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Hello fellow jeepers, I'm new to the forum and wanted to share my current project. I have an old flat fender that's been in the family for around 30 years that was in dire need of restoration. It's turned into a ground up, the frame was twisted and severed in the middle and the tub was all rusted out. I completely rebuilt the frame, straightened it all out and reinforced the weak areas. I didn't box the frame as I want to retain some flex. I did some extensive panel replacing and patching on the tub and built new floor pans for the front and rear. The axles are stock D44 rear and a custom built super 44 up front. I still have the Dana 18 tore apart, but ready for assembly. I had to find a shop that could replace and fit a new bushing for the output shaft. Other than that it's getting a full rebuild kit. The Jeep has a T19 from an IH, it is still in great shape and will only get a small parts kit. The engine that was in it was a tired 225 with a cracked block. I got a couple other oddfires when I bought the Jeep and decided to rebuild another 225. After going through the cleaning machine, my machinist found some deep pitting in some of the cylinders. The block was already .030  and with advice from TA Performance we took it to .070 and they ordered me some .020 Buick 350 pistons from Egge. Apparently they have seen a 225 bored .090 over without structural or cooling issues. Once I had those my shop sent everything in for a full balance. They refreshed the heads with new springs, exhaust valves+hardened seats, valve job,and new seals. I did some minor porting and cleaned up the runners to smooth the air flow. It's not a race engine but even the small improvements go a long ways. I still need to port match the heads in addition to the offy intake and the headers. I had Delta cam in Tacoma build a strong low-end torque cam. 

I was searching for some info last night, do you know what the combustion chamber size is on the 225 heads? Egge couldn't tell me what to expect for static c.r.

That's probably enough for now. I'll post pictures in the days to come.

Edited by 53HiHood

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53HiHood...I am excited about your CJ3B!  What a gem...and kept in the family, too!

Photos of your work will be valued by the members and guests, please share.  I'm curious about your frame fix and the powertrain layout on this 80" wheelbase chassis.  Short spacing for all that machinery.  Does the engine set forward to keep the transfer case and drivelines in stock location?  What is the steering system?

As for combustion chamber size for the 225 V-6, I only have stats for the 1979-up (later generation 231 even-fire crankshaft) Buick 231 V-6:  slightly over 48 cc volume per chamber.  Your safest bet, especially if the heads have been decked or milled, and if the block is decked or surfaced as well, would be your own 'cc volume check.  You'll have to consider piston crown height or dish to compare with stock piston design.  As you know, crowns, dishing or valve relief differences account for volume.  You can 'cc the piston valve reliefs or piston dish if desired.  (I'm guessing these pistons are flat top or even dished?)  Some of this becomes academic overkill...On the later 231 V-6, the head gasket (composition like FelPro or Victor) volume is typically 8.25-8.4 cubic centimeters.  Doubled up steel shim gaskets (racing) are around 8 cc, more common use of single steel shim would be approximately 4 cc per cylinder.

Note: As a rule of thumb with your oversize pistons at 0.070", I would use a thicker composition head gasket!  Shim/steel would really boost compression, you don't want that with your camshaft and pump octane fuel.  Let us know what kind of compression you achieve and fuel type you can run.  For our street/trail vehicles, I strive for 87-octane unleaded tolerant, adjusting spark timing to compensate if necessary.

Summit Racing sells 'cc kits for reference if you do not want to sublet this task:

Inexpensive but functional, good for seldom use... http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-4994/overview/ 

More sophisticated for ongoing usage... http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-4974/overview/

Testimonial to the block integrity if you can bore to 0.070" without issue...Did they ultrasound check the wall thickness after boring?  These are iron monsters in miniature, evolved from the nail-head era engines.  Tough critters!  

I would hold to maximum 8.7:1 compression for your camshaft and use of unleaded fuel.  8.5:1 would be plenty for practical use and your low-end camshaft.  I like high low-speed manifold vacuum and a quick torque rise...Glad you did the hardened valve seats, well worth the expense with unleaded fuel.  Members with V-6 Dauntless engines will want to see your port matching and minor porting...

Looking forward to seeing your work and Jeep!

Moses

Edited by Moses Ludel

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My hope was to stay with or close to the factory c.r. but piston options are limited. We'll see once I cc the heads, deck height, and pistons.

The frame was extended in the front to accommodate longer springs, they were rancho wide cj springs but I just picked up a full set of new superlift yj springs at the swap meet in Puyallup WA last spring.

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The Jeep's. The yeller one is the current project. Ol blue was a great find. Rust free top to bottom. No powertrain yet. I'm undecided on its future. The frame is pictured below, post sand blasting. It's actually severed in the middle, right in front of the forward rear spring hangers. The following picture is the reinforcing I did to keep it in one piece. I'll have to jump on my laptop later to post more pictures, using my tablet is a joke, very frustrating. The forum must not be mobile friendly. More to come!

