1956 Willys CJ3B Rebuild and Restoration

[Mike House]

It has taken me nearly 35 years from the moment I fell in love with the willys jeep to finally buy a project Willys and build one for myself!

 Recently while browsing craigslist I found an add for a 1950s cj3b for $1,500. The pics made it look like a minor rebuild project but of course the guy I got it from did not know much of the history of the jeep. He told me it was half 3b and half M38.....

I bought the jeep and trailered it home. 

After several weeks of soaking the cylinders I was still unable to get the F head 4 cylinder freed up. For the next few weeks I did research on an engine upgrade and settled on a late 90's GM v6 with TBI. While trying to find the right deal on an engine I stumbled across a guy selling jeep parts and turned out he had a Dauntless V6 still sitting in a 1967 CJ5. I bought the engine, flywheel and bellhousing for $400. This engine was also seized up as it had been sitting in a field for several years. 

I got the engine home and tore it down to the block. The cylinder walls were scored and worn but the block, crank and heads seemed salvable so the block, crank and head went to the machine shop. 

The body is in very rough shape. If I had the tools and shop space I would probably rebuild/repair the body. Still undecided on the path forward with the body. Other than I pulled it off and striped the frame down. 

Pulled the T90 and Dana 18 apart and found the transfer case to be in good shape but the transmission was a basket case. 

I have since rebuilt the transmission and bolted it back up to the transfer case awaiting the motor from the machine shop.

I plan to couple the Dauntless V6 to the T90. This will not be a hwy vehicle or a performance vehicle so for now I will stick with this drive train. 

I found the frame broken just behind left front spring shackle so I repaired the break and fish plated the outside of the frame. 

And that is where I am at to this point. 

[Mike House]

I chose this forum to document my project for a few reasons.

1. Mr. Moses Ludel seems to respond to the posts with a wealth of knowledge and great resources. I bought the Jeep cj Rebuilder's Manual as my second investment after buying the jeep! 

2. I am not restoring a jeep to its original form. It will be a hybrid of original equipment and new equipment. 

3. All of the people using this forum seem to have a genuine love for these jeeps and seem very helpful.

Thanks,

Mike 

[Mike House]

I bought this little gem on April 3, 2020. Turns out based the SN I found on the frame it is a 1956. 

[Mike House]

I pulled the tub to have a look at the frame and make repairs.

I found the frame was broken and had a pretty nasty repair job done at some point. the frame was repaired and a big bumper welded on with the frame toed in towards the passenger side about 1.5 inches. 

I cut it all out and repaired it. 

[Mike House]

I found the frame was broken and had a pretty nasty repair job done at some point. the frame was repaired and a big bumper welded on with the frame toed in towards the passenger side about 1.5 inches. 

I cut it all out and repaired it. 

[Mike House]

I found the frame was broken and had a pretty nasty repair job done at some point. the frame was repaired and a big bumper welded on with the frame toed in towards the passenger side about 1.5 inches. 

I cut it all out and repaired it. 

[Mike House]

Not the best but it will do! 

[Mike House]

I got the rest of the frame all cleaned up and painted! Not sure what to do with the suspension. I am thinking a 2.5" lift. 

[Mike House]

The transmission was all intact but it needed rebuilt. I took it apart and found it to be a T90c based on the tooth count on the input shaft. I am pretty sure that the c model was introduced in the 60s and not the original for a 1956

[Mike House]

[Moses Ludel]

You're well underway, Mike...The frame repair is more functional and a cosmetic improvement.  The T-90 looks fresh with the new cluster gear.  Fortunately, parts are still readily available for this transmission and transfer case.  

You'll be happy with the 225 V-6, plenty of power for your needs and the wheelbase/track width!  For me, a 2.5" lift would be the maximum, the CJ-3B's center-of-gravity is high with the narrow track width plus an 80-inch wheelbase.  If you do go up, make sure the aftermarket wheel rims are negative offset to widen the track width.  This can help restore the center-of-gravity, which is a handful even at stock height.  Since you're not installing wider axle assemblies, the only other remedy is negative offset wheels.

Moses

[Mike House]

51 minutes ago, Moses Ludel said:

 Thank you for the feedback Moses. I have no need to go any more than 2.5" on a lift. The foot print of this jeep and 31" tires will get me where I want to go! 

I will be picking up my engine from the machine shop next week and start the build up. It has been a long time since I have built an engine. I look forward to bringing this one back to life!

Mike 

 

[Mike House]

When I removed the water pump and timing cover I broke 3 of the small bolts holding the water pump on. Last night I removed the broken bolts and attempted to tap out the holes. When chasing the threads one of the holes that did not have a broken bolt removed I pushed the tap all the way through the thin metal at the bottom of the hole and all the way into the cavity behind the water pump. Soooooo it looks like I will purchase a replacement timing cover. It's better to know now than install the timing cover and find out later when I put water into the oil of my new engine! 

It looks like I can get a timing cover from about $90 to $150 depending on the brand. I have read a few reviews that people had trouble getting the distributor to fit properly on the new cover. I will purchase the new cover and check the fit before I put it on the engine. If it's not right I will return it. 

Mike 

[Mike House]

[snoopy2x]

Hi Mike,

Just to consider as you're looking for a replacement timing cover....you may have read that the OEM-designed oil pumps for the 225, which are integral to the timing cover, were not particularly well reputed and tended to wear out over time.  Though at $450 it's not cheap, TA Performance makes one for the 225 which includes a high-volume, adjustable-pressure oil pump that's designed to reduce the load on the camshaft:  http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_1533

In addition, particularly since you're removing the old timing cover anyway, you might think about replacing the original type timing chain and gears with a double-roller set (like a Cloyes Model 9-1132 Street True Set).  Besides being yet another way to spend even more of your money on your Jeep, it provides a smoother and quieter timing chain setup.    

I have both of the above on my Dauntless and have been very pleased with them. 

Maury

[Mike House]

That’s great feedback! I appreciate the guidance. I will have a look at those parts. 
 

Thanks,,

Mike

[Moses Ludel]

Mike, snoopy2x is right on about the demand for adequate oil volume (i.e., pressure as well).  There is a less expensive, fully functional alternative to the more expensive TA Performance pump:  The Melling "High Volume" Pump Kit for Buick V-6 and V-8 engines:  Melling Part Number K-20IPV (that's an upper case "I" letter, not a "1").  This kit uses a spacer plate that raises the oil pump end plate height to provide room for two longer oil pump gears, springs and small parts. 

This is the pump kit I used for my 231 V-6 build for the 1955 Jeep CJ-5.  (I did the same approach on our 1987 AMC/Jeep Grand Wagoneer's 360 V-8 with a Melling High Volume Pump Kit for AMC V-8s.)  The solution is ingenious;  simply extending the oil pump cavity height and providing longer gears will increase the volume of oil between the pump rotors.  Pressure can be adjusted to your needs with the choice of springs provided in the kit.

The cautionary part of this pump installation is the centering pins for the spacer plate.  The plate must index precisely on the timing cover/pump housing.  These two pin holes must be drilled correctly, which is not an insurmountable task but one that requires patience and proper alignment.  Failure to align the spacer with the timing cover gear bores will result in gear drag.

As for your timing cover issue, if there is oil pump bore wear (common for Buick and AMC engines with this kind of oil pump configuration), you might as well get a new timing cover.  Regarding the original cover, if it is a necessity or practical to repair it, I would use the Time-Sert repair method.  The thread drilling and tapping kit and stainless inserts are not cheap, but the precision tools can be reused many times. 

I never use Heli-Coil repairs on this type of project.  Here is the Time-Sert method performed on one of my critical aluminum thread projects where I saved the cost of a new motorcycle outer case:  https://www.4wdmechanix.com/how-to-time-sert-aluminum-thread-repair-and-upgrade/.  Your timing cover is similar.

If you use a Time-Sert repair, you could set the insert with a quality two-part epoxy then even epoxy a graded stud rather than bolt into the case.  The water pump gasket would actually seal around either a bolt or stud, so setting the insert with epoxy would be enough, allowing use of a removable OEM type bolt to secure the water pump. 

This comes down to whether the oil pump cavity is in good condition and the cost of a new timing cover.  Despite the hole punched through the blind hole casting of the cover, the water pump should not seep coolant if the pump gasket is a Felpro type with impregnated sealant and you use pipe/thread sealing Teflon paste (high temp automotive type) on the water pump fastener threads. 

As for snoopy2x's suggestion about a Cloyes doubler-roller timing set, that's my approach as well.  Good suggestion and safeguard that will last for the engine's normal lifespan.

Moses 

[Mike House]

You have both provided me with a wealth of info and options. I believe I will do a new timing cover. As for the pump options I will spend a little more time investigating the options. I have a little time to make the decision as I am not rushed to complete the engine build. I am eager to get started building it but don’t want to rush into a hasty decision just for the sake of moving forward. 
thanks again

Mike

[Mike House]

[Moses Ludel]

Understood, Mike, by all means take your time and do your homework.  This engine does need an oil pump from these photos, which is normal and on par for the age and wear.  A Melling high volume upgrade pump would be a cost effective solution.  The Melling parts will work with a stock or new aftermarket timing cover...Research it.

Moses

[Mike House]

Thanks for the advice. I did find the Melling high volume pump upgrade for about 100 bucks. I think I will go that route and with a new time no cover. The shop doing the machine work on my engine said he may have a timing cover in good shape. He used to do a lot of work on these Buick engines.

 

[Mike House]

Some parts arrived today so I changed gears from engine to front axle. 
Both hubs had play in the wheel bearings. When I took it apart I found that they were not set with a reasonable amount of preload or they backed off over time. 
to my surprise I found some good parts behind the drums! That was a plus. 
the bell crank was very sloppy, tie rod ends worn out and the passenger side had been welded. I rebuilt the bell rank with new parts and assembled the tie rods. New tie rods and new ends. I didn’t assemble it on the Jeep yet. Still trying to decide if I should open up the closed knuckle and inspect everything. It seems good and tight and the steering knuckle is smooth on the king pin bearings...... probably should open it up. 
side note two different style drums on the front axle. One inboard and one outboard. I believe the 3b came with outboard drums. 

[Mike House]

[Moses Ludel]

Hi, Mike...Looks like the LF wheel studs snapped off.  This happens likety-split (especially with air tools) when unsuspecting folks do not realize that the left side wheels and hubs on vintage Jeep, Studebaker, Ford and Chrysler vehicles are left hand thread.  Fortunately, Willys/Jeep did not use swaged wheel studs and drums.  Swaged studs require special tools (Goodson Tool Company) to replace properly.  If the hub holes are not wallowed, Willys studs can be replaced readily with an arbor or bottle jack press.

As for the brake drums, the previous owner talked about a mix of M38 and CJ3B parts.  Is that an issue here?

The wheel bearings require end play and not preload like axle differential bearings.  Specifications for adjusting the M38 or CJ-3B wheel bearings can be found in the FSM for your Jeep.  An excellent book that covers CJ-3B through early CJ-5/6 Dauntless V-6 applications is the reproduction/reprint of the 1965 factory shop manual.  Here is one (new book) source:

https://www.themotorbookstore.com/jeep-service-manual-sm-1046.html

I teethed on these manuals and have this book plus a shelf full of vintage Jeep factory parts and service manuals.  To this day, I consult these books regularly, they have each paid for themselves many times over. 

Adjusted properly with the outer lock nut torqued, a front wheel/tire (lifted safely off the ground) held at the 6/12 o'clock position should have a specific feel when adjusted properly.  After a fresh bearing pack and new seal:  "...shake of the wheel will be just perceptible and wheel will turn freely with no drag".  The adjustment steps are outlined in the manual (page 337) available at the link above...Later model vehicles use a true end play method, attaching a dial indicator to measure the precise thousandths of an inch end play while pushing and pulling the wheel hub inward and out.

Looks like you needed the bell crank kit!...You're moving along.  I see that you're using the OEM pin nut.  With the new washer in place, it appears that the nut is not turned onto the threads far enough for the pinch top to do its self-locking job.  Did the kit provide a self-locking nut with a thinner profile?

Moses

 

[Mike House]

Moses,

I sure appreciate your feedback and input on this forum! I did not realize that the left side had left hand threads and I broke them all off. Live and learn. I understand the need for left hand threads on semi trucks and the like but is it necessary on these jeeps?  I just went back out to the garage and looked at that locking nut. When I installed it I didn't think that there was enough thread sticking through the nut and something didn't seem right. What I found was that I left the old flat washer on the mount and put the new washer on top of it. I removed the old washer and tightened it down correctly. Looks much better now. 

As I dig deeper and deeper into this jeep I have found a lot of parts and pieces that look like they were put back together in a rush almost like the jeep was disassembled and put back together just to make it appear whole. 

