the steering box 

there was always a slight bypassing noise when turning the wheel but this seems to have gone now so maybe itll last till i find a doner vehicle ive been keeping my eye out for a parts car but most have been far to costly some even more than i paid for my good 1

cheers  ian

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Hi, Ian...Glad you recognize the need to replace the gear housing.  When you find a rebuildable core, your skills at rebuilding the gear will be in place.  By now, you should be good at rebuilding the Saginaw Rotary Valve gears!

I'm not optimistic about the lifespan of the reseal on this scarred and worn housing, the bore is damaged badly, and the piston surface looks rough.  Let us know how this box holds up as you search for a rebuildable core...Be safe.

Moses

 

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Hi Moses

I finally managed to get a donor vehicle x2 1is an 82 fsj the other is an 83 fsj 1 is a good runner with a gm 6.2l v8 diesel from a humvee the other is a parts car ill post a pic in the fsj section of the forum

cheers  ian

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oh & by the way the steering box rebuild i did is still going well no sings on leaks or noise so im happy with that for now but now i have 2 more ill rebuild the best 1 for the cj10

cheers  ian

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