 

 

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53HiHood...Well-conceived and executed welding and support...The "stitch" approach with staggered beads and voids, instead of continuous beads, provides strength-and-flexibility.  The semi-"plug welds" at the drilled top holes should work well, round and better suited than a full plug weld in this case...Looks like ER70S-2 or ER70S-6 0.035" wire with MIG/GMAW process?  Plenty of strength and ductility.  As you've discovered, these riveted crossmember frames are highly "flexible" and considered a moving suspension member in the day, prime candidates for fatigue over time.  Very well done! 

Vintage Jeep owners, especially those with 1972-75 CJ models and higher torque engines, should take note here...The point of frame breakage on 53HiHood's Jeep CJ-3B was right on par.  I discuss this in my books.  It is quite common for the Jeep CJ frames to break at the end of the boxed frame section, which happens to dovetail with where the front spring anchor points drive considerable punishment into the frame section between the boxed rail ends and the open C-channel!  Trail running flexes or "bows" the frame at this point and adds to the stress...even worse on '72-'75 CJ frames.  

Additionally, leaf springs don't compress lengthwise, and the stock rear anchors at the front springs drive energy into the weak point:  the end of the boxed frame and beginning of the C-channel rails.  When pushing against trail debris or rocks with the front tires, the springs force energy into the frame at the anchor points.  Also lacking in this design, the entire front axle assembly gets "pushed" down the road from the rear spring anchors and frame brackets!

One fix or alleviation for this trouble is a front spring "shackle reversal" that puts the anchor at the front of the front spring and the hanger at the rear of the springs.  This is not "extraordinary", the M38A1 did it, and my 1955 CJ-5 had it stock (likely a factory M38A1 frame).  With a shackle reversal, the front springs pivot/anchor from the front, which reduces the jamming effect when butted against a rock wall or trail obstacle.  Also, the axle trails from the frame, which contributes to better handling and steering control.

If anyone with a Jeep CJ would like to discuss the front spring shackle reversal further, open up a fresh topic, and we'll go from there!  

Moses

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I haven't done anything like this before, in fact is was the first time using a MIG welder, but I figured I needed to try to retain the factory flex but reinforce the weak spots. I also cut the first inch or so of the welds on the boxes sections. My reasoning there was to take the stress off the frame because the steel used for the boxes sections is thicker gauge. If any cracks should develop in the future it will be at the word instead of the frame itself, at least that's the hope.

That is interesting about the spring mounts, must be why my Dad did that some 30 years ago. The shackle mount for the front spring is actually in the frame too, you can see it in the picture showing the work I did on the frame.

This Jeep definitely saw a lot of abuse over the years, a lot of miles in the central Washington Cascades and Oregon sand dunes. I'll get some pics of the tub posted. Just a fair warning, I'm not an auto body technician. I'm building this Jeep for jeeping, not car shows. I'm going for strength, durability, and function.tmp_17797-IMG_20150311_200402_5954706383tmp_17797-IMG_20150302_190051_4511662180tmp_17797-IMG_20150305_170338_114-696046tmp_17797-IMG_20150327_214258_8291122080tmp_17797-IMG_20140514_181619_8827927269

 

 

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I'll get some more shots of the new floor pans and over-engineered floor supports. Later this week I'll be mocking up suspension mounts for the shocks and roll cage to frame mounts. After much thought, I want the roll cage to be rigid as it will contain the seats, harnesses, etc, but I want the frame to flex. The solution I came up with are similar to the body mounts you would see on a cab chassis service truck or large fuel/water truck. There is a large heavy duty spring on each bolt that isolates the flex in the frame.

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You can see shoe prints on the back floor pan, I had to test our work with the jump test. Very solid. The bottom pic shows the extent of deterioration. We did a lot of cutting, bending, and welding.

 

 

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Edited by 53HiHood
added another picture

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53HiHood...I'd like to see your spring bolt approach to the frame-to-body mounts...innovative with a real world precedent!  

Is the cage attached only to the body?  For the book project, I did a frame mounted clam shell approach with the 1955 Jeep CJ-5.  That works if you have conventional body-to-frame mount cushions.  However, spring loaded body mounts would be compromised by the clam shell method unless the clam shell section was also spring loaded; this would require ridged cage attachment at the body and a solid frame pedestal.  There would be a gapped or flexible section, using spring loaded hardware, between the body's underside at the cage feet and the pedestal...

Note:  This all comes down to whether you want the body to stay attached to the frame in the event of a major rollover.  There are arguments both ways, racing rules typically call for an integrated, frame-mounted cage.  Recreational 4x4s most often do not tie the cage to the frame.  Most of us have seen the YouTube video of a Jeep YJ Wrangler body being ripped off the frame during an ill-conceived winch pull with the cable attached to the roll cage.  This is clearly a body-only attached cage! 

With either cage mounting approach, make sure your cage's mounting points at the tub are spreading the load over a wide enough sheet metal/reinforcement area to keep the cage from tearing loose from the body in the event of a rollover.  Your tub, especially with the floor pan reinforcements, should be a decent structural unit.  The strategy of making sure the seats, harnesses and cage stay affixed to the body is wise.  