[Moses Ludel]

Mike...I worked at gas stations in the sixties when many of the left hand thread wheel studs were still in service.  We were cautioned to loosen carefully and look for an "L" (often on the head of the studs) at the left side of the vehicle.  I also owned four vintage Ford (pre-1948) vehicles in my early teens before joining the '55-'57 Chevy crowd.  If thread type was overlooked, snapping older studs could easily occur with a hand cross wrench.  I could see the fresh breaks at the broken studs.  Yep, live and learn. 

When replacing the studs, fortunately, Jeep aftermarket sources are the last to offer left hand threaded wheel bolts for the left side of the vehicle;  you can find them from Omix-ADA, Crown, Quadratrac, Dorman, etc.  If you're curious, here's what a pain it would be to replace studs on vehicles as new as early sixties Chrysler cars.  Goodson makes this cutter primarily for the larger numbers of early Ford vehicles that use swaged studs to cinch the brake drums to the wheel hubs.  Your studs are not swaged; they do not crimp the drum to the wheel hub:

 https://goodson.com/products/swedge-tools

Here's an excellent article and set of photos on an early Ford wheel bolt installation, quite a job, be glad you will be spared this cost and time:

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/swaging.htm 

I thought the washer stack looked high on the bellcrank pin.  Glad you had an easy fix there.  Is there a reason for the double-nut on the pinch bolt?  Can you replace these two nuts with a single Grade 8 toplock (all metal "deformed" crown) nut?  Fastenal and Hillman produce these nuts, a hardware or fastener supply should have them in stock. 

Pleased to share these tidbits and glad you were not offended by my observation about the wheel studs.  I tried to be tactful...

Moses

[Mike House]

Thanks Moses,

That looks like a painstaking process. Thanks for sharing the articles. When I was 16 I went to work for a small logging company on WA states Olympic Peninsula where I grew up. The owner pinched every penny and I had the opportunity to work on some very old and very unusual equipment. I did all of the tire work on the log trucks and dump trucks in the beginning and so of course left hand threads were normal for these heavy trucks. I worked for this logging company in the shop for 3 years before graduating high school and joining the Navy. So in a short 6 months I went from working on worn out old logging equipment in an old shop and in the mud and muck to maintaining multimillion dollar jet aircraft! What I have found through the years is that no matter if its a 50 year old 4wd or a brand new jet aircraft the mechanical theories and principles are the same. 

I have spent most of my career as a mechanic and millwright. Now I manage a sawmill in GA for one of the largest sawmill companies in the world. https://interfor.com/

We are in the middle of upgrading a 1973 southern yellow pine sawmill to a state of the art sawmill. In all the investment will be around $100 million. We will finish phase one in the next few weeks. Most of the folks in my maintenance department have been working on the old iron in a reactive mode. Getting them switched to proactive maintenance may prove to be a challenge. Even though it is all new it still requires maintenance every  day.  

Any how. The double nut. Yes I will get a lock nut to replace the double nut. It seemed odd that the kit came with a nut and flat washer and no lock nut or lock washer. I spun it on there because it seemed odd that there was not lock nut.  

[Moses Ludel]

Mike...Ah, more things in common!  Though northern Nevada has been home the majority of my life, we spent five years at the Eugene-Springfield-Oakridge Area while I attended U of O.  We returned later for a four-year stint, and I completed the Jeep Owner's Bible, Ford F-Series Pickup Owner's Bible and the Chevrolet & GMC Light Truck Owner's Bible (Bentley Publishers) at Oakridge.  I continued writing columns and tech features regularly for magazines plus a weekly column for the Portland Oregonian.

A close friend (Kirk Rogers) from Oakridge retired recently from a career that began during his high school senior year at Pope & Talbot (Oakridge).  He went "off the hill" to Georgia Pacific (Springfield), then finished as a millright and superintendent for Cascade Pacific Pulp at Halsey.  They did a $15M renovation just prior to his retirement.  Great background in each of your cases.

What the three of us share in common is preventive maintenance.  My earliest years as a professional wrench were spent as a light- and medium-duty truck fleet mechanic working at the engineering department of a large general hospital.  We had resources, my supervisor was quality oriented, and I was able to do by-the-book work, which suited me well.  Stakes were high, and my goal was zero breakdowns with a fleet of 22 service vehicles.  Preventive maintenance is the only way to achieve these goals, work must be done properly...I've been at this professionally for 52 years, and to this day, knock on wood, at the personal level we have never been stranded alongside a road or in need of road service.  I can see that your work environment is high stakes, too, a hugely responsible job and career!

So, let's be academic and textbook with this CJ-3B.  A single nut is sufficient on the bellcrank pinch bolt.  The pin is clamped with the split casting, which provides some degree of tension.  A self-locking, all steel nut will suffice.  I'm not a fan of nyloc nuts, perhaps you have a different opinion from your jet aircraft background.  Nylon fasteners deteriorate from atmospheric stresses, high heat, load stresses and chemical reactions. 

I'm okay with the older Willys slotted tension nuts like your bellcrank pin uses, though this nut design is now a specialty and more difficult to source.  In modern hardware, I like the high-grade, deformed head (toplock) nuts;  they hold torque settings well and remain resistant to loosening through their service life.  You work with high-end machinery and vibration. What are your thoughts?

Moses

 

 

[Mike House]

Thanks Moses,

That looks like a painstaking process. Thanks for sharing the articles. When I was 16 I went to work for a small logging company on WA states Olympic Peninsula where I grew up. The owner pinched every penny and I had the opportunity to work on some very old and very unusual equipment. I did all of the tire work on the log trucks and dump trucks in the beginning and so of course left hand threads were normal for these heavy trucks. I worked for this logging company in the shop for 3 years before graduating high school and joining the Navy. So in a short 6 months I went from working on worn out old logging equipment in an old shop and in the mud and muck to maintaining multimillion dollar jet aircraft! What I have found through the years is that no matter if its a 50 year old 4wd or a brand new jet aircraft the mechanical theories and principles are the same. 

I have spent most of my career as a mechanic and millwright. Now I manage a sawmill in GA for one of the largest sawmill companies in the world. https://interfor.com/

We are in the middle of upgrading a 1973 southern yellow pine sawmill to a state of the art sawmill. In all the investment will be around $100 million. Most of the folks in my maintenance department have been working on the old iron in a reactive mode. Getting them switched to proactive maintenance may prove to be a challenge. Even though it is all new it still requires maintenance every  day.  

Any how. The double nut. Yes I will get a lock nut to replace the double nut. It seemed odd that the kit came with a nut and flat washer and no lock nut or lock washer. I spun it on there because it seemed odd that there was not lock nut.  

[Mike House]

12 hours ago, Moses Ludel said:

Mike...Ah, more things in common!  Though northern Nevada has been home the majority of my life, we spent five years at the Eugene-Springfield-Oakridge Area while I attended U of O.  We returned later for a four-year stint, and I completed the Jeep Owner's Bible, Ford F-Series Pickup Owner's Bible and the Chevrolet & GMC Light Truck Owner's Bible (Bentley Publishers) at Oakridge.  I continued writing columns and tech features regularly for magazines plus a weekly column for the Portland Oregonian.

A close friend (Kirk Rogers) from Oakridge retired recently from a career that began during his high school senior year at Pope & Talbot (Oakridge).  He went "off the hill" to Georgia Pacific (Springfield), then finished as a millright and superintendent for Cascade Pacific Pulp at Halsey.  They did a $15M renovation just prior to his retirement.  Great background in each of your cases.

What the three of us share in common is preventive maintenance.  My earliest years as a professional wrench were spent as a light- and medium-duty truck fleet mechanic working at the engineering department of a large general hospital.  We had resources, my supervisor was quality oriented, and I was able to do by-the-book work, which suited me well.  Stakes were high, and my goal was zero breakdowns with a fleet of 22 service vehicles.  Preventive maintenance is the only way to achieve these goals, work must be done properly...I've been at this professionally for 52 years, and to this day, knock on wood, at the personal level we have never been stranded alongside a road or in need of road service.  I can see that your work environment is high stakes, too, a hugely responsible job and career!

So, let's be academic and textbook with this CJ-3B.  A single nut is sufficient on the bellcrank pinch bolt.  The pin is clamped with the split casting, which provides some degree of tension.  A self-locking, all steel nut will suffice.  I'm not a fan of nyloc nuts, perhaps you have a different opinion from your jet aircraft background.  Nylon fasteners deteriorate from atmospheric stresses, high heat, load stresses and chemical reactions. 

I'm okay with the older Willys slotted tension nuts like your bellcrank pin uses, though this nut design is now a specialty and more difficult to source.  In modern hardware, I like the high-grade, deformed head (toplock) nuts;  they hold torque settings well and remain resistant to loosening through their service life.  You work with high-end machinery and vibration. What are your thoughts?

Moses

 

 

Moses it is a small world after all. I do love and miss the Pacific Northwest but middle Georgia is where my career has taken me for the time being. I have a sister in Eugene and a brother in Florence OR out on the coast.

You have had an amazing career and sounds like there is more in store for you with the video projects. It is a great sense of accomplishment to know that the equipment you maintain is out there rolling up and down the road every day.  I worked with some folks back in WA that had worked for Pope in OR many years back. I have been in the sawmills now for 20 years. the first 5 in maintenance and the last 15 in management. The industry has changed significantly in 20 years. I often talk to my crews about how sawing lumber hasn't changed in hundreds of years. Trees are still fat at the bottom and skinny at the top and we are sawing them into square edged dimensions! What has changed is the technology and expectation to get more lumber from every log. Our industry like many others has found it extremely difficult to source and hire for the skilled trades. Mechanics, millwrights, electricians and welders. Young people lost interest some time ago and our industries are suffering as a result. Interfor has developed an apprenticeship program that is recognized by the Department of Labor and is administered and certified through the Northern Alberta Institute of Technology or NAIT. I represent Interfor's South region as a member of the "steering committee" for this program.  Our apprentices spend three years learning the trade through hands on training, classroom work. At the end of the program the apprentices that complete the program successfully earn a journeyman millwright card recognized by the DOL. The program is completely free to the students and they have not obligation to stay with Interfor when they complete the program. It is our hope that if we treat them right they will choose to stay with us. It is a great program yet I am still surprised at the lack of interest from our crews. The program is open to all employees not only maintenance crews. We normally start off with a lot of interest but when they find out that they will have to work hard for this privilege most lose interest. Still we consider the program to be a success. We have graduated our first class this year with roughly 75% of the original students completing the program.

Lock nuts.... In my experience the nylock nuts are best used in applications where they will be removed for maintenance in 6-12 months. As you stated they do not hold up to heat and vibrations well. They also tend to be taller than a top lock nut so if space is a constraint they may be an issue.  We did use them on jet aircraft in the Navy but not on any of the powerplant or structural stuff. They were often used with clamps on electrical harnesses under the skin of the fuselage. 

In the sawmill we will use them in low impact applications and areas that our maintenance guys can do their dynamic PMs while the equipment is running and they can see it. This flange bearing is a good example. Here is something interesting. That flange bearing is one of 8 on a set of planer outfeed belts. We purchased them from a vendor as complete units ready to drop in and hook up as part of the project. Of the 8 bearings only one bearing had the locking collar tab locked in place on the nut. The others did not have any of the tabs locked into the nut. It is those small details that will keep your equipment running at maximum up time. 

[Mike House]

Some parts arrived today so I changed gears from engine to front axle. 
Both hubs had play in the wheel bearings. When I took it apart I found that they were not set with a reasonable amount of preload or they backed off over time. 
to my surprise I found some good parts behind the drums! That was a plus. 
the bell crank was very sloppy, tie rod ends worn out and the passenger side had been welded. I rebuilt the bell rank with new parts and assembled the tie rods. New tie rods and new ends. I didn’t assemble it on the Jeep yet. Still trying to decide if I should open up the closed knuckle and inspect everything. It seems good and tight and the steering knuckle is smooth on the king pin bearings...... probably should open it up. 
side note two different style drums on the front axle. One inboard and one outboard. I believe the 3b came with outboard drums. 

[Mike House]

Rear crossmember/bumper showed up today so I hung it loosely with a couple carriage bolts I had in the garage from building a utility trailer. 

[Moses Ludel]

1 hour ago, Mike House said:

Mike...See my comments below...

Moses it is a small world after all. I do love and miss the Pacific Northwest but middle Georgia is where my career has taken me for the time being. I have a sister in Eugene and a brother in Florence OR out on the coast.

