biggman100 Posted September 6, 2013 Share Posted September 6, 2013 This is one i cant seem to get a direct, positive, and useful answer on. I am working on a 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo AWD that snapped the lug studs while driving and then subsequently destroyed the front ball joint. I have the new ball joint, and it looks to be a press in, but i cant tell if it presses out from the top of the A-arm or the bottom. Because everything in the front is aluminum, i dont want to try and press it the wrong way and break anything. There is a lip on the bottom of the ball joint, but at the top it has two tabs folded over the A-arm, so im not sure if i am supposed to push the tabs back in and then press it out from the top or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted September 6, 2013 Administrators Share Posted September 6, 2013 The best way to illustrate this lower ball joint removal is with shop photos. These will help you determine the tools and objectives for this project—and whether you want to tackle it! These are the "REMOVAL" illustrations. This is the installation illustration. Here are the steps involved: REMOVAL Remove the tire and wheel assembly. Remove the brake caliper and rotor. Disconnect the tie rod (2) from the steering knuckle (4) using special tool C-3894-A (1). Separate the upper ball joint (2) from the knuckle (3) using special tool 8677 (1) Separate the lower ball joint (3) from the steering knuckle (1) using special tool 8677 (2). Remove the steering knuckle. Remove the clevis bracket and move the half shaft to the side and support the half shaft out of the way 4X4 only. NOTE: Extreme pressure lubrication must be used on the threaded portions of the tool. This will increase the longevity of the tool and insure proper operation during the removal and installation process. Press the ball joint from the lower control arm (3) using special tools C-4212-F (PRESS) (1), C–4212–3 (Driver) (2) and 9654–3 (Receiver) (4). INSTALLATION and TOOLS REQUIRED 1 - C-4212-F PRESS 2 - 9654-2 RECEIVER 3 - LOWER CONTROL ARM 4 - BALL JOINT 5 - 9654-1 DRIVER NOTE: Extreme pressure lubrication must be used on the threaded portions of the tool. This will increase the longevity of the tool and insure proper operation during the removal and installation process . Install the ball joint (4) into the control arm (3) and press in using special tools C-4212-F (press) (1), 9654–1 (Driver) (5) and 9654–2 (Receiver) (2). Stake the ball joint flange in four evenly spaced places around the ball joint flange, using a chisel and hammer. Remove the support for the half shaft and install into position, then install the clevis bracket. 4X4 only. Install the steering knuckle. Install the tie rod end into the steering knuckle. Install and tighten the half shaft nut to 251 N·m (185 ft. lbs.) (if equipped). Install the brake caliper and rotor. Check the vehicle ride height. Perform a wheel alignment. These tools are OTC/Miller/SPX, and if you need more information, go to the Miller Tool listing for Chrysler tools. Plug in these numbers in the Part Number search box. Judge whether you can do the job based upon your tool access. If you have more questions, I'm available... Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggman100 Posted September 6, 2013 Author Share Posted September 6, 2013 Thank you, Moses. I knew i could count on you for the right way to do this. I have the haynes manual for the jeep, but their instructions for it werent too clear, the photos or diagrams are almost useless for the ball joint procedure. I have a ball joint remover/installer set, which is similar to the 6289A Bosch set shown on the Miller tools site, but until i knew for sure how the ball joint came out, i didnt want to try and just press it out and break something else. I made the mistake once of pressing out the upper ball joint on a 1991 Dakota, and then found out it was a thread in type, and didnt want to make the same mistake again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted September 6, 2013 Administrators Share Posted September 6, 2013 Let me know how this turns out, Biggman100...As for the Dakota pickup and other traditional Chrysler cars and trucks, many find the threaded A-arms and control arms strange. Strange or not, that's the OEM approach. For some applications, the aftermarket replacement ball joint (typically the lower joint on many older Chrysler passenger cars) may be unthreaded and a "press-in" type. This is good for one time, as flattening the original control arm threads may grip once but will not offer enough tension for a subsequent ball-joint change. On the magazine's OTC hub puller coverage, I also show the correct "square" socket for the threaded Chrysler ball joints: http://www.4wdmechanix.com/HD-Video-Tool-How-to-Using-the-OTC-7394-Hub-Puller.html. Regarding service information, I have used the factory workshop and service manuals and the traditional professional trade manuals like Motors, Glenn's, Mitchell and Chilton (hardbound professional trade type. I bought my first Motors manual in 1968, and that manual is now bookended by Motors passenger car and truck manuals covering 1926 to 1980. I use these manuals for the forums constantly. Research for each of my books relied on OEM shop manuals for first generation data and details. My print library is stacked with OEM Jeep, G.M., Ford, Toyota and Harley-Davidson manuals. I seldom work on either the XJ Cherokee or the Dodge Ram 3500 without first consulting the Mopar factory shop manual. CDs are now available (like my 2005 Ram/Mopar Truck Service Manual), and you can source used OEM manuals and even reprints in some cases. With this said, I do find errors on rare occasions, when one year's data gets translated incorrectly or a torque figure is inaccurate. For working on your Dakota, I would use the Mopar manual, as I do with my Ram. Good backup for a Jeep, too. An alternative for a shop or even a one-time home project is the Mopar official TechAuthority II subscriptions or short-term "rental" access. Check out the website at: http://www.techauthority.com. Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggman100 Posted September 7, 2013 Author Share Posted September 7, 2013 On the Dakota, when i pressed the upper ball joint out, i ended up having to replace the control arm, because it ruined the threads in the control arm, and the ball joint wouldnt thread back in. I saw the socket shown in the how-to you posted, and I posted a question in the Dodge truck section about that socket. After seeing what you posted about how to remove the ball joint, i put my press on it, and didnt even have to put a lot of pressure on it, and the ball joint popped right out. I wont know until tomorrow as to how well the new one goes back in, because the parts store didnt have the new ball joint in stock, so it had to be ordered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted September 7, 2013 Administrators Share Posted September 7, 2013 Since you pressed the joint out of the threads, this is different than unthreading the old joint and pressing a new one (non-thread type) into intact threads. I'm suspect that the material removed will make the fit too loose. Also, depending upon which control arm, the replacement joint may only be available as thread type. If you want a preliminary sense for the fit, measure the I.D. of the control arm bore as accurately as you can with a caliper. Then measure the new joint before putting your earned money on the parts counter. Unless there is clear evidence that a press-in ball joint is large enough in diameter to make for a tight fit, I would get a "good used" or new control arm and the thread-in type ball joint if available. Warning: One control arm requires a threaded type ball joint to prevent the steering knuckle from dislodging the ball-joint under load. The other joint may have the option of an unthreaded replacement design. Your parts supply, if they ordered the correct ball-joint(s), should be able to distinguish which joint can be unthreaded on your Dakota application. Again, an unthreaded new joint must fit through the control arm bore tightly! Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggman100 Posted September 7, 2013 Author Share Posted September 7, 2013 The upper one is threaded, and the lower one is a standard press in on the 1988 to 1996 dakota, and after i pressed out the threaded ball joint on my 1991, i decided it was better to just find a good used upper control arm, instead of trying to just force a different ball joint in the ruined control arm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted September 7, 2013 Administrators Share Posted September 7, 2013 If it's the upper joint, and it was originally threaded, the replacement must be threaded type...There's no choice here. Time for a new or good used control arm... Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggman100 Posted September 7, 2013 Author Share Posted September 7, 2013 Moses, we did it again, and got kind off topic by switching from one vehicle to another. The Dakota i was referring to in this, my old 1991 4x4, i owned back in 1997, and it was the first time i had ever done a ball joint on one of those trucks, and it was the last time i tried to press an upper one out of a Dakota. I agree though, if the control arm is threaded for the ball joint, and those threads get messed up in any way, the ONLY proper fix is to replace the control arm, no matter what vehicle it is on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted September 7, 2013 Administrators Share Posted September 7, 2013 The 2005 Grand Cherokee is the one with the ball-joint currently on order? Not the Dakota? Got it... When we change subjects or vehicle types, probably best to "Start a Topic" elsewhere...It's natural for us to digress, it's just confusing when we lose track of vehicles! We'll work on this... Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggman100 Posted September 7, 2013 Author Share Posted September 7, 2013 Yes, the Jeep is the one in need of a ball joint. The Dakota was done years ago, and i originally used it as an example of why i didnt want to do anything with the Jeep until i knew the right way to do it, and then we got sidetracked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted September 7, 2013 Administrators Share Posted September 7, 2013 We're all in the habit of running with a thread...Kind of fun at times, the discussion gets lively! We'll take time to start new topics when we drift off-topic...I'm working on it! Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbevrotte Posted August 12, 2014 Share Posted August 12, 2014 I have a 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee. I am trying to replace the ball joints. I have replaced the lowers and have questions on the uppers. Should I remove the control arm first and then remove the upper out of the control arm? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted August 13, 2014 Administrators Share Posted August 13, 2014 Hello, bbevrotte! Welcome to the forums...Since you didn't get an immediate response, here's my take. First off, according to Mopar parts references, the upper control arm with ball-joint is a single, unit-piece replacement item: Mopar Part #52090206AF or the current supercedure. If that's true of the aftermarket, you're replacing the arm as a whole and not just the ball-joint. Look into this and let us know. If the ball-joint is a separate replacement item now, continue as I describe below...Here is the parts schematic (zoom into the page for detail) that covers your WK Grand Cherokee: WK Jeep Grand Cherokee Front Suspension Parts.pdf If you review the lower control arm ball-joint steps at the top of this topic, you will see that the task for the upper ball-joint would be the same through Step #4. First, I would make sure that you have the C-press and tools. (For occasional use, Harbor Freight has a nice knock-off kit for both a C-press with sleeves and a 4x4 additional sleeve kit to round out these tools. The 4x4 kit is more for beam axle ball joints, though you might find the sleeves helpful.) Prepare for removing the control arm but don't do so unless you cannot get the C-press to fit safely on the ball-joint of the upper control arm. After loosening the upper ball-joint stud, you should have decent range of movement at the upper control arm. If enough range to get the C-press into position with the control arm still attached, simply remove and install the ball-joint. If not, either remove the upper control arm or, if somehow easier, first remove the knuckle and half-shaft. A General Ball-Joint Warning: Always be clear whether a ball-joint is a press-in type or a thread-in type. Do not force a threaded ball-joint loose with a press or C-press, you will ruin the control arm or beam axle! Use the proper size and type socket on a threaded ball-joint. Click here to see an example of a threaded ball-joint application for a Chrysler passenger car or IFS light truck. At the lower part of the article, you'll see the OTC ball-joint removal socket. Note that the ball-joint will have a hex-head or similar means for rotating the joint with a specialty socket. If there is simply a shoulder that accepts a press sleeve, with no flats or slots, the ball-joint is a press-in type. Let us know how this works. If you encounter any difficulty, post here, and we'll walk through the installation. If this turns out a straightforward project, please share your findings and results. Let us know your Grand Cherokee suspension is safely back together! I'm quite puzzled why we're replacing ball-joints on these '05-up Grand Cherokees already. The beam axle WJ steering knuckle ball-joints would last for an incredibly long while, like other beam axle parts. What's with the ball-joints on these later IFS models? Is your vehicle modified/lifted? Oversize tires? How many miles on the odometer now? Driven off-road a lot? Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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