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It has taken me nearly 35 years from the moment I fell in love with the willys jeep to finally buy a project Willys and build one for myself!

 Recently while browsing craigslist I found an add for a 1950s cj3b for $1,500. The pics made it look like a minor rebuild project but of course the guy I got it from did not know much of the history of the jeep. He told me it was half 3b and half M38.....

I bought the jeep and trailered it home. 

After several weeks of soaking the cylinders I was still unable to get the F head 4 cylinder freed up. For the next few weeks I did research on an engine upgrade and settled on a late 90's GM v6 with TBI. While trying to find the right deal on an engine I stumbled across a guy selling jeep parts and turned out he had a Dauntless V6 still sitting in a 1967 CJ5. I bought the engine, flywheel and bellhousing for $400. This engine was also seized up as it had been sitting in a field for several years. 

I got the engine home and tore it down to the block. The cylinder walls were scored and worn but the block, crank and heads seemed salvable so the block, crank and head went to the machine shop. 

The body is in very rough shape. If I had the tools and shop space I would probably rebuild/repair the body. Still undecided on the path forward with the body. Other than I pulled it off and striped the frame down. 

Pulled the T90 and Dana 18 apart and found the transfer case to be in good shape but the transmission was a basket case. 

I have since rebuilt the transmission and bolted it back up to the transfer case awaiting the motor from the machine shop.

I plan to couple the Dauntless V6 to the T90. This will not be a hwy vehicle or a performance vehicle so for now I will stick with this drive train. 

I found the frame broken just behind left front spring shackle so I repaired the break and fish plated the outside of the frame. 

And that is where I am at to this point. 

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I chose this forum to document my project for a few reasons.

1. Mr. Moses Ludel seems to respond to the posts with a wealth of knowledge and great resources. I bought the Jeep cj Rebuilder's Manual as my second investment after buying the jeep! 

2. I am not restoring a jeep to its original form. It will be a hybrid of original equipment and new equipment. 

3. All of the people using this forum seem to have a genuine love for these jeeps and seem very helpful.

Thanks,

Mike 

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I pulled the tub to have a look at the frame and make repairs.

I found the frame was broken and had a pretty nasty repair job done at some point. the frame was repaired and a big bumper welded on with the frame toed in towards the passenger side about 1.5 inches. 

I cut it all out and repaired it. 

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  • Moses Ludel changed the title to 1956 Willys CJ3B Rebuild and Restoration
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You're well underway, Mike...The frame repair is more functional and a cosmetic improvement.  The T-90 looks fresh with the new cluster gear.  Fortunately, parts are still readily available for this transmission and transfer case.  

You'll be happy with the 225 V-6, plenty of power for your needs and the wheelbase/track width!  For me, a 2.5" lift would be the maximum, the CJ-3B's center-of-gravity is high with the narrow track width plus an 80-inch wheelbase.  If you do go up, make sure the aftermarket wheel rims are negative offset to widen the track width.  This can help restore the center-of-gravity, which is a handful even at stock height.  Since you're not installing wider axle assemblies, the only other remedy is negative offset wheels.

Moses

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51 minutes ago, Moses Ludel said:

 Thank you for the feedback Moses. I have no need to go any more than 2.5" on a lift. The foot print of this jeep and 31" tires will get me where I want to go! 

I will be picking up my engine from the machine shop next week and start the build up. It has been a long time since I have built an engine. I look forward to bringing this one back to life!

Mike 

 

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When I removed the water pump and timing cover I broke 3 of the small bolts holding the water pump on. Last night I removed the broken bolts and attempted to tap out the holes. When chasing the threads one of the holes that did not have a broken bolt removed I pushed the tap all the way through the thin metal at the bottom of the hole and all the way into the cavity behind the water pump. Soooooo it looks like I will purchase a replacement timing cover. It's better to know now than install the timing cover and find out later when I put water into the oil of my new engine! 

It looks like I can get a timing cover from about $90 to $150 depending on the brand. I have read a few reviews that people had trouble getting the distributor to fit properly on the new cover. I will purchase the new cover and check the fit before I put it on the engine. If it's not right I will return it. 