While attending the U of O (graduated 1980) and living at married student housing, we would go to Florence on our shoestring family budget.  I learned to steelhead fish on Lake Creek and the Siuslaw River.  Wonderful part of the Oregon Coast.  When we lived at Oakridge (1990-94), our local 4x4 club volunteered for Lane County Sheriffs Search and Rescue, and we dispatched from the coast to the crest of the Willamette National Forest and Waldo Lake.

You have had an amazing career and sounds like there is more in store for you with the video projects. It is a great sense of accomplishment to know that the equipment you maintain is out there rolling up and down the road every day.  I worked with some folks back in WA that had worked for Pope in OR many years back. I have been in the sawmills now for 20 years. the first 5 in maintenance and the last 15 in management. The industry has changed significantly in 20 years. I often talk to my crews about how sawing lumber hasn't changed in hundreds of years. Trees are still fat at the bottom and skinny at the top and we are sawing them into square edged dimensions! What has changed is the technology and expectation to get more lumber from every log. Our industry like many others has found it extremely difficult to source and hire for the skilled trades. Mechanics, millwrights, electricians and welders. Young people lost interest some time ago and our industries are suffering as a result. Interfor has developed an apprenticeship program that is recognized by the Department of Labor and is administered and certified through the Northern Alberta Institute of Technology or NAIT. I represent Interfor's South region as a member of the "steering committee" for this program.  Our apprentices spend three years learning the trade through hands on training, classroom work. At the end of the program the apprentices that complete the program successfully earn a journeyman millwright card recognized by the DOL. The program is completely free to the students and they have not obligation to stay with Interfor when they complete the program. It is our hope that if we treat them right they will choose to stay with us. It is a great program yet I am still surprised at the lack of interest from our crews. The program is open to all employees not only maintenance crews. We normally start off with a lot of interest but when they find out that they will have to work hard for this privilege most lose interest. Still we consider the program to be a success. We have graduated our first class this year with roughly 75% of the original students completing the program.

Your training program is really exciting, especially the DOL certification and high rate of completion!  When I graduated from U of O, we moved to San Diego County.  I taught automotive and welding for a stint at the San Diego Job Corps and got the bug to work with young adults.  Years later, after a successful career at journalism, authoring best-selling books, consulting to OEM vehicle manufacturers and all that, a local friend at Yerington, Nevada asked if I would substitute teach for a few days at the Rite of Passage program.  I instructed Automotive/Diesel Technology and Welding and wound up accepting a contract (1999-2004) for a five-year hiatus from writing.  Within a year, I was site supervisor of education and director of vocational training over four Rite of Passage facilities.  Our Silver State Academy on Native American property was chartered under El Dorado County (California) Office of Education.  Students were economically disadvantaged and mostly court adjudicated/incarcerated (typically tough, often gang affiliated young men from California, Colorado, Utah, Nevada, Indiana, Arizona and Oregon).  They needed high school, and we had an average of 14 months to bootstrap a student to a diploma and vocational training.  I oversaw vocational training and developed trade curriculum.  My role included a chair on the Tech Prep board at Western Nevada College, working with Carl Perkins Grants and administering our sites' VICA participation.  At welding, we got I-CAR and basic AWS certification for many students and turned out proficient TIG weldors able to graduate and advance to OJT at a Carson City aircraft turbine rebuilding facility.  There were many success stories...The singularly most challenging and rewarding work stint of my adult life was the five years with Rite of Passage! 

Lock nuts.... In my experience the nylock nuts are best used in applications where they will be removed for maintenance in 6-12 months. As you stated they do not hold up to heat and vibrations well. They also tend to be taller than a top lock nut so if space is a constraint they may be an issue.  We did use them on jet aircraft in the Navy but not on any of the powerplant or structural stuff. They were often used with clamps on electrical harnesses under the skin of the fuselage.

My thought, too.  Periodic replacement makes sense.  I was curious because the postwar era use of Nylock "aircraft nuts" was universal and popularized, touted as the end all.  I prefer anodized toplock, all-steel fasteners, Grade 5 or 8 per requirements. 

In the sawmill we will use them in low impact applications and areas that our maintenance guys can do their dynamic PMs while the equipment is running and they can see it. This flange bearing is a good example. Here is something interesting. That flange bearing is one of 8 on a set of planer outfeed belts. We purchased them from a vendor as complete units ready to drop in and hook up as part of the project. Of the 8 bearings only one bearing had the locking collar tab locked in place on the nut. The others did not have any of the tabs locked into the nut. It is those small details that will keep your equipment running at maximum up time. 

Agreed!  Preventive measures make the difference...a winning strategy!

Moses

 

[Moses Ludel]

Mike, aren't the Jeep vintage vehicles great for repro parts!  The rear bumper will work well, amazing that the market is still supported at this level.

As for the unused lock tab on the bearing, that's on par.  Our neighbor up the block has a JK Wrangler Unlimited built to the nines for the Rubicon Trail and hardcore wheeling.  He has aftermarket Dana 60 front and rear axles that cost a small fortune.  The manufacturer (name withheld to prevent a pissing match), went off on its own tangent with the full-floating front hub bearing arrangement.  The design, two nuts without a key way-indexed thrust washer placed between the inner nut and the outer wheel bearing, guaranteed that the nuts would work loose at some point.  They did. 

At the left side of the vehicle, the right hand thread nuts and thin tin lock plate came loose.  There was no stack height on the stubby aftermarket spindles to install thrust washers.

I am a stickler for OEM engineering as a baseline.  There is a Ford OEM application prototype (F450 live full-floating front axle) that offers the correct thrust washer, nuts and lock tab sequencing.  Unfortunately, the aftermarket manufacturer decided that off-roaders would like a stubby spindle with no stick-out like a stock Ford spindle and hub;  this meant no room for an OEM type key way indexed thrust washer, an inner adjuster nut, a lock plate and an outer lock nut.  Two nuts jammed against each other with no inner thrust washer does not work when the weight of a vehicle pushes the hub bearings outward, directly against the inner nut.  The left side nuts (right hand thread) and flimsy lock plate came loose.

Many companies are more concerned about product liability insurance than proper engineering.  The owner shared the issue with the manufacturer, this was clearly a safety issue, and the concern fell on deaf ears.  If I wanted Dana 60 axles under a Jeep, my first stop would be a recycling yard for Ford F350/F450 prototype beam axles.  Cut and relocate the spring perches.  Save $5000 per axle.

Moses

[Mike House]

On 6/22/2020 at 8:30 AM, Moses Ludel said:

 

Ahhhh chasing the elusive steelhead! One of the rivers I grew up on had a very strong winter run of 100% native steelhead. When I was younger you could fish it for these natives but now it is closed for steelhead. The rivers out on the peninsula still generate very strong steelhead runs although most of them are hatchery fish now. 

You have been a very busy guy and sounds like in addition to your career you have given back to the community in a significant way. I was born in Oceanside CA which is in Orange county and than we moved to WA state in 1975. 

Looking back on my career in maintenance two jobs stand out to me as my top one and two.

In the Navy along with being an aviation structural mechanic I was a flight deck troubleshooter. Normally the top guys from each of the discipline were chosen to be flight deck troubleshooters. As flight deck trouble shooters we were responsible for performing pre-flight inspections on the jets as they taxied up to the catapult to get launched. We walked along the side of the jet and were positioned just under and outboard of the wing. The catapult would get hooked up to the nose landing gear, the jet would go to "full military power" the pilot would cycle all of his flight controls as we checked for issues, once we gave a thumbs up the steam piston went to full power and the catapult would drag the jet off of the deck. This process was repeated over and over for 12-16 hours a day depending on where we were operating. It was an adrenaline rush all day! 

The other would be the time I spent working in Alaska as a field mechanic for a logging company on the remote island of Afognak. I loved the work and loved the environment even more! I would leave the camp every morning about 6am and drive my shop truck to one of the logging sites. I would have a project to work on all day and support logging crews and their equipment if they had any issues come up. I would service the equipment at the end of the day and head back towards camp. With very long days in the summer I would usually stop and fish on my way home. When the silver salmon were running it would not be unusual to stop at a creek on the way to camp and pull a half dozen fish for the freezer or smoker!  I love it in Alaska! May be time to head back at least for a vacation!

 

I am not sure if I will ever build something that would call for a Dana 60 but... if I did I will note your comments above. 

As I work on this willys and source parts I am very pleased to find the availability and price point on these parts! It definitely makes the process more fun keeps the project moving along! 

 

 

[Moses Ludel]

Mike...We need to talk over coffee at some point...Much more to our bios, many similar experiences to share!

Moses

[Mike House]

32 minutes ago, Moses Ludel said:

Mike...We need to talk over coffee at some point...Much more to our bios, many similar experiences to share!

Moses

Agreed! We will have to get that one figured out! 

[Mike House]

Some parts arrived today so I changed gears from engine to front axle. 
Both hubs had play in the wheel bearings. When I took it apart I found that they were not set with a reasonable amount of preload or they backed off over time. 
to my surprise I found some good parts behind the drums! That was a plus. 
the bell crank was very sloppy, tie rod ends worn out and the passenger side had been welded. I rebuilt the bell rank with new parts and assembled the tie rods. New tie rods and new ends. I didn’t assemble it on the Jeep yet. Still trying to decide if I should open up the closed knuckle and inspect everything. It seems good and tight and the steering knuckle is smooth on the king pin bearings...... probably should open it up. 
side note two different style drums on the front axle. One inboard and one outboard. I believe the 3b came with outboard drums. 

[Mike House]

I may have jumped the gun on the hubs and drums here. After researching what should be on the 3b, measuring the two hubs comparing them I decided to order a new drum and drill tap holes in the one hub to facilitate the drum? 
many thoughts?

 

thanks,

Mike

[Mike House]

I also pulled the locking hubs apart, cleaned inspected and lubed them before reassembling them. All pieces looked to be in good shape and the hubs now turn freely in and out. 

[Mike House]

On 6/17/2020 at 10:07 AM, Mike House said:

While performing a root cause analysis on the broken bolts in my timing cover I believe I have discovered the root cause! Hahahahaha. My daughter Capri may have been responsible! 

[Moses Ludel]

You've got a great helper, Mike...The new timing cover is a small price to pay!

[Mike House]

For sure! That girl rarely leaves my side if I’m not at work. Hunting, fishing, yard work and working in the shop! She’s my partner in crime! 

[Moses Ludel]

Understood...I have a daughter and her daughter, my granddaughter, who carry on the tradition!  Great values to instill, especially a work ethic and appreciation for the outdoors and self-sufficiency...The best gift for a daughter—or son!  Our three boys know this lifestyle, too. 

[53HiHood]

Mike, I’m excited to see another 3B project on here. I need to get back to working on my 3B this fall or winter after I insulate my new shop. 

[Mike House]

Thanks!

Good work space definitely helps! It’s in the 90s here now and I am not spending as much time in the shop as I would like!

I have me engine block crank and pistons back from the machine shop and waiting for the heads. I have a few more parts to buy before I start the engine rebuild! 
plus an adapter and clutch to purchase! 
 

Mike

[Moses Ludel]

Mike...We've been hitting the high 90s/100, but this is the classic "dry climate", less intensive than your neighborhood...I did a lengthy video on manual tire changing, picked a nice 95-degree F day to demonstrate wrestling with 10-ply/LRE tires and big tire irons on a tiny changer.  Proved it could be done—for what that's worth.  Had to edit out the mature audience language from the video clips...Roasted my butt off, you can see the sweat dripping onto the wheels as I tug and pull irons.  Interesting segment is the fabrication/modification I made to the manual tire changer, made a 2"-square receiver adaption, turned the machine into a trail or moto pit portable tire service unit:  https://www.4wdmechanix.com/change-tires-at-your-shop-or-a-remote-site/.

Moses

[Mike House]

Hey Moses! Awesome video and a really cool tool you have there! I have spent my share of time wrestling tires! Fortunately it was when I was younger and less wise! Hahaha now I can look back and say I have paid my dues! Tires are a lot of work!

It looks like you lost some serious fluids making that video! That tool should be sold with a cooler of ice cold beverages! 
thanks for sharing!

 

Mike

[Moses Ludel]

Thanks, Mike...The remote tire changer idea worked...surprisingly stable, some incidental flex with the big tires, but the beam remains resistant to force.  Key was 0.250" wall on the 2-inch tube.  The remote use was the best "takeaway".  This machine is ideal for Honda Civic, Prius and motorcycle tires.  The adapter for moto wheels is high quality.

I'm looking forward to receiving a semi-automatic tire changer at the end of August.  There's a 20-30 minute video pending around that machine, a great sequel to the sweat and wrestling of a human-power tire changer and pair of Ken-Tool tire irons.  To be continued!

Moses

[Mike House]

That’s pretty cool! I look forward to seeing that video!