Note that aftermarket safety harnesses and seat frames typically use large diameter, thick and graded washers beneath the floor to spread the load beyond just a drilled hole in the stock floor pan's sheet metal.  You can make backup metal plates that will spread the load at these mounting points; envision where the stress will be.  Always use quality safety equipment and suitable hardware for seats and harnesses.  Modern OEM seat and safety belt hardware can serve as examples.  See how floorboards are reinforced at the seat frame and safety belt attachment points.

Moses

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I should clarify, the roll cage will be mounted directly to the frame via the mounts I mentioned with the springs. I have not built them yet, but they will be a "clam shell" design with heavy duty springs on large Grade 8 bolts that will allow some flex at the mounting point. I will have to really look at the shear strength of the hardware used and find a balance on spring length that will allow the frame to flex but not compromise the mounts ability to secure the roll cage to the frame.

The tub will have no structural duties as the seats and harnesses will be mounted to the cage. The current design of the cage had it mounted to the tub.

Here is an example of the cage to frame mount I'm considering, except the mounts I will be building will capture the circumference of the frame rail and be removable.20131109-212506.thumb.jpg.b5dfec19187fff

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Exactly what I envisioned, you're on it, 53HiHood!  This should be one flexible Jeep, something Willys, Kaiser and AMC each did through the use of flexing frames on the CJs.  Of course, these frames fatigue over time from the flexing...AMC did take the CJ into the boxed frame era, a '76 up CJ-7 frame will still flex nearly a foot end-to-end when handled bare and twisted.  Later models like the YJ, TJ and JK each were progressively stiffer frames.  On these newer chassis, the suspension has been relegated to springs, link arms and shock absorbers, the modern paradigm for light trucks as well.  You can tune suspension (sway and track controls included) much more readily with a stiffer frame.

Really nice work on your '3B...Will be interesting to see if these springs require adjustment over time, if so, likely not much.  What was the source for these springs, they look like progressively wound engine valve springs.  

As for hardware, you know the two schools:  Higher tensile Grade 8 has its place for applications not requiring ductility.  For shock and shear loads, ductility and elongation can often be desirable.  Traditional shear-plane winch mounting was Grade 5 for a reason: The bolts will yield and stretch or give minutely under shock or shear stress.  Grade 8, once the tensile is max'd, will snap off or shear.  We've all seen this phenomenon.  

Use your tensile charts, you can always step up in bolt/nut size to compensate for the use of Grade 5 or 6.  When space/sizing is a concern, Grade 8 does have its place—and limits.  Whatever grade/tensile you choose, match that grade with the washers, nuts and bolts.  For atmosphere and temperature exposure, I prefer top lock steel nuts rather than nylon insert locking nuts.  Loctite is just insurance, though it does help maintain torque on rigid fasteners

Moses

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Great info on the hardware. Once I get there I'll be tapping into your knowledge. I haven't sourced springs yet, the photo is just an example. The jeep has been set aside while I finish my snow bike build. I'm fabbing up an offroad wheel kit that I can strap to the front ski to allow me to get to the snow easier.

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Curious to hear how quickly you can do the back-and-forth (dirt to snow and back) conversion on the CRF450...Is the CRF450 plated or toted?

Moses

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I think switching back to dirt gear could be done in an hour. The install of the snow kit might take longer due to the brake bleeding and it's size. It's not very heavy, I can still lift the bike and spin it around with the kit installed.

Back to the Jeep. I did just get in a stainless engine bolt kit and some fancy Dauntless V6 decals for the valve covers. I'll get started back up on that project likely tomorrow.

Here's a shot of my bike up at Mt. Baker today. More pics in the enduro forum.IMG_20160227_123950803_HDR.thumb.jpg.7ab

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We had a pretty good weekend at the Moonshiners 4x4 swap meet in Puyallup. Picked up a new 12 circuit wiring harness made in the US of A by a company called Rebel Wiring over in Tennessee. Also found a new back seat, some very clean Buick V6 valve covers, and probably the best find of the weekend, a new adjustable roll-around shop stool for $5. Between that and building snowbike wheel kits I haven't spent much time working on the Jeep project. I did get the Spicer 18 assembled on Friday. It went together fairly easy with the help of my Jeep book. I also came to the conclusion that my magnetic base for my dial indicator is garbage. I reassembled the heads tonight, I kept it pretty mild with the porting work. Hopefully tomorrow I'll have time to cc the heads.

 

 

 

 

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Pure gold, 53HiHood!  Really like your "eyes" open to the stuff that matters.  This Jeep engine will be a gem...Nice book there on the bench!  I appreciate the kudos, glad the Spicer Model 18 build went well!

I copy/posted these tool remarks at the tool and equipment forum...Thanks for sharing, others will gain insights here!

Moses

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