Mike 

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Hi Mike,

Just to consider as you're looking for a replacement timing cover....you may have read that the OEM-designed oil pumps for the 225, which are integral to the timing cover, were not particularly well reputed and tended to wear out over time.  Though at $450 it's not cheap, TA Performance makes one for the 225 which includes a high-volume, adjustable-pressure oil pump that's designed to reduce the load on the camshaft:  http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail.asp?prod=TA_1533

In addition, particularly since you're removing the old timing cover anyway, you might think about replacing the original type timing chain and gears with a double-roller set (like a Cloyes Model 9-1132 Street True Set).  Besides being yet another way to spend even more of your money on your Jeep, it provides a smoother and quieter timing chain setup.    

I have both of the above on my Dauntless and have been very pleased with them. 

Maury

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Mike, snoopy2x is right on about the demand for adequate oil volume (i.e., pressure as well).  There is a less expensive, fully functional alternative to the more expensive TA Performance pump:  The Melling "High Volume" Pump Kit for Buick V-6 and V-8 engines:  Melling Part Number K-20IPV (that's an upper case "I" letter, not a "1").  This kit uses a spacer plate that raises the oil pump end plate height to provide room for two longer oil pump gears, springs and small parts. 

This is the pump kit I used for my 231 V-6 build for the 1955 Jeep CJ-5.  (I did the same approach on our 1987 AMC/Jeep Grand Wagoneer's 360 V-8 with a Melling High Volume Pump Kit for AMC V-8s.)  The solution is ingenious;  simply extending the oil pump cavity height and providing longer gears will increase the volume of oil between the pump rotors.  Pressure can be adjusted to your needs with the choice of springs provided in the kit.

The cautionary part of this pump installation is the centering pins for the spacer plate.  The plate must index precisely on the timing cover/pump housing.  These two pin holes must be drilled correctly, which is not an insurmountable task but one that requires patience and proper alignment.  Failure to align the spacer with the timing cover gear bores will result in gear drag.

As for your timing cover issue, if there is oil pump bore wear (common for Buick and AMC engines with this kind of oil pump configuration), you might as well get a new timing cover.  Regarding the original cover, if it is a necessity or practical to repair it, I would use the Time-Sert repair method.  The thread drilling and tapping kit and stainless inserts are not cheap, but the precision tools can be reused many times. 

I never use Heli-Coil repairs on this type of project.  Here is the Time-Sert method performed on one of my critical aluminum thread projects where I saved the cost of a new motorcycle outer case:  https://www.4wdmechanix.com/how-to-time-sert-aluminum-thread-repair-and-upgrade/.  Your timing cover is similar.

If you use a Time-Sert repair, you could set the insert with a quality two-part epoxy then even epoxy a graded stud rather than bolt into the case.  The water pump gasket would actually seal around either a bolt or stud, so setting the insert with epoxy would be enough, allowing use of a removable OEM type bolt to secure the water pump. 

This comes down to whether the oil pump cavity is in good condition and the cost of a new timing cover.  Despite the hole punched through the blind hole casting of the cover, the water pump should not seep coolant if the pump gasket is a Felpro type with impregnated sealant and you use pipe/thread sealing Teflon paste (high temp automotive type) on the water pump fastener threads. 

As for snoopy2x's suggestion about a Cloyes doubler-roller timing set, that's my approach as well.  Good suggestion and safeguard that will last for the engine's normal lifespan.

Moses 

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You have both provided me with a wealth of info and options. I believe I will do a new timing cover. As for the pump options I will spend a little more time investigating the options. I have a little time to make the decision as I am not rushed to complete the engine build. I am eager to get started building it but don’t want to rush into a hasty decision just for the sake of moving forward. 
thanks again

Mike

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Understood, Mike, by all means take your time and do your homework.  This engine does need an oil pump from these photos, which is normal and on par for the age and wear.  A Melling high volume upgrade pump would be a cost effective solution.  The Melling parts will work with a stock or new aftermarket timing cover...Research it.

Moses

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Thanks for the advice. I did find the Melling high volume pump upgrade for about 100 bucks. I think I will go that route and with a new time no cover. The shop doing the machine work on my engine said he may have a timing cover in good shape. He used to do a lot of work on these Buick engines.

 

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Some parts arrived today so I changed gears from engine to front axle. 
Both hubs had play in the wheel bearings. When I took it apart I found that they were not set with a reasonable amount of preload or they backed off over time. 
to my surprise I found some good parts behind the drums! That was a plus. 
the bell crank was very sloppy, tie rod ends worn out and the passenger side had been welded. I rebuilt the bell rank with new parts and assembled the tie rods. New tie rods and new ends. I didn’t assemble it on the Jeep yet. Still trying to decide if I should open up the closed knuckle and inspect everything. It seems good and tight and the steering knuckle is smooth on the king pin bearings...... probably should open it up. 
side note two different style drums on the front axle. One inboard and one outboard. I believe the 3b came with outboard drums. 