[Moses Ludel]

Update:  Tire changer coming from within the U.S. and will be here within a week...Expect some video clips thereafter...I'm excited and see this as a sensible investment despite the front end expenditure. 

Our youngest (eight years old) grandson sold his grandmother on the deal.  He did a count of our rolling stock tires on the property:  23 automotive/4x4 and trailer tires plus six dirt/dual sport motorcycle tires.  29 "perishable" tires will help amortize the in-house tire shop's start-up costs over time.

Of course, with his reasoning ability, Grandson Camden will be rewarded.  Money saved by DIY tire changing and balancing can go toward his college education.

Moses 

[Mike House]

Hahah that’s great! A young entrepreneur! Sounds like he is well on his way! Those tires are sure to keep him busy! 😃

[Mike House]

Ok, well it has been a busy fall and winter. I wish I could say I have been hard at work rebuilding the 3b. I haven't made any progress on the actual rebuild but I have been stock piling new parts. The block, crank, pistons, rods, cam etc are all back from the machine shop and still in the corner of the kitchen. I don't dare put hem outside in this Middle GA humidity. I would be right back to a rusty pile of mystery parts. I have purchased a new timing cover, water pump, distributor, some universal motor mounts and a handful of new tools that I did not have to complete the rebuild. I don't want to complete the rebuild until I am ready to set the engine in the frame and fire it up. I would rather do that and not rebuild it and let it set in the garage. I still need to purchase an adapter for the T-90 and a clutch. I plan to have the engine in and running by mid May. 

[Mike House]

Things that I have been doing instead of working on the 3b. My son came down in October from WA state where he and his family live. Together we spent a week filling up two freezers with white tail deer and wild hog meat!

I traded the 06 Ram in last fall so I opted for the Gladiator! I love this rig! I always wanted a Scrambler but it was never in the cards back in the day. When Jeep came out with the Gladiator I had my eye set on one right away! 

 

[Mike House]

I do have a question for anyone on the forum with some good info!

Q- So what would be the best option for cooling the Dauntless? I have the radiator that was in the 3b when it had the 4cyl in it. Not sure what kind of shape it is in. I was considering buying a radiator that came in the 1967 cj5 with the V6 to match the engine I am rebuilding. Again this jeep isn't going to be a performance rig or a parade rig. Just fun to cruise around in and maybe go to the woods hunting! 

Any feed back is great thanks!

[Moses Ludel]

Hi, Mike...Glad your busy and healthy, the hunt with your son sounds great.  Lots of meat!  Your new Gladiator has a nice profile.  Looks like a moderate lift?  What size tires?

Regarding the 3B radiator, you should not have a height issue with a Kaiser-era CJ-5/6 V-6 radiator and your 3B engine bay/front clip.  I would also consider one of the aftermarket radiators sold by dimensions.  Summit Racing and others have these radiators. 

eBay is full of vintage Jeep replacement radiators, many 3-row aluminum.  There appears to be extensive early Jeep model interchangeability.  Compare dimensions, though.  If you can use a CJ-5 V-6 radiator, some minor fabricating to adapt the side brackets should not be a challenge.

The contemporary, best core if you do a re-core of your flat fender 3B radiator would be "dimple tube" core.  A 3-row dimple tube with the correct GPM flow rating for the V-6 BTUs would do it.  Horsepower equals BTUs.  (A rule of thumb is 45 BTUs per horsepower, which doesn't mean much unless you increase the power output of the 225 Dauntless.)  I would rely on flow charts available to radiator shops and likely now online.  Determine the OEM flow rate and match or, optimally, exceed that flow rating. 

The rest is fan cooling and a shroud.  I'm a proponent of a mechanical, engine driven fan.  A stock 225 V-6 fan works, a flexible fan if you want less power drain and steady air flow at higher rpm.  A fan clutch makes sense if you want less noise.  I always install a shroud, sometimes requiring additional fabrication.  Position the fan and shroud properly.

Moses

[Mike House]

Thanks Moses,

There are many things I miss about living out west but of all of them spending time with my son and his family tops the list. 

The Gladiator is a 2020 model. I went as base as possible. I even have hand crank windows! I put a 3.5" lift on it and 37x12.5 tires. They fit and look good in my opinion. I may need to look at re-gearing the differentials. I did not lose much power for daily driving but when I tow my side by side on the trailer it is a dog. 

Thanks for the feedback on the cooling system. I believe adapting the Cj5 radiator should be pretty straight forward. 

Next is the fuel system. I have decided to stick with the Rochester 2GC. I have found several options on line. Looks like a guy could spend anywhere from $90 on Amazon to $4 $5 $6 hundred from others. One example is below. 

At first I had given up on the carb that I had. It was rusty and the throttle shaft was seized up. I let it sit with penetrating oil on it and worked it back and forth until it freed up.  I talked to a guy at a carb shop in Atlanta and my plan now is to send it to him and let him evaluate it and give me a quote. Either way it looks like lots of options. 

Thanks for the help!

Mike 

 

[Mike House]

Thank you!  I really like it!

[Moses Ludel]

Mike...You can calibrate the speedometer or change the axle gearing...I usually change the gearing with the 37"x12.5" tire size.  What is stock gearing for the Gladiator?

As for the 225 carburetor, I personally like the 2GC, very dependable, simple to rebuild.  The reprint Jeep FSM for the Dauntless 225 V-6 era CJs provides all the data on that 2GC if you need to confirm authenticity, right down to rod and jet sizes, bore size, etc.  If authentic and rebuildable, keep it.  We ran those carburetors for years without a hitch, very forgiving on the trail, not like a Holley.

Moses

[Mike House]

The stock ratio is 3.73. 
I defiantly want to stick with the 2Gc carb. 

[Mike House]

I’m getting excited to build this engine and get it in the 3b. 
Any feedback on using a set of inside and outside micrometers to measure the crank and rods for bearing clearances VS using plastigauge? I have never used the plastigauge and it seems like a bit of a pain doing the rods on the crank with the crank torqued into the block.....

[Moses Ludel]

Mike...I'd run 4.10 or 4.56 gears with the 37"x12.5" tires.  I have 4.56s in the Ram 3500 with 37"x12.5".  The Cummins engine is spinning a bit faster than I'd like at 70-up mph, fuel mileage suffers.  For a Pentastar 3.6L V-6 gasoline engine, however, the engine speed would be decent.  I'll likely change to 4.10s before this is through.  You might be happier with 4.56:1 considering the JT's weight and any plans to tow.

Check out an rpm calculator and consider your overdrive ratio.  Note the torque peak for your engine.  I like to see the diesel engine near torque peak at normal interstate cruise speeds (70 mph) in overdrive.  In your case, see what ratio would match up the engine rpm to the rpm with stock tires and 3.73 gears.

Your comment about mic versus Plastigage:  I use both.  The outside mic is reliable for the journal sizes and checking for any out-of-round.  The Plastigage confirms that the torque'd rod cap and big end are okay/round with the bearing "crushed" in place.  Plastigage is the only reliable test of oil clearance.  Nice backup.

Understand your desire to get the 3B running!  Keep us posted...

Moses  

[Mike House]

Thanks Moses,

I appreciate all of your insight. I will likely stick with the plastigauge to ensure I have proper clear eve with things torqued in place. 

[Mike House]

Back to work on the 3b today. I now have everything to build my engine. Today I checked oil clearances on the rods and mains. Plastigauge has me at just about .002” on all the rods and the mains. I was not looking forward to checking rod clearances after the crank was in the block. I strapped it down to the bench and it was not bad at all. 
It was a productive day. Crank is in. All pistons are in. Everything rotates as it should and end play on the crank is good. I checked the ring gap on one ring from each piston in their respective cylinder. 
I may set the heads on tomorrow. 

[Moses Ludel]

Very thorough and fun to see at this stage, Mike!  Your oil clearances look quite good.  Rods, pistons and bearings, too...You did make good progress...Must have been your helper!  The book, too...

Exciting to see a "big bore" V-6 with iron block and heads.  Engines are non-descript today.  The 225 Dauntless has character!

Are you using the Melling high volume oil pump conversion (spacer plate with longer gears)?  Regardless, be sure to pack the oil pump cavity with fresh petroleum jelly to create pressure and suction at first cranking. 

Prime the oil system as an additional safeguard.  (A priming tool and drill will work.  I use a Goodson Tool pressure tank ($$$$), but for a one-time or occasional build, a 1/2-inch drill motor (even a 3/8" drill though I like the torque and speed control with a 1/2" drill) with a priming tool from Summit Racing/Equipment, Jeg's or Amazon will suffice.  Petroleum jelly and the priming tool with fresh oil in the crankcase works fine.  You will pick up pressure quickly and avoid risk of a dry start.  Do not prime until after the long block, heads, lifters, pushrods, rocker shafts and rocker arms are in place and fully assembled!  Watch for oil at the rocker arms.

https://www.amazon.com/OEMTOOLS-27060-Oil-Pump-Primer/dp/B004FEPD72  [For "GM V-6" not sure whether this includes the 225 and 3.8L Buick or just a 4.3L Chevy V-6.  Be sure to get the correct priming tool for your 225.  Poking around online, I found several sources that say a small-block Chevy tool like this one will work.]

Thanks for sharing the photos...!

Moses

[Mike House]

Thanks Moses. 

I am happy that I went with this engine for the project. Looks like the machine shop did a good job with all of the machine work. I had not planned on using the high volume pump but now that I am so deep into the motor and have so much $ invested in it I believe I will. 

I think a guy I work with has a GM priming tool for a drill. If not  will pick one up for sure. It looks like I need to replace the disributor drive gear on the cam. It has one damaged tooth. I think I will also replace the piece that drives the fuel pump. it looks like it is a little flakey. 

I put the cam in today and the timing set. 

I ran into something that seemed not quit right on the head gaskets. I went ahead and put the heads on also I hope I didn't make a mistake with the gasket.

I had set the gasket on the block to check for fit and alignment and I notice that there is not much of a hole for two of the (what looks like to me) water journals. The hole in the block is about 5/8" but the hole in the gasket is only about 1/8". Is that ok? It just doesn't seem right.  

[Mike House]

[Mike House]

[Moses Ludel]

Yep, Mike, you need a distributor gear.  What did the cylinder head ports look like that align with the coolant ports in the block?  Are the head passageways smaller, more like the FelPro gasket's holes?  The gasket set fits a 225 and not a 3.8L/231, right?  Or does it fit both?

Did you take photos of the cylinder head faces?  Can you recall the head coolant port sizes?

The project is unfolding very well, Mike!

Moses

[Mike House]

You know of all the pictures I have been taking I did not take a picture of the face of the heads..... I don't recall what they looked like. I did go on line and look at gaskets sets for the 225 and every images I looked at the gaskets were configured with the small hole just like the ones in the pics that I installed. I will do a little more digging around about the head gasket. I am going to be waiting on parts now for a little bit so no big deal. I can't assemble the timing cover and water pump until I get the distributor gear. Perfect timing I suppose. It's back to work tomorrow.

Mike 

[Mike House]

How about that cam lob wear where the fuel pump actuator rides? I wonder how much wear I can have there? A new one at TA Performance is about $80 and I am going to be buying a distributor drive gear and oil slinger there also....

[Moses Ludel]

Practical question, Mike...This all depends upon the amount of fuel pump stroke.  If stroke is enough with the lobe in this condition, you will have adequate fuel pump volume.  Do a trial fit of the pump to see how much the plunger arm depresses as the pump moves into position.

Send a photo of the pump cam if you're concerned...We can estimate the wear involved here.

Moses 

[Moses Ludel]

Mike...You may be okay on the head gaskets but do confirm.  It is not uncommon for the head gaskets to be restrictors to distributor coolant in a specific way.  Verify that the gasket set is for a 225 of your engine's vintage.  Do you have the old head gaskets to compare?

[Mike House]

I didn’t keep the old ones unfortunately. I will do a little more research to be sure. 
now that I take a closer look at the cam lobe for the fuel pump I believe it should be replaced. 

[Moses Ludel]

It's got a rough wear surface through the polished, high pressure contact point.  I agree and would replace it, Mike.

[Mike House]

Nows the time to do it for sure. I would hate to have to go back into it later. 

[Moses Ludel]

Mike...Yes, $80 is a bit pricy!  Can you find an NOS (new old stock) Buick or Jeep 225 eccentric?  Check eBay.  Finding this kind of part as NOS is always about timing.  Look into the interchange of the part number.  There may be Buick V-8s that also use this eccentric cam, likely the 300 and 340, maybe other GM engines as well.  Start with a Buick 225 V-6 OEM part number.

