Mike House Posted September 25, 2021 Share Posted September 25, 2021 Hi Moses, I have made the decision to upgrade the steering on the 3b. Based on my online research and reading my "Rebuilders Manual" it looks like the Saginaw upgrade is the way to go. I believe I will buy the kit from Advanced Adapters and most like the steering box from them as well. This actually looks like a pretty straight forward upgrade. I don't think I will change out the column. I will just stick with the original. Any words of wisdom or pitfalls to avoid in the process? Thanks, Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted September 26, 2021 Administrators Share Posted September 26, 2021 Wise move, Mike. Alignment of the gear, steering shaft, column, one piece tie-rod and the rest is important. Make sure the steering gear is on dead center with the front wheels aligned and pointed straight forward. Are you using a later upper steering column like my book example? That provides a stable mounting arrangement at the firewall. If you follow protocol, you'll be very pleased with the improved steering and superior vehicle control. Are you doing a shackle reversal at the front springs? If so, this would be the time to do it. Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike House Posted September 26, 2021 Author Share Posted September 26, 2021 Thanks for the pointers! I will have to do a bit more reading. I had planned on using the stock steering column and I’m not familiar with the benefit of the shackle reversal. I will get back into the book and spend a little more time researching the steering column. Fall weather has arrived here in Middle GA so its time to get back to work in the garage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted September 26, 2021 Administrators Share Posted September 26, 2021 Yes, Mike, the fall reprieve...I know the feeling. One day this coming week drops to a high of 69 and 35 overnight then creeps back into the low eighties (daytime). We're still at least a month from steady cold. It's optimal now for shop work with the doors open most of the day. See pages 403-411 in my Jeep® CJ Rebuilder's Manual: 1946-71. I used a 1970 era GM pickup truck steering column and a large diameter Grant steering wheel for my conversion. This worked out nicely for a Saginaw recirculating ball-and-nut manual steering gear conversion. When picking a steering column, measure where you want the steering wheel to stand and how far to the firewall bracket. See the column and steering shaft alignment in my book illustrations and decide whether this works for the V-6 engine's position and clearance in your CJ3B engine bay. Some position the gear differently, we can discuss options. You want to keep the column complete/intact. My CJ-5 is one example of how this can be done. Advance Adapters (AA) gives you the option of keeping the original vintage Jeep steering column and shortening it. A bearing/bushing gets placed at the AA firewall bracket. AA has traditionally used a bronze bushing here. I prefer either a sealed or greasable bearing at the lower end of the steering column. (The steering shaft below the column usually has sealed joints.) See whether the current AA/Borgeson kits have that feature. Look closely at my installation. You'll see why and how I use a complete GM steering column to get a column with OEM lower and upper bearings. The Grant steering wheel kit was for the GM pickup truck column. I chose a large diameter Grant steering wheel that works with the installation kit. Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike House Posted September 27, 2021 Author Share Posted September 27, 2021 I am sure that the cooler weather this week is only a teaser and we will have to wait for fall to fully set in. It has been a mild summer though and hopefully fall and winter will will see more cool temps! It looks like the AA kit does include a bushing for the lower end of the steering shaft tube. So if I keep the stock steering shaft and tube it seems like I would need more support where the tube and shaft ends and the first U-Joint sends the shaft towards the steering box. If I take a step back and think about this long term rather than how bad I want to cross the finish line the right choice is to upgrade the column at this time...... The good thing is that I have a good bit of work to do on the jeep still so I have some time to make that decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted September 27, 2021 Administrators Share Posted September 27, 2021 Mike...I was pleased with my choice. You have turn signals built into the modern column, which does require wiring from the steering column. A horn, too. The wiring is not difficult to sift out and results in a better electrical system. Be sure to fuse the wires, a fuse box like Painless Products can help here. The bronze bushing is the concern for me. If you do the AA approach with a shortened original column, consider upgrading the bushing to a bearing. You're familiar with bearing mounts and plates from your mill work. I'd be curious to see your solution if you do use the AA approach. The other concern is the mating of the original steering shaft to the open (lower) shaft. At one time AA did this coupling with set screws against the original steering shaft tube. You and I would expect a welded, splined or keyway approach. I'm not sure what the present AA kit's steering shaft is about, but a safe "OEM" equivalent method would be my approach. I am a fan of double-D solid shafts with set screws that use lock nuts. Other acceptable methods include splines, a key way with key and set screws or safe welding that is consistent with OEM standards. Steering is always safety first. My upper column was the complete OEM '70 GM pickup assembly, already engineered and proven. I used Flaming River double-D lower steering shaft components. AA uses Borgeson, which is also quality product and safe. The concern is safe joints and couplings—especially with manual steering. There is more load on the steering shaft and joints. For nearly a decade now, Borgeson has been the national supplier for Saginaw manual steering gears. Advance Adapters should have the components that you want. The AA pre-cut steering gear mounting plates are excellent and will require welding to your frame. When installing the gear, I suggest tack welds only until you're confident of the steering shaft and gear alignment. The one-piece tie-rod and drag link ("short tie-rod") eliminate unnecessary, sloppy bellcrank movement for more positive steering. To avoid bump steer, keep the drag link slope at a reasonable minimum, measured with the Jeep resting at static curb height with springs/axles supporting the vehicle weight. Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike House Posted November 9, 2021 Author Share Posted November 9, 2021 Ok so I have made some progress on the steering upgrade. I decided to use the original steering column. I can always go back and add a GM column or other after market column if I am not happy with the original. my single biggest challenge was time. Completing an upgrade like this is not too complicated but it is critical that it’s done correctly and requires focus and dedicated time. Seems I only got an hour at a time at best between work and family! Oh and hunting season! 🙂 I have not welded everything out yet but I think I like how it came together and will weld it out this weekend. My crossmember was overkill but this is the piece of tubing I had in the shop so I used it. It’s 3”x3”x1/4 wall square tube. I chose to mount the steering box high to keep it more level and to reduce the angle on the steering shaft. the AA kit comes with everything a person should need provided you have a pretty straight line from the bottom of the steering column to the steering box. I did not and my angle was too steep for the U Joints on the steering shaft so I added another joint and a support bearing. I am happy with the angles of the long and short tie rods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted November 9, 2021 Administrators Share Posted November 9, 2021 Mike...Smart use of joints and angles, the pitman arm is low while the gear tucks nicely at the frame. I like the through-hole and sleeve in the crossmember for the steering shaft. 3" square tubing looks suitable for replacing the OEM crossmember, plus you added the forward frame horn cross-brace—also smart. The steering shaft support bearing is essential with the extra joint. With manual steering there is more force on the steering shaft. Your short tie-rod (drag link) looks close to the tie-rod, which is optimal for reducing bump steer. Make sure the drag link and long tie-rod do not interfere with each other over the full cycling of the suspension and turning. Also, during wheel and linkage alignment, be sure to have the steering gear at its over-center position when the front wheels point straight ahead. Each tie-rod tapered ball stud should be centered in its joint before tightening clamps. If you have the right steering column position and angle, you nailed it! The floorboard support plate looks good, smack between the pedals. How does this look from the driver's seat? If you're happy, I'm thrilled. Wise to use the Advance Adapters kit as a starting point. As you say, there are plenty of parts in the kit. Great upgrade...Thanks for sharing! Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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