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Hi, Mike...Looks like the LF wheel studs snapped off.  This happens likety-split (especially with air tools) when unsuspecting folks do not realize that the left side wheels and hubs on vintage Jeep, Studebaker, Ford and Chrysler vehicles are left hand thread.  Fortunately, Willys/Jeep did not use swaged wheel studs and drums.  Swaged studs require special tools (Goodson Tool Company) to replace properly.  If the hub holes are not wallowed, Willys studs can be replaced readily with an arbor or bottle jack press.

As for the brake drums, the previous owner talked about a mix of M38 and CJ3B parts.  Is that an issue here?

The wheel bearings require end play and not preload like axle differential bearings.  Specifications for adjusting the M38 or CJ-3B wheel bearings can be found in the FSM for your Jeep.  An excellent book that covers CJ-3B through early CJ-5/6 Dauntless V-6 applications is the reproduction/reprint of the 1965 factory shop manual.  Here is one (new book) source:

https://www.themotorbookstore.com/jeep-service-manual-sm-1046.html

I teethed on these manuals and have this book plus a shelf full of vintage Jeep factory parts and service manuals.  To this day, I consult these books regularly, they have each paid for themselves many times over. 

Adjusted properly with the outer lock nut torqued, a front wheel/tire (lifted safely off the ground) held at the 6/12 o'clock position should have a specific feel when adjusted properly.  After a fresh bearing pack and new seal:  "...shake of the wheel will be just perceptible and wheel will turn freely with no drag".  The adjustment steps are outlined in the manual (page 337) available at the link above...Later model vehicles use a true end play method, attaching a dial indicator to measure the precise thousandths of an inch end play while pushing and pulling the wheel hub inward and out.

Looks like you needed the bell crank kit!...You're moving along.  I see that you're using the OEM pin nut.  With the new washer in place, it appears that the nut is not turned onto the threads far enough for the pinch top to do its self-locking job.  Did the kit provide a self-locking nut with a thinner profile?

Moses

 

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Moses,

I sure appreciate your feedback and input on this forum! I did not realize that the left side had left hand threads and I broke them all off. Live and learn. I understand the need for left hand threads on semi trucks and the like but is it necessary on these jeeps?  I just went back out to the garage and looked at that locking nut. When I installed it I didn't think that there was enough thread sticking through the nut and something didn't seem right. What I found was that I left the old flat washer on the mount and put the new washer on top of it. I removed the old washer and tightened it down correctly. Looks much better now. 

As I dig deeper and deeper into this jeep I have found a lot of parts and pieces that look like they were put back together in a rush almost like the jeep was disassembled and put back together just to make it appear whole. 

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Mike...I worked at gas stations in the sixties when many of the left hand thread wheel studs were still in service.  We were cautioned to loosen carefully and look for an "L" (often on the head of the studs) at the left side of the vehicle.  I also owned four vintage Ford (pre-1948) vehicles in my early teens before joining the '55-'57 Chevy crowd.  If thread type was overlooked, snapping older studs could easily occur with a hand cross wrench.  I could see the fresh breaks at the broken studs.  Yep, live and learn. 

When replacing the studs, fortunately, Jeep aftermarket sources are the last to offer left hand threaded wheel bolts for the left side of the vehicle;  you can find them from Omix-ADA, Crown, Quadratrac, Dorman, etc.  If you're curious, here's what a pain it would be to replace studs on vehicles as new as early sixties Chrysler cars.  Goodson makes this cutter primarily for the larger numbers of early Ford vehicles that use swaged studs to cinch the brake drums to the wheel hubs.  Your studs are not swaged; they do not crimp the drum to the wheel hub:

 https://goodson.com/products/swedge-tools

Here's an excellent article and set of photos on an early Ford wheel bolt installation, quite a job, be glad you will be spared this cost and time:

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/swaging.htm 

I thought the washer stack looked high on the bellcrank pin.  Glad you had an easy fix there.  Is there a reason for the double-nut on the pinch bolt?  Can you replace these two nuts with a single Grade 8 toplock (all metal "deformed" crown) nut?  Fastenal and Hillman produce these nuts, a hardware or fastener supply should have them in stock. 