Check Dorman or Pioneer as a possibility, the application is long in the tooth but may be available if there is broader use of the part.  AMC V-8s use a similar arrangement, though you would definitely need to confirm the fit.

Moses  

[Mike House]

That's great advice Moses. I will check it out. I did notice in the description of the distributor drive gear that this piece fits several engines both V8 and V6. 

[Mike House]

On 6/17/2020 at 4:26 PM, Moses Ludel said:

Mike, snoopy2x is right on about the demand for adequate oil volume (i.e., pressure as well).  There is a less expensive, fully functional alternative to the more expensive TA Performance pump:  The Melling "High Volume" Pump Kit for Buick V-6 and V-8 engines:  Melling Part Number K-20IPV (that's an upper case "I" letter, not a "1").  This kit uses a spacer plate that raises the oil pump end plate height to provide room for two longer oil pump gears, springs and small parts. 

This is the pump kit I used for my 231 V-6 build for the 1955 Jeep CJ-5.  (I did the same approach on our 1987 AMC/Jeep Grand Wagoneer's 360 V-8 with a Melling High Volume Pump Kit for AMC V-8s.)  The solution is ingenious;  simply extending the oil pump cavity height and providing longer gears will increase the volume of oil between the pump rotors.  Pressure can be adjusted to your needs with the choice of springs provided in the kit.

The cautionary part of this pump installation is the centering pins for the spacer plate.  The plate must index precisely on the timing cover/pump housing.  These two pin holes must be drilled correctly, which is not an insurmountable task but one that requires patience and proper alignment.  Failure to align the spacer with the timing cover gear bores will result in gear drag.

As for your timing cover issue, if there is oil pump bore wear (common for Buick and AMC engines with this kind of oil pump configuration), you might as well get a new timing cover.  Regarding the original cover, if it is a necessity or practical to repair it, I would use the Time-Sert repair method.  The thread drilling and tapping kit and stainless inserts are not cheap, but the precision tools can be reused many times. 

I never use Heli-Coil repairs on this type of project.  Here is the Time-Sert method performed on one of my critical aluminum thread projects where I saved the cost of a new motorcycle outer case:  https://www.4wdmechanix.com/how-to-time-sert-aluminum-thread-repair-and-upgrade/.  Your timing cover is similar.

If you use a Time-Sert repair, you could set the insert with a quality two-part epoxy then even epoxy a graded stud rather than bolt into the case.  The water pump gasket would actually seal around either a bolt or stud, so setting the insert with epoxy would be enough, allowing use of a removable OEM type bolt to secure the water pump. 

This comes down to whether the oil pump cavity is in good condition and the cost of a new timing cover.  Despite the hole punched through the blind hole casting of the cover, the water pump should not seep coolant if the pump gasket is a Felpro type with impregnated sealant and you use pipe/thread sealing Teflon paste (high temp automotive type) on the water pump fastener threads. 

As for snoopy2x's suggestion about a Cloyes doubler-roller timing set, that's my approach as well.  Good suggestion and safeguard that will last for the engine's normal lifespan.

Moses 

Moses, above you stated oil pressure can be adjusted using the springs based on your needs. Or something like that. My question is how do I know what my needs are???

I did purchase the Melling high volume pump kit for this rebuild. How do I determine what pressure spring I should use? Is more better? My oil clearances on the rods and main bearing are all right at .002”. 
I think 70lbs was the highest pressure spring available. 
any thoughts?

Thanks for all the help.

Mike

[Moses Ludel]

Mike, "normal" oil pressure for the Dauntless V-6 was 33 psi at 2,400 rpm.  70 psi is way too high and could even lead to spinning a bearing.  I would use the spring that delivers around 40-45 psi at the 2,400 rpm with the engine fully warmed.  If Melling indicates the pressure range for each spring, use that guideline.  At least step down from the 70 psi spring.  The goal with the Melling "high volume" pump is just that:  reasonable pressure with more available volume.

You're not running this engine with racing bearing clearances intended for straight 50 wt. oil.  You will likely be running a modern multi-vis oil, using ambient temperature as your guide:  10W-40 weight after break-in during warmer weather, maybe 5W-30 in cold start-up winters.  5W-30 would also be a good break-in viscosity if the engine seals well.

Moses

[Mike House]

9 hours ago, Moses Ludel said:

Mike, "normal" oil pressure for the Dauntless V-6 was 33 psi at 2,400 rpm.  70 psi is way too high and could even lead to spinning a bearing.  I would use the spring that delivers around 40-45 psi at the 2,400 rpm with the engine fully warmed.  If Melling indicates the pressure range for each spring, use that guideline.  At least step down from the 70 psi spring.  The goal with the Melling "high volume" pump is just that:  reasonable pressure with more available volume.

You're not running this engine with racing bearing clearances intended for straight 50 wt. oil.  You will likely be running a modern multi-vis oil, using ambient temperature as your guide:  10W-40 weight after break-in during warmer weather, maybe 5W-30 in cold start-up winters.  5W-30 would also be a good break-in viscosity if the engine seals well.

Moses

Ok got it. The instructions with the kit does indicate the pressure range for each of the springs. I will get the right one in there! We don't need any trouble with oil or bearings considering all the work that has gone into this engine. Getting a lot closer every day as more parts arrive! 

Thanks for the help.

Mike 

[Moses Ludel]

Mike, I updated the post with a reference to break-in zinc additive.  Use CompCams or Lucas zinc break-in lube as per directions on the product.  You need zinc additive to get the proper run-in pattern between the flat tappet lifter bases and camshaft lobes.  Contemporary oil does not contain zinc, which is not an issue with roller lifters.  Once the engine break-in period is past, you can continue using a quality multi-vis oil and should no longer need the zinc additive.

I use Chevron Supreme motor oil with IsoSyn formulation, it's cost effective and formulated to be low-volatility molecules like a synthetic oil.   I was buying this oil by the case from Costco as 5W-30 or 10W-40 for our four-season climate.  (Costco now carries its own private label brand oil.)  I run Chevron Delo 400 in the Ram diesel.  You may have a synthetic or other oil you prefer.  I would not switch to synthetic oil until after break-in.

Moses

[Mike House]

Thanks for all the great insight Moses! I have been thinking a lot about “break in” and just how I should go about it. I will likely have this engine and transmission sitting in the frame and ready to run in the next few weeks. I won’t be ready to drive it for another 4-6 months. Is there any harm in running the engine once I get it in plumbed and wired? 
mid getting it up to temperature and shutting it down going to have any drawbacks or impact on break in? 
thanks

Mike

[Moses Ludel]

As long as you get the engine to full warm-up temperature, it should be fine.  When you refer to "plumbed", I'm assuming you mean complete cooling system in place with coolant and distilled water or premixed coolant installed?  You mentioned a new radiator, be sure the cooling system is clean in every area.

Fully warm and idling, adjust the idle mix on the carburetor then run the engine at 1200-1400 rpm for a few minutes...Some change the oil filter (no crankcase draining) after the first run-up, which is not a bad idea.  The first filter has captured any initial metallic substances in the system.  I prime a new filter with fresh oil, just enough to keep from spilling during installation.  Start up the engine, circulate oil, shut down, top off to Full mark with oil and a bit more zinc additive, then bring the engine to warm operating temperature and park it.  Should be fine if the antifreeze is good for -34 degrees F (a 50/50 mix) and has circulated thoroughly, including through the heater core.

[Mike House]

Plumbed! Yes that is what I was referring to. I am so used to sawmill terms when installing new equipment. I have drifted a ways from my roots in heavy equipment and light truck work. 

That sounds reasonable for warming it up. I will flush that new radiator with the garden hose thoroughly before I install it. 

I sent my original carburetor to a guy in Atlanta to be rebuilt. He called yesterday and told me it was good to go and shipped it back my way. I should see it before the end of the week. 

This morning before it got to busy around the house I snuck out to the garage and completed the Melling high volume pump upgrade. It all went together pretty seamlessly. Those are very tight clearances on the housing for the two gears. I could see it being an issue if the spacer plate was not centered perfectly when drilling the holes for the roll pins. 

I will get a few oil filters on hand for the initial start up of this engine. I have so many new parts going into the engine and with everything getting cut or bored at the machine shop I will likely get some metal flushed out. 

I will post some pics of the pump upgrade. 

Also made good progress with the body..... a new body showed up Friday. I will keep the old body for a future project. There is very little to work with other than the grill and the fire wall. I don't think there is a square inch of the tub that hasn't been cut, welded, smashed up, layered with steel on steel on rust. It is not a total loss. I just don't have the time, tools, space or skill level to rebuild the body right now. 

I am very happy with the MD Juan body that I purchased through CandC equipment. They were very good to work with and the body showed up within 3 days of the time I purchased it.  

[Mike House]

[Mike House]

[Mike House]

[Moses Ludel]

Now you're cookin', Mike!...Thanks for illustrating the indexing and fit of the Melling pump gear spacer plate and spring roll pins.  This, as you share, must be spot on alignment to prevent the gears from chewing up the spacer!  Good work, the alignment looks right on...

The orange spring at 40 psi makes perfect sense.  You will have 40 psi at the increased, long gear volume.  You know hydraulics—this is a substantial gain.  The pump will be thoroughly lubricating the bearings and top end, and the rocker shaft valvetrain is the significant concern.  Nice!

The new body should be everybody's envy!  I am a 3B buff, and like you note, this is the 80-inch wheelbase solution to rust, aged metal and endless hours fussing with sheet metal work and prep.  The base coat looks ready for primer sealer (unless it's included here) and a color coat.  See my exchanges with "ian CJ10" about paint and equipment, protection, etc.  I am a big fan of the Turbine Products BreatheCool system for safe work with the spray gun.  (You can even get a second air flow hood for your helper, too!)  I have the welding helmet attachment as well.  Use the search box here at the forums for details on the BreatheCool system.

Thanks for sharing the photos, the progress is impressive!

Moses

[Mike House]

[Mike House]

Thanks Moses,

Pics above are some more work I completed today. I purchased the adapter from Novak. Everything went together no problem.

 

I am fortunate to have both the time and the resources to keep moving on this project. Often when I have the time I don't have the resources and when I have the resources I don't have the time. This project is moving a long nicely. I am trying to stay focused on not cutting corners and getting in a rush to finish. 

The new body really puts this project in high gear. I appreciate all of the info on painting and paint supplies. I suppose it is time to start thinking about the paint. All of the painting I have done in the past has been on industrial or heavy equipment and certainly nothing like this. I do have a guy at work who has a small paint shop. I have been bending his ear about painting the jeep.

So I am going to need exhaust soon. I got to looking closely at my exhaust manifolds and there has been some brazing done on both sides to repair broken flanges and the bolt holes. I am going to get new. I read a lot of your (Moses) feedback to others about manifolds vs headers and exhaust pipe. There is surprisingly a lot of talk on the forums about exhaust. I found these at Advanced Adapters 

https://www.advanceadapters.com/products/717005-np--outside-frame-rail-buick-225--231-ci-v6conversion-headers/

I also bought my universal motor mounts from AA so maybe this is the way to go. 

 

Valve Covers... I need a couple of valve covers and can not seem to find any. I have seen a few on ebay but there is nothing right now that I see. 

Does anyone have a resource for valve covers???

 

Mike 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mike House]

6 hours ago, Mike House said:

The wife picked up some Vaseline when she was at the store so I was able to pack the pump and close it up! 

[Moses Ludel]

Mike...Thanks for showing the packed oil pump cavity.  Buick V-6s, V-8 through the 425, and AMC V-8s need this to pick up initial oil!  Priming before first start will be added insurance.  I am guessing you used a quality engine assembly lube on the bearings.

I'm partial to AA for headers and have watched their actual assembly process.  Very nice work.  If you run a manual choke, headers are fine, running heat across the intake manifold via a heat riser is not as essential.  (The engine and carburetor base warmup period is longer without the heater riser, however.)  If you run a heat stove automatic choke, you will need cast manifolds with a heat riser valve to drive heat across the intake manifold beneath the carburetor. 

You can run a heat riser at the collector of a header, but I have done this with a vacuum actuated heat riser and use of a coolant thermal actuated vacuum switch.  Some use an electric choke and headers.  I'm okay with a manual choke, original on the 3B.

The headers work for performance and easy of access to the undercarriage and powertrain.  I strongly recommend running the mufflers and tailpipes to the rear of the vehicle in a normal, rear exit manner.  A muffler shop can construct that system with the mufflers behind the collectors and pipes routed to the rear of the tub and frame.  I never run mufflers and side exit stubby tailpipes forward of the rear wheel wells.  When driving off pavement, there is risk of exhaust fumes entering the occupant space, whether you run a cloth top or not.  You do not want to impair your health or that of occupants, especially riders in a rear seat.

In recent years, I went over the Rubicon Trail as a passenger in a V-8 powered flatfender with side exit pipe exhaust.  Fortunately, I was filming and could get out of the vehicle for long periods. The fumes were noxious.  Some think this is "cool", I don't.  I reached my lifetime quota of CO and HC from carbureted, rich-running, high altitude trail riding 4x4s many decades ago.

A full cage like I illustrate in my CJ Rebuilder's Manual and other books, preferrably with clamshell mounting to the frame for maximum protection, is a sensible safety approach for an 80" wheelbase vehicle driven both on- and off-highway.

Moses

[Mike House]

I used the Melling engine assembly lube with zinc that the machine shop provided with my rebuild kit for the bearings and Cam Shield cam shaft assembly lube on the cam. 

I will stick with the manual choke at least for now. I got a call from Atlanta Carburator and my carb is finished and on it's way back to me. One step closer! 

I think I will go with the Advanced Adapters headers. Thank you for the input. I will run the exhaust out the back of the jeep. I have a feeling my daughter will be my constant passenger in the jeep so we want to keep her out of the fumes. 

Hopefully some day soon I can take the family on a trail ride in the new jeep. We may not make it to the Rubicon any time soon but there is a lot of opportunities out here in the blue mountains and Carolinas. 

I will open up the book and check out that roll cage. I have not put much thought into the roll cage but I know it will be time soon. 

[Mike House]

Just now, Mike House said:

I used the Melling engine assembly lube with zinc that the machine shop provided with my rebuild kit for the bearings and Cam Shield cam shaft assembly lube on the cam. 

I will stick with the manual choke at least for now. I got a call from Atlanta Carburator and my carb is finished and on it's way back to me. One step closer! 

I think I will go with the Advanced Adapters headers. Thank you for the input. I will run the exhaust out the back of the jeep. I have a feeling my daughter will be my constant passenger in the jeep so we want to keep her out of the fumes. 

Hopefully some day soon I can take the family on a trail ride in the new jeep. We may not make it to the Rubicon any time soon but there is a lot of opportunities out here in the blue mountains and Carolinas. 

I will open up the book and check out that roll cage. I have not put much thought into the roll cage but I know it will be time soon. 

 

[Moses Ludel]

Excellent, Mike...You're protecting the engine with the assembly lube.  The manual choke will work fine if it also ramps up the idle speed.  The OEM choke linkage cam should lift the idle speed with the choke on.

Moses

[Mike House]

[Mike House]

Some parts showed up this week so I went back to work on the 3B.

Fuel pump eccentric, distributor drive gear, oil slinger and timing chain tensioner. I closed up the front of the engine. I am waiting to put the intake manifold and valve covers on until I can prime the oil system. I am waiting for the right tool. I made a tool but struggled to keep it centered on the oil pump drive gear so I ordered the right tool. 
The flywheel came back from the shop so I was able to get the clutch mounted and the transmission bolted up! Feels like progress! Once I am able to get oil pressure to the system and see it in the heads I will feel much better! 

[Moses Ludel]

Mike...Have the crankcase oil at normal Full level and engine at the correct angle when priming.  Oil will fill the filter and drop the oil level a bit.  After oil is fully primed and has drained back into the crankcase, top off the crankcase oil level...You're close!

Moses

[Mike House]

Thanks Moses!. 

[Mike House]

Engine is in and mounts are welded out. Hung the grill so that I can position the radiator and build mounts for it. 

[Mike House]

On 3/20/2021 at 6:44 PM, Mike House said:

The wife picked up some Vaseline when she was at the store so I was able to pack the pump and close it up! 

So I have ran into some potential concerns with oil pump. I am not sure if I am over thinking this or not. Hopefully I can get some feedback.

Oil priming tool showed up so I proceeded to spin the pump with an electric drill and check oil pressure and flow to the heads. Upon spinning the pump I could feel the resistance and began to get oil pressure. The resistance increased and began to drag the drill down. I was only able to get about 10lbs of pressure on the new gauge. This is with the Melling high volume pump upgrade, orange 40lb spring and the provided plat that is designed to restore the potentially scored surface of the pump body/housing. After several attempts I was never able to achieve more than about 15 lbs of pressure and a little oil showing up around the lifters. 

I pulled the high volume pump gears and spacer plate out and put the new gears that came with my engine rebuild kit in and see what I got. I was able to get about 25 lbs of oil pressure. I thought I would try a different spring. I installed the 60lb spring and the other new pressure relief valve in the housing. When I spun the pump with the 60lb spring I was able to achieve 40lbs of pressure. 

just to check flow I loosened the rocker arm assemblies and left them in place on the head. I spun the pump and did get a high volume of oil up to the top of the head on both sides. I re-torqued the rocker shafts back in place and spun the pump again. I was able to get oil through the rockers at 40lbs of oil pressure but not a lot. I may need to disassemble the rocker shafts and clean them out a bit better. This engine did sit outside for a while. 

I have read dozens of posts on line about oiling for these engines. 

All of this to ask. What should I do next? 

I am looking at two things right now.

1) replace the slightly scored oil pump body/housing

2) Definitely pull the rocker shafts apart and clean out. 

I am using a new timing cover. I wonder if they may have machined the bore for the relief valve too deep and that is why I got adequate oil pressure when I installed the higher pressure spring.....

Any help would be great.

Thanks,

Mike 

[Moses Ludel]

Hi, Mike...First off, let's consider the drill motor speed.  What is the rpm?  Is the drill stalling?  What size drill motor is this?  Where is the oil gauge attached?  At the OEM oil sender fitting on the block?  There could still be air in the oiling system, in the lifters, and so forth, that is not allowing the gauge to read full pressure yet.  Also, the petroleum jelly is working its way through the system.

Pressure is strictly limited by the pressure relief valve and spring.  A leak at the relief plunger would negatively impact oil pressure.  Check this first.  Determine whether the plunger fits properly in the bore without excess clearance between the plunger and the bore.  Measure the I.D. of the bore and the O.D. of the plunger.  If there is a significant discrepancy here, that could impact the oil pressure.

The test you made with the stock set of pump gears is revealing.   Your oil pressure is still on the low side unless you go overboard with the spring pressure.  (Note, too, that the long gears on the Melling high volume kit should not adversely affect oil flow—quite the opposite.  The long gears will increase flow volume and easily hold whatever pressure determined by the relief valve and spring.)  When you boosted pump spring pressure and saw an increase in pressure, though not enough, that makes checking out the relief valve plunger bore and plunger important.

Worth mentioning and often overlooked, an excess amount of engine bearing lube can sometimes inhibit initial oil flow.  What I like to do with a fresh engine while oil priming is to slowly rotate the crankshaft with a ratchet and socket on the crank bolt.  Make sure rocker shafts are torque'd in place before rotating the crankshaft.  If there is an overabundance of assembly lube in your engine, rotating the crankshaft will gradually thin the assembly lube as it mixes with your light engine oil.  I would try this approach before diving deeply into an engine that is now in the chassis.

If there is still an issue here, I would consider the following:

1)  Blockages to oil flow such as dirt, debris, a physical blockage like the camshaft bearing oil indexing holes not lining up with the block oil passages).  Did you change the cam bearings?  Are the camshaft bearing oil holes aligned correctly?  Pressure bleed-off from loose crankshaft bearing clearances is unlikely, you checked these carefully with Plastigage.

2)  An oil pickup issue like the pump screen does not set near the base of the oil pan, or the pump screen tube is not sealing properly at the engine block.  (A leak on the oil pickup side would dramatically drop pressure output.)  The oil pump gears should be fine, they're new, presumed to be properly machined gears.  The timing cover oil pump bore-to-gear clearance must be correct, though.

3)  Oil pump pressure issue like the plunger is missing or not fitting well (loose in the bore).  Wrong spring, which is doubtful since Melling was clear with the color choices.  The bypass pressure relief spring and plunger must fit properly with correct plunger-to-bore fit.  The timing cover bore must be true and machined for proper pump gear-to-wall clearances.

4)  Any bleed-off of pressure at major oil galleys can be a problem.  This includes loose or missing cup plugs and threaded pipe plugs that terminate galleys.  If an oil plug gets left out or loose, there will be a major loss of oil pressure.  There would be a visible leak if the plug is at the outer portion of the block or head(s).  When an internal galley plug is left out, the oil returns to the oil pan, and the only symptom is a large drop in oil pressure.

The lack of oil flow at the rocker shafts, unless clogged like you hint, suggests a lack of oil volume through the system.  I would loosen one rocker shaft (1/8" is plenty, don't remove it) just enough to expose the oil feed hole through the head.  Spin the pump and see whether oil flows steadily through this passageway.  Steadily is the word, you want the system free of oil gaps and air.  Another place to check flow for gaps and air is the gauge port (NPT fitting) in the block.  Oil should flow steadily there.

Since the pump gears spin in the timing cover pump bore, a worn or improperly bored timing cover will definitely reduce oil flow volume and pressure.  If there is distinct wear or a clearance misfit between the pump gears and housing, that would be an issue.  You have a new cover in place, so if there is any concern, it would be whether the bore was machined out of round or possibly oversized.  I like your idea of confirming bore diameters and sizing related to oil pump function. 

Moses

 

 

[Mike House]

[Mike House]

1 hour ago, Moses Ludel said:

Hi, Mike...First off, let's consider the drill motor speed.  What is the rpm?  Is the drill stalling?  What size drill motor is this?  Where is the oil gauge attached?  At the OEM oil sender fitting on the block?  There could still be air in the oiling system, in the lifters, and so forth, that is not allowing the gauge to read full pressure yet.  Also, the petroleum jelly is working its way through the system.

Pressure is strictly limited by the pressure relief valve and spring.  A leak at the relief plunger would negatively impact oil pressure.  Check this first.  Determine whether the plunger fits properly in the bore without excess clearance between the plunger and the bore.  Measure the I.D. of the bore and the O.D. of the plunger.  If there is a significant discrepancy here, that could impact the oil pressure.

The test you made with the stock set of pump gears is revealing.   Your oil pressure is still on the low side unless you go overboard with the spring pressure.  (Note, too, that the long gears on the Melling high volume kit should not adversely affect oil flow—quite the opposite.  The long gears will increase flow volume and easily hold whatever pressure determined by the relief valve and spring.)  When you boosted pump spring pressure and saw an increase in pressure, though not enough, that makes checking out the relief valve plunger bore and plunger important.

Worth mentioning and often overlooked, an excess amount of engine bearing lube can sometimes inhibit initial oil flow.  What I like to do with a fresh engine while oil priming is to slowly rotate the crankshaft with a ratchet and socket on the crank bolt.  Make sure rocker shafts are torque'd in place before rotating the crankshaft.  If there is an overabundance of assembly lube in your engine, rotating the crankshaft will gradually thin the assembly lube as it mixes with your light engine oil.  I would try this approach before diving deeply into an engine that is now in the chassis.

If there is still an issue here, I would consider the following:

1)  Blockages to oil flow such as dirt, debris, a physical blockage like the camshaft bearing oil indexing holes not lining up with the block oil passages).  Did you change the cam bearings?  Are the camshaft bearing oil holes aligned correctly?  Pressure bleed-off from loose crankshaft bearing clearances is unlikely, you checked these carefully with Plastigage.

2)  An oil pickup issue like the pump screen does not set near the base of the oil pan, or the pump screen tube is not sealing properly at the engine block.  (A leak on the oil pickup side would dramatically drop pressure output.)  The oil pump gears should be fine, they're new, presumed to be properly machined gears.  The timing cover oil pump bore-to-gear clearance must be correct, though.

3)  Oil pump pressure issue like the plunger is missing or not fitting well (loose in the bore).  Wrong spring, which is doubtful since Melling was clear with the color choices.  The bypass pressure relief spring and plunger must fit properly with correct plunger-to-bore fit.  The timing cover bore must be true and machined for proper pump gear-to-wall clearances.

4)  Any bleed-off of pressure at major oil galleys can be a problem.  This includes loose or missing cup plugs and threaded pipe plugs that terminate galleys.  If an oil plug gets left out or loose, there will be a major loss of oil pressure.  There would be a visible leak if the plug is at the outer portion of the block or head(s).  When an internal galley plug is left out, the oil returns to the oil pan, and the only symptom is a large drop in oil pressure.

The lack of oil flow at the rocker shafts, unless clogged like you hint, suggests a lack of oil volume through the system.  I would loosen one rocker shaft (1/8" is plenty, don't remove it) just enough to expose the oil feed hole through the head.  Spin the pump and see whether oil flows steadily through this passageway.  Steadily is the word, you want the system free of oil gaps and air.  Another place to check flow for gaps and air is the gauge port (NPT fitting) in the block.  Oil should flow steadily there.