Pleased to share these tidbits and glad you were not offended by my observation about the wheel studs.  I tried to be tactful...

Moses

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Thanks Moses,

That looks like a painstaking process. Thanks for sharing the articles. When I was 16 I went to work for a small logging company on WA states Olympic Peninsula where I grew up. The owner pinched every penny and I had the opportunity to work on some very old and very unusual equipment. I did all of the tire work on the log trucks and dump trucks in the beginning and so of course left hand threads were normal for these heavy trucks. I worked for this logging company in the shop for 3 years before graduating high school and joining the Navy. So in a short 6 months I went from working on worn out old logging equipment in an old shop and in the mud and muck to maintaining multimillion dollar jet aircraft! What I have found through the years is that no matter if its a 50 year old 4wd or a brand new jet aircraft the mechanical theories and principles are the same. 

I have spent most of my career as a mechanic and millwright. Now I manage a sawmill in GA for one of the largest sawmill companies in the world. https://interfor.com/

We are in the middle of upgrading a 1973 southern yellow pine sawmill to a state of the art sawmill. In all the investment will be around $100 million. We will finish phase one in the next few weeks. Most of the folks in my maintenance department have been working on the old iron in a reactive mode. Getting them switched to proactive maintenance may prove to be a challenge. Even though it is all new it still requires maintenance every  day.  

Any how. The double nut. Yes I will get a lock nut to replace the double nut. It seemed odd that the kit came with a nut and flat washer and no lock nut or lock washer. I spun it on there because it seemed odd that there was not lock nut.  

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Mike...Ah, more things in common!  Though northern Nevada has been home the majority of my life, we spent five years at the Eugene-Springfield-Oakridge Area while I attended U of O.  We returned later for a four-year stint, and I completed the Jeep Owner's Bible, Ford F-Series Pickup Owner's Bible and the Chevrolet & GMC Light Truck Owner's Bible (Bentley Publishers) at Oakridge.  I continued writing columns and tech features regularly for magazines plus a weekly column for the Portland Oregonian.

A close friend (Kirk Rogers) from Oakridge retired recently from a career that began during his high school senior year at Pope & Talbot (Oakridge).  He went "off the hill" to Georgia Pacific (Springfield), then finished as a millright and superintendent for Cascade Pacific Pulp at Halsey.  They did a $15M renovation just prior to his retirement.  Great background in each of your cases.

What the three of us share in common is preventive maintenance.  My earliest years as a professional wrench were spent as a light- and medium-duty truck fleet mechanic working at the engineering department of a large general hospital.  We had resources, my supervisor was quality oriented, and I was able to do by-the-book work, which suited me well.  Stakes were high, and my goal was zero breakdowns with a fleet of 22 service vehicles.  Preventive maintenance is the only way to achieve these goals, work must be done properly...I've been at this professionally for 52 years, and to this day, knock on wood, at the personal level we have never been stranded alongside a road or in need of road service.  I can see that your work environment is high stakes, too, a hugely responsible job and career!

So, let's be academic and textbook with this CJ-3B.  A single nut is sufficient on the bellcrank pinch bolt.  The pin is clamped with the split casting, which provides some degree of tension.  A self-locking, all steel nut will suffice.  I'm not a fan of nyloc nuts, perhaps you have a different opinion from your jet aircraft background.  Nylon fasteners deteriorate from atmospheric stresses, high heat, load stresses and chemical reactions. 

I'm okay with the older Willys slotted tension nuts like your bellcrank pin uses, though this nut design is now a specialty and more difficult to source.  In modern hardware, I like the high-grade, deformed head (toplock) nuts;  they hold torque settings well and remain resistant to loosening through their service life.  You work with high-end machinery and vibration. What are your thoughts?

Moses

 

 

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Thanks Moses,

That looks like a painstaking process. Thanks for sharing the articles. When I was 16 I went to work for a small logging company on WA states Olympic Peninsula where I grew up. The owner pinched every penny and I had the opportunity to work on some very old and very unusual equipment. I did all of the tire work on the log trucks and dump trucks in the beginning and so of course left hand threads were normal for these heavy trucks. I worked for this logging company in the shop for 3 years before graduating high school and joining the Navy. So in a short 6 months I went from working on worn out old logging equipment in an old shop and in the mud and muck to maintaining multimillion dollar jet aircraft! What I have found through the years is that no matter if its a 50 year old 4wd or a brand new jet aircraft the mechanical theories and principles are the same. 