Since the pump gears spin in the timing cover pump bore, a worn or improperly bored timing cover will definitely reduce oil flow volume and pressure.  If there is distinct wear or a clearance misfit between the pump gears and housing, that would be an issue.  You have a new cover in place, so if there is any concern, it would be whether the bore was machined out of round or possibly oversized.  I like your idea of confirming bore diameters and sizing related to oil pump function. 

Moses

 

 

Thanks Moses,

 

You make many good points here. 

First off the drill motor is half inch drive 7amp 3100 rpm. I may have been a little heavy handed with the bearing assembly lube. Turning the engine over by hand is a good point. I did read about this from another source but had forgotten about it. I will first spin the pump again while rotating the engine by hand. If this does not help than I will check out that relief valve fit. It seemed tight enough that it took a little work to get it to come out of the bore with oil on it. 

[Mike House]

The pic is indicating where the oil pressure gauge supply line is located. So I removed the valve covers, turned the engine by hand while turning the pump with the drill motor. I did have good flow of oil to both heads and around the rocker shafts at the rocker arms. The pressure never made it above 35 lbs. No visible oil leaks anywhere. I would think if I were missing a plug in the block somewhere I would not be able to change the oil pressure by changing the relief valve spring. Seems that the oil would take the path of least resistance and all the pressure would go to that missing plug hole. 

I installed a new oil pick up tube before putting the oil pan on and I am confident with the gasket and bolts.....

I am leaning towards an issue with the bore in the relief valve port. I will dig into it more tomorrow.

Thanks for the help. 

 

Mike 

[Moses Ludel]

Let us know what you find, Mike...As for a leak from a loose or missing plug, keep in mind that the oil pump volume is way more than the regulated flow.  The pump can compensate for some leakage, there would be a point where the excess flow could not compensate enough.  By design, the plunger is actually bleeding off oil excess volume.  The more pressure/volume, the further the plunger moves, with the (balance) spring as a calibrated counter-force. 

It would be unlikely that an oil plug has been left out, most are external.  However, on the Buick 225 V-6, there are two drive-in cup plugs at the front face of the block that terminate the oil galleys through the lifters.  I looked through your photos of the engine during assembly, and these two internal plugs are in place and look new.  They are behind the camshaft sprocket.  Doubtful there's an internal oil leak.

If any of the rear block plugs are missing, you would being seeing oil on the floor at some point.  Let us know your latest findings...

Moses

[Mike House]

Thanks for the follow up Moses. Glad you took a look at the posted photos. I had not gone back through them yet. 

I did notice on the Melling pump kit that it indicates how far the spring should stick out from the timing cover. I will check that out tonight. 

[Moses Ludel]

Smart move on stick out of the spring, Mike...Also check the bore depths between the original timing cover and the new cover.  The concern here is the compressed length of the spring.  If the bore depths are not a match, the spring may not be compressing properly.

Let's see what you find...

Moses

[Mike House]

[Mike House]

I think I found the smoking gun.... my orange 40 lb spring should be protruding beyond the housing by 21/64 of an inch. It is barely flush. I wrote my measurements down next to each spring. Spring lengths check out. It looks like my pump housing relieve valve bore is too deep. 
I could shim the spring or buy a new pump housing. My pump housing is slightly scored and a new one is about 100 bucks. I believe I will buy a new one. 
What do you think?

Mke

[Mike House]

When in doubt go read the directions....😁

[Mike House]

[Mike House]

Top pic is the side view of the relief valve housing. The orange spring and valve are installed and bottomed out in the housing. The spring is not visible. It is not protruding at all. 
in the second pic if you zoom in you can just barely see the orange spring. 

[Moses Ludel]

Well, this helped, Mike!  Looks like the culprit all right and explains the symptoms.  Brings into question how the bore got so deep.  Or is this the wrong plunger?  If there's housing damage that could impair function, consider replacing the housing.  If damage is not significant, see if the problem is the plunger length.

If possible, have the supplier check the depth of the bore before purchasing.  Is the plunger available?  Have a supplier measure the replacement plunger.  I would avoid buying parts unless they solve the bore/plunger depth issue.

Aren't you glad this turned up before firing the engine?  Priming is useful in several ways...

Moses

[Mike House]

Thanks Moses,

Absolutely!  I was relieved to finally find something that is definitively not right. I would have never fired this engine off had I not been confident in the oil flow and pressure. I believe I will still pull the rocker shafts apart and clean them out. Once I get the oil pump situation corrected I will check for oil flow at the rocker shafts. I did have oil present at the rocker shafts and rocker arms when priming but it didn't seem like enough. 

I have three plungers. The one that was in it, the one that came with the high volume pump kit and the one that came with the engine rebuild kit. They are all three the exact same length and diameter. 

I watched a bunch of videos on line showing people drilling out the pump housing and/or timing cover to increase volume... I wonder if some one went at this thing with a drill at some point...

My purchasing of parts has outpaced my progress on the jeep. I have a garage full of new parts (including the new body) I know there a lot worse problems to have!  

[Moses Ludel]

Perseverance, right?  It's a "project" in every sense of the word, Mike...

 

[Mike House]

Mystery solved. My new oil pump housing showed up and the plunger and spring seat as they should. I reassembled the high volume pump kit with the new pump housing spun the pump with the drill and have a steady 45 lbs of oil pressure! Big relief to have this behind me. If all goes well I will fire that engine up this weekend!

Pic of the new housing with the valve and spring installed. 

[Moses Ludel]

Well, Mike, with no pun intended, that's a relief!  The right part, the right fix, all the result of your catching the comments about spring stick-out length.

45 PSI is plenty, presuming you have the long gears in place.  That should provide all the oil this engine needs if the warm oil pressure stays at 40-45 PSI.

Let us know how the fire-up goes...a milestone.

Moses

[Mike House]

Haha yes a relief for sure.

I don’t know the history of this engine but I can just imagine  it was parked at some point due to no oil pressure. Maybe some one drilled that housing out thinking they were going to increase oil pressure or volume... 

[Moses Ludel]

Regardless of "why", you figured out the riddle, Mike...Good call.

[Mike House]

Thanks Moses. One step closer!

[Mike House]

Fired up the dauntless V6 today! I was pleasantly surprised when the engine only made a few revolutions before it roared to life. Very minor adjustment of the timing and it was idling smooth! Oil pressure a steady 45 lbs! 
so gratifying!!! 
Funny thing it was 1year and 1day ago that I took this engine from the goats in this pasture in North Georgia and brought it home for my project! Time flys! 
Moses thanks for all the help along the way! 

[Moses Ludel]

This really is exciting, Mike!  Congratulations...The oil pressure is ideal, especially with the long ("high volume") oil pump gears...Enjoy the moment!

Moses

[Mike House]

I went with an electric fan to cool the engine. Corrected two small water leaks and ran the engine. I let the engine get up to about 195 deg and turned the fan on. In just a few minutes the temp dropped down to under 180. I think I will need to build a shroud but I’m going to wait until I run the Jeep a bit before I make that decision. 
I have a minor oil leak on the rear of the  intake  manifold. I didn’t use an RTV on the seal when I installed it. I may go back and do that. 
next I will build a mount for my clutch slave cylinder and than it’s time to fit the new tub on!!!

[Moses Ludel]

Hi, Mike...By the design of the electric fan and its built-in shroud, there would be no gain by adding a full radiator shroud.  The fan mounts near the radiator core and pulls directly through the core.  The area it covers is the only area this type fan will service.  That's okay, though, if you're getting the cooling results you describe.  The fan covers a good bit of the core's real estate and looks like a strong  CFM flow.

You are likely running a thermostatic control on the fan.  The fan should only come on as needed.  Otherwise, it can create an air block.  You're on the right track for an electric fan installation.

I'm curious why you decided to go with an electric fan.  Was this a space consideration?

Moses

[Mike House]

Thanks Moses,

The engine did not have a fan or a fan shroud when I pulled it from the donor vehicle. I needed a fan and I wanted to be able to control when it came on and off so I went with electric. The fan I installed moves 2400 CFM.

[Moses Ludel]

Good CFM flow, Mike...At stock compression ratio and horsepower, the BTUs are not excessive.  This should work well. 

Are you using a thermostatic control for automatically switching the fan on-and-off?  If not, I have some suggestions.

Moses

[Mike House]

Thanks Moses. The fan i purchased came with thermostatic control and a fuse block relay etc. 

[Mike House]

I had to move the engine forward about 2.5” to get the firewall clearance I needed. Looks like I will be adding drivelines to my list! 
I am pretty happy with the alignment of the tub fenders grill and hood. Everything bolts up and looks good. I have not drilled the holes for the tub yet but it lands the hat channel over the frame mounts so I should be in good shape! 
I have given myself a completion date of October! I think I am tracking to get it done target date!

[Moses Ludel]

Showing promise now, Mike...Glad you have an enthusiastic helper!  She will expect you to hand over the keys on her sixteenth birthday...

[Mike House]

[Mike House]

Final fitting of the body before I pull it back apart for painting and finishing a few things on the chassis. 
I am upgrading to swinging pedals hydraulic clutch and a master cylinder on the firewall. I built a plate to reinforce the fire wall behind the pedals. 
Mounted some tail lights and drilled the dash for gages. 

[Mike House]

[Mike House]

[Moses Ludel]

WOW, you're moving along, Mike...Quite a venture and looking good!  Classic lines, modern safety items, the right mix...Moses

[Mike House]

Just so that I could feel like I’m making progress and motivation to get this project across the finish line I went ahead and mounted the wheels and tires on the heep this evening. I’ve had them in the garage for a few months now. 
they are a 32x11.5x15 with -12 offset. I like the stance it has! It’s a little high a little wide but not extreme! 

[Moses Ludel]

Mike...For safety, you need the wide to offset the high (center-of-gravity).  There is still the short 80" wheelbase.  I stick with a stock steering wheel diameter to avoid the "sprint car" steering feel of smaller aftermarket steering wheels.  Grant made a wheel close to the stock Willys diameter if you decide to go aftermarket.  Aesthetically, I like the OEM/stock steering wheel and horn button.

A stunning profile, there is nothing like the 3B!  These 80" wheelbase 3Bs sold right alongside the 81" wheelbase CJ5 and 101" wheelbase CJ6 into the sixties.  Anyone can see why—just look at your fine example!

Moses

[Mike House]

I have made some more progress on the 3b! 
spoiler alert it is now orange! 
I sprayed the entire jeep inside outside and under side with Raptorliner safety Orange! I like how it turned out! Everything else will be black. 
I bought some seats from a 2000 jeep. Stepped then shortened them and had a buddy put in new foam seats cushions and upholstery. 

[Mike House]

I also granted myself an extension and now plan to be driving it by the end of December! 
I have 9 straight days off at the end of November so fingers crossed I can spend a good deal of that time on the jeep!

[Moses Ludel]

Extension to the end of December well deserved!  What a cool color, Mike!  Nice work there, it looks great.  Very thorough effort top and bottom, which should seal seams well.  In your climate, any effort to block the effects of moisture is smart, and this should do it!  This should be rugged and easier to keep clean...You did wear a respirator, right?

I can see the steering column and wheel in this view.  Looks optimal!  The Saginaw manual gear should be fairly slow lock-to-lock, which you want.  Check the ratio.  If faster, the steering wheel might be small and create overly sensitive steering response.  If so, Grant made (makes?) a large diameter wheel that is near the OEM Willys steering wheel diameter.  You'll see that wheel in my Jeep® CJ Rebuilder's Manual.

Moses

[Mike House]

Well it’s the end of the year! ….. I’m not done but I am so close! The 3b is alive! The steering is complete aligned and works great! I have completed all of the Wireing with the exception of lights for the front and rear bumpers but the wires are there. I just need to add toggle switches and wire in the relays. 
drive lines are in. Brakes and clutch are bled and adjusted! Everything works great! I’m so happy with how far this project has come! 
my daughter and I drive the jeep up and down the driveway and around the property a couple times a week and we even drove it about 3 miles over to a buddies house. 
mom the to do list

windshield

rollbar

bumpers

rear seat

 

[Mike House]

I will have all of that Wireing on the fire wall cleaned up and tucked into split loom before I am done also.

[Moses Ludel]

Mike, Happy New Year!  The CJ3B is really coming together, even self-propelled now...Thanks for posting the photos, they provide a clear picture of your progress.

The wiring is a delight, nice work with the terminal junctions and heat shrink insulators that will keep terminals weather resistance. 

Really nice work, Mike, worth the considerable time and energy.  This will be a safe and reliable vehicle—on the road in 2022!

Moses

[Mike House]

Thankyou for all of the support and encouragement Moses. I’m working hard to get this project to the “finish line” which is licensed and road worthy. I will have plenty of work to do on this jeep in the coming years. 
I have had a couple set backs with windshield glass and hood alignment. 
I did make progress on the front of the jeep. I extended the frame 3”,  I finished my bumper, closed in the front of the frame with channel modifies a winch mounting plate and mounted the new winch. I notched out around the steering box in case I ever needed to remove it considering I welded the winch plate instead of bolting it. I have some lights to add still. 
oh and cleaned up and painted the headlight buckets and I installed  them. I painted the bezels black! I’m going for the all orange and black theme. 

[Moses Ludel]

Hi, Mike...Really stout fitment of the winch with a smart effort to box and support the front frame horns.  This aids the steering mount and winch support.  Good work!

If you need any incentive for getting to the finish line, the final photo says it all:  Nothing like the CJ3B profile and two kids excited about being part of the "Jeep Life!"

Moses

[Mike House]

Thanks Moses,

I am happy with how it all came together. I am going to have to add some weight to the back of the jeep now. hahaha all of the weight is up front with that engine steering, bumper and winch. I will likely build a swing out tire carrier for the back.

I mounted some lights up front today. They are a 3.5" LED light. They have kind of a blacked out look to them. 

Last weekend I broke my windshield glass trying to put it in the frame. I got a little heavy handed with it....... The new glass arrived today. So I will take it to the glass shop in the morning. 

I purchased a roll bar online that is from a late 70s cj5. I am going to modify it to fit the 3b. I like the look of that roll bar and the angles. The width is good but the overall footprint length is too long. It shouldn't be too difficult to make it fit just right. 

[Moses Ludel]

Good plans, Mike...The roll bar is a must with or without the kids.  I like the clamshell approach illustrated in my CJ manual, it ties to the frame and uses cushion mounts where the two sections meet at the tub.  This allows for body-to-frame flex.

The OE "roll bars" in the sixties and seventies were body mounted to sheet metal only.  You don't plan to roll over (who ever does?), but if that happened, body-mounted bars have been known to separate from the body.  Sometimes the entire body separates from the frame—with the roll bar attached.

The windshield can be tricky.  Glass is tough to install into the rubber sealing channel.  Good call to have a glass shop install the windshield.

Moses

[Mike House]

Thanks Moses,

Glass is in. That’s a relief. I have the roll bar modified and fitted. I will build the pieces to attach to the frame. I see several options for these parts online I may just buy the pieces. 
I am considering getting rid of the piano hinge for the hood and replacing it with cj7 hinges. The hinge was welded on out of square and as a result I can’t get the hood squared up. 
here is a pic to see how it would look. 

[Moses Ludel]

What an beautiful 3B, Mike...You had a vision and brought it to fruition.  Others will appreciate the scope of your restore and how much you modernized this Jeep.  You're on the road now with this eye-catching classic!

Be aware that this is an 80-inch wheelbase Jeep with quick steering input and response.  I liken the effect to "sprint car" steering.  Add to this the high center-of-gravity (which you offset considerably and wisely with your wide wheels and tires), and you have a totally different driving experience.  On highway, it's the quick steering response;  off-pavement, it's the high center of gravity.  You're a seasoned driver and have precious cargo on board.  Seat belts are mandatory.

As a footnote, this is why I use a big diameter steering wheel on vintage Jeep projects.  A big wheel and the correct pitman arm length will damp down the sprint car feel.  Whatever steering ratios you choose, I know you'll adapt.

My comments are solely intended to enhance your driving fun and safety.  I'm sure you'll get the maximum out of this major project.  You deserve the inherent good times a flatfender CJ3B can provide!

Moses

[Mike House]

Thank you Moses! I am getting so close! I appreciate all of your input and feedback! 
Seatbelts and a rear seat coming soon! 
I bought this steering wheel over a year ago. Looking back I should have waited until I actually needed it and had completed the steering upgrade. I may still swap it out if after a little more driving I decide that I don’t like it. 
I look forward to the first time I drive this jeep to town. I think my first longer road trip will be 50 miles to Athens GA to see Dave at the engine shop where I had the machine work done on the 225. He was pretty excited about this project! 
thanks again Moses!

 

Mike
 

[Mike House]

[Moses Ludel]

So close, Mike!  When you bolt the seat belts to the floor, use thick safety washers that cover some real estate.  (There are specific washers for this purpose.)  The right washers will reduce risk of belt hardware pulling the bolts through the tub sheet metal. 

This is a beauty from every angle!  I shared the scope of your project with my wife, she's witnessed my 4x4 "projects" for the 45 years we've been married.  Donna immediately recognized and identified the huge amount of detailed work you have done.

When you started, I raised my eyebrows about the frame and body condition, you had so much to do...and you did it!!!!

Moses

[Mike House]

I really appreciate your input , feedback and guidance! When I bought this jeep it was more about the timing and less about the scope of work that lay ahead of me. I had been looking for a 3b and was getting impatient not finding what I was looking for. When this one showed up on Craig’s list I decided to buy it before I ever looked at it! It was a bigger project than I was looking for! 
I am pleased with where I am at now and have really enjoyed building this jeep! 
It means a lot to me knowing that you approve. The fact that your wife approves as well having been a part of your many years in the business is the real test! 
Thanks so much for all the input!

Mike

[Moses Ludel]

Glad it's all working out, Mike...The larger challenges were met, your emphasis on safety and reliability will pay off with years of family fun.  Kids remember their "Jeep childhood", a great place to build lasting memories!

Moses

[Mike House]

Almost done! Added some mirrors, hood latches on, hood blocks on. 
need to paint the “WILLYS” on the hood and grill. 
I bought some 12v wiper motors but haven’t installed them yet. 

[Moses Ludel]

What a transformation, Mike...You should have a big sense of accomplishment.  Many of us have watched and cheered from the sidelines.  You did the heavy lifting!

Moses

[Mike House]

Went for a short drive today! 
 

thanks Moses! I’m going to see about getting it licensed this week and make it official!!!

[Moses Ludel]

How fun, Mike...The '3B looks great...Enjoy the fruit of all this labor!

Moses

[Mike House]

[Mike House]

I am so pleased with how the 3b has turned out!
A few pictures from today! I am not going to call it complete but I think I have to switch from project mode to “just a few more upgrades” haha! 
When I get in front of my computer this weekend I will post a brief summary of this project and some lessons learned. 
Mike

[Moses Ludel]

Wonderful, Mike!  There is only one 3B, and you made this particular one a head-turner!  Cannot believe the transformation, a monumental accomplishment from the beginning state to now!  

Plate it, and enjoy it...

Moses

[Mike House]

Thank you Moses! And thank you for all the encouragement and guidance along the way.

Time for a summary.

 

[Mike House]

1956 Cj3B RESTOMOD summary.

I purchased this jeep April 3rd 2020 for $1,200.

I was unable to get the 4clinder engine freed up so I started looking at options for an engine. I found a Dauntless V6 that was sitting in a CJ5 in North GA and purchased it for $500. This included the bell housing and flywheel.

I decided that the body was going to be too much work for me to repair myself. I did not have the time, tools or experience to do it right so I decided that when the time was right I would buy a complete replacement body from MD Juan.

I pulled the engine, transmission and body off of the frame and began to clean it up. I found the frame was broken just behind the spring hangar on the drivers side. I repaired this break in the frame.

I cleaned and painted the frame and axles.

Next I decided I would keep the T-90 and Dana 18 transmission and transfer case. I rebuilt the transmission and inspected the T case. 

I stripped the V-6 down and took everything the machine shop.

The engine was bored .020" over, crank turned, heads rebuilt. I installed new pistons, new cam and of course new bearings throughout.

I mated the transmission to the engine and located it in the frame. 

I purchased an aftermarket radiator and electric fan and fitted it to the engine and frame.

I upgraded the steering to a Saginaw steering system. 

I upgraded to a set of swing pedals and hydraulic clutch and break master cylinder on the firewall.

For the new tub and body I went back and forth for a long time on the right direction for paint. 

I decided that I would spray the entire tub from top to bottom inside and out with Raptor Liner safety orange and all black accents including the windshield frame.

I opted not to buy a new wiring harness. Instead I decided that I would wire everything from scratch. These old jeeps don't require a complicated wiring system. I used a fuse box, relays and wiring terminal blocks instead. 

I purchased some seats from a 90s YJ and had them recovered by a friend. I cut the backs down so they would not be so tall. 

I purchased a roll bar from a late 70s CJ5 and modified it to fit the 3B.

I extended the frame, boxed it in and added a winch to the front of the jeep. 

After driving it around for a few weeks I decided that the jeep needed new springs. I purchased a set of springs and u-bolts and installed them last weekend. 

The project was an absolute joy! In the end I built a jeep that was nothing like what I envisioned when I brought the 3B home two years ago. I purchased the jeep with the intentions of making it run and drive it around on my property and that was about it. The finished product is now my pride and joy! 

All in I have spent about $12,000 on parts and the engine work. The single biggest purchase being the body kit. It was well worth the money. 

Lessons learned.

Plan as far in advance as possible. I did not do a very good job at this and as a result spent some money on parts that I did not use and spent some time completing steps that I did not need to. (Steering upgrade)

Do your homework. There is a wealth of information and advice on line. Just don't let the volume of advice compromise your common sense. 

Purchase the "Jeep CJ Rebuilders Guide" by Moses Ludel! All of the technical data you will need. 

 

Thanks Again Moses for all of the encouragement, advice and feedback a long the way! 

PS I am in the market for a Willys Wagon. I am hoping to find a decent body. Frame, engine and drive train optional. I plan to upgrade to a modern drive train. 

Mike

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Moses Ludel]

Mike, this is a highly reliable and functional finished product.  Your family can be safe and have fun.  The body tub and liner material, despite the cost, is an investment.  Given your climate and the history of the OEM body tubs with regard to rust, you have virtually eliminated that issue with your liner choice.  The liner acts as a seam sealer, which is otherwise very difficult to achieve on a new tub with conventional automotive sealer/caulk, primer and paint.

The powertrain is built to last for decades.  The steering system is more modern than the OE.  This is now the vehicle you can consider a permanent member of the family "fleet".

Great work and thanks for the forthright message to others about "planning" ahead with a project.  It does save time, cost and unnecessary labor.  You will amortize your investment in this CJ3B many times over, it's a classic Jeep with sensible modern upgrades.

Where did you wind up with the brakes?  Did you keep the OE 9" brakes?  Do you need an 11" x 2" drum brake upgrade with a dual master cylinder?  Is the master cylinder for your swinging pedals a dual type?  In the day, the 11" x 2" upgrade was ample, disc brakes are unnecessary unless you plan a lot of stream fording. 

The original 11" Jeep conversions were postwar (1949-up) Lincoln 11" backing plates and brake drums, which had the Jeep's 5-on-5-1/2" bolt circle.  The backing plates were center cut to fit over the front wheel hubs.  The later aftermarket kits mimic the Lincoln backing plates and drums with common wheel cylinders.  If you do the conversion, just make sure your master cylinder (bore diameter and stroke) will displace enough fluid for the larger wheel cylinders.  

Moses

[Mike House]

Thanks Mose! Always appreciate your feedback.

I had a disc brake upgrade on n my punch list but never completed it. I tore into the 9” drum brakes and surprisingly everything was in really good shape. I purchased a master cylinder and mounted it with the swing pedals. I ran all new brake lines front and back. The brakes are very solid and stop the jeep quickly. I will likely upgrade them in the future as I use the jeep a little more. It looks like there are a lot of options for an upgrade.

[Moses Ludel]

Mike, the 11" x 2" drum brakes are still popular; discs are not as expensive as they once were.  Yes, you do have choices. 

If the 9" brakes are satisfactory, just beware that if you cross a stream or deeper puddle, wet 9" brakes do require drying before they work adequately. Dragging the brakes for a bit will dry them out quicker. You'll figure this out.  For now, enjoy the Jeep! 

I haven't seen the master cylinder. Is this the classic 1960-62 Chevy truck single port unit that serves both the brakes and hydraulic clutch?  Or did you go with a dual master cylinder with separate front and rear brake ports?

Moses

[Mike House]

Thanks Moses,

 

For sure drying out the drum brakes after getting them wet is critical. Normally when you exit the creek you are going up hill so you don’t think about the brakes until you get a little further down the trail! You gotta remember to dry them out right away. 
I went with a single reservoir master cylinder. 
it had no place for a brake light switch so I added a proportional valve that had a switch. I understand there is no need to adjust the valve with drums on both ends. It seems to work good for the amount I have driven it so far.