I have spent most of my career as a mechanic and millwright. Now I manage a sawmill in GA for one of the largest sawmill companies in the world. https://interfor.com/

We are in the middle of upgrading a 1973 southern yellow pine sawmill to a state of the art sawmill. In all the investment will be around $100 million. Most of the folks in my maintenance department have been working on the old iron in a reactive mode. Getting them switched to proactive maintenance may prove to be a challenge. Even though it is all new it still requires maintenance every  day.  

Any how. The double nut. Yes I will get a lock nut to replace the double nut. It seemed odd that the kit came with a nut and flat washer and no lock nut or lock washer. I spun it on there because it seemed odd that there was not lock nut.  

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12 hours ago, Moses Ludel said:

Mike...Ah, more things in common!  Though northern Nevada has been home the majority of my life, we spent five years at the Eugene-Springfield-Oakridge Area while I attended U of O.  We returned later for a four-year stint, and I completed the Jeep Owner's Bible, Ford F-Series Pickup Owner's Bible and the Chevrolet & GMC Light Truck Owner's Bible (Bentley Publishers) at Oakridge.  I continued writing columns and tech features regularly for magazines plus a weekly column for the Portland Oregonian.

A close friend (Kirk Rogers) from Oakridge retired recently from a career that began during his high school senior year at Pope & Talbot (Oakridge).  He went "off the hill" to Georgia Pacific (Springfield), then finished as a millright and superintendent for Cascade Pacific Pulp at Halsey.  They did a $15M renovation just prior to his retirement.  Great background in each of your cases.

What the three of us share in common is preventive maintenance.  My earliest years as a professional wrench were spent as a light- and medium-duty truck fleet mechanic working at the engineering department of a large general hospital.  We had resources, my supervisor was quality oriented, and I was able to do by-the-book work, which suited me well.  Stakes were high, and my goal was zero breakdowns with a fleet of 22 service vehicles.  Preventive maintenance is the only way to achieve these goals, work must be done properly...I've been at this professionally for 52 years, and to this day, knock on wood, at the personal level we have never been stranded alongside a road or in need of road service.  I can see that your work environment is high stakes, too, a hugely responsible job and career!

So, let's be academic and textbook with this CJ-3B.  A single nut is sufficient on the bellcrank pinch bolt.  The pin is clamped with the split casting, which provides some degree of tension.  A self-locking, all steel nut will suffice.  I'm not a fan of nyloc nuts, perhaps you have a different opinion from your jet aircraft background.  Nylon fasteners deteriorate from atmospheric stresses, high heat, load stresses and chemical reactions. 

I'm okay with the older Willys slotted tension nuts like your bellcrank pin uses, though this nut design is now a specialty and more difficult to source.  In modern hardware, I like the high-grade, deformed head (toplock) nuts;  they hold torque settings well and remain resistant to loosening through their service life.  You work with high-end machinery and vibration. What are your thoughts?

Moses

 

 

Moses it is a small world after all. I do love and miss the Pacific Northwest but middle Georgia is where my career has taken me for the time being. I have a sister in Eugene and a brother in Florence OR out on the coast.

You have had an amazing career and sounds like there is more in store for you with the video projects. It is a great sense of accomplishment to know that the equipment you maintain is out there rolling up and down the road every day.  I worked with some folks back in WA that had worked for Pope in OR many years back. I have been in the sawmills now for 20 years. the first 5 in maintenance and the last 15 in management. The industry has changed significantly in 20 years. I often talk to my crews about how sawing lumber hasn't changed in hundreds of years. Trees are still fat at the bottom and skinny at the top and we are sawing them into square edged dimensions! What has changed is the technology and expectation to get more lumber from every log. Our industry like many others has found it extremely difficult to source and hire for the skilled trades. Mechanics, millwrights, electricians and welders. Young people lost interest some time ago and our industries are suffering as a result. Interfor has developed an apprenticeship program that is recognized by the Department of Labor and is administered and certified through the Northern Alberta Institute of Technology or NAIT. I represent Interfor's South region as a member of the "steering committee" for this program.  Our apprentices spend three years learning the trade through hands on training, classroom work. At the end of the program the apprentices that complete the program successfully earn a journeyman millwright card recognized by the DOL. The program is completely free to the students and they have not obligation to stay with Interfor when they complete the program. It is our hope that if we treat them right they will choose to stay with us. It is a great program yet I am still surprised at the lack of interest from our crews. The program is open to all employees not only maintenance crews. We normally start off with a lot of interest but when they find out that they will have to work hard for this privilege most lose interest. Still we consider the program to be a success. We have graduated our first class this year with roughly 75% of the original students completing the program.

Lock nuts.... In my experience the nylock nuts are best used in applications where they will be removed for maintenance in 6-12 months. As you stated they do not hold up to heat and vibrations well. They also tend to be taller than a top lock nut so if space is a constraint they may be an issue.  We did use them on jet aircraft in the Navy but not on any of the powerplant or structural stuff. They were often used with clamps on electrical harnesses under the skin of the fuselage. 

In the sawmill we will use them in low impact applications and areas that our maintenance guys can do their dynamic PMs while the equipment is running and they can see it. This flange bearing is a good example. Here is something interesting. That flange bearing is one of 8 on a set of planer outfeed belts. We purchased them from a vendor as complete units ready to drop in and hook up as part of the project. Of the 8 bearings only one bearing had the locking collar tab locked in place on the nut. The others did not have any of the tabs locked into the nut. It is those small details that will keep your equipment running at maximum up time. 

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Some parts arrived today so I changed gears from engine to front axle. 
Both hubs had play in the wheel bearings. When I took it apart I found that they were not set with a reasonable amount of preload or they backed off over time. 
to my surprise I found some good parts behind the drums! That was a plus. 
the bell crank was very sloppy, tie rod ends worn out and the passenger side had been welded. I rebuilt the bell rank with new parts and assembled the tie rods. New tie rods and new ends. I didn’t assemble it on the Jeep yet. Still trying to decide if I should open up the closed knuckle and inspect everything. It seems good and tight and the steering knuckle is smooth on the king pin bearings...... probably should open it up. 
side note two different style drums on the front axle. One inboard and one outboard. I believe the 3b came with outboard drums. 

CF15F75B-276B-4865-B186-A93B88097AD1.jpeg

47E9AE5A-3F3B-4045-89E7-E3D5C25DE958.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Mike House said:

Mike...See my comments below...

Moses it is a small world after all. I do love and miss the Pacific Northwest but middle Georgia is where my career has taken me for the time being. I have a sister in Eugene and a brother in Florence OR out on the coast.

While attending the U of O (graduated 1980) and living at married student housing, we would go to Florence on our shoestring family budget.  I learned to steelhead fish on Lake Creek and the Siuslaw River.  Wonderful part of the Oregon Coast.  When we lived at Oakridge (1990-94), our local 4x4 club volunteered for Lane County Sheriffs Search and Rescue, and we dispatched from the coast to the crest of the Willamette National Forest and Waldo Lake.

You have had an amazing career and sounds like there is more in store for you with the video projects. It is a great sense of accomplishment to know that the equipment you maintain is out there rolling up and down the road every day.  I worked with some folks back in WA that had worked for Pope in OR many years back. I have been in the sawmills now for 20 years. the first 5 in maintenance and the last 15 in management. The industry has changed significantly in 20 years. I often talk to my crews about how sawing lumber hasn't changed in hundreds of years. Trees are still fat at the bottom and skinny at the top and we are sawing them into square edged dimensions! What has changed is the technology and expectation to get more lumber from every log. Our industry like many others has found it extremely difficult to source and hire for the skilled trades. Mechanics, millwrights, electricians and welders. Young people lost interest some time ago and our industries are suffering as a result. Interfor has developed an apprenticeship program that is recognized by the Department of Labor and is administered and certified through the Northern Alberta Institute of Technology or NAIT. I represent Interfor's South region as a member of the "steering committee" for this program.  Our apprentices spend three years learning the trade through hands on training, classroom work. At the end of the program the apprentices that complete the program successfully earn a journeyman millwright card recognized by the DOL. The program is completely free to the students and they have not obligation to stay with Interfor when they complete the program. It is our hope that if we treat them right they will choose to stay with us. It is a great program yet I am still surprised at the lack of interest from our crews. The program is open to all employees not only maintenance crews. We normally start off with a lot of interest but when they find out that they will have to work hard for this privilege most lose interest. Still we consider the program to be a success. We have graduated our first class this year with roughly 75% of the original students completing the program.

Your training program is really exciting, especially the DOL certification and high rate of completion!  When I graduated from U of O, we moved to San Diego County.  I taught automotive and welding for a stint at the San Diego Job Corps and got the bug to work with young adults.  Years later, after a successful career at journalism, authoring best-selling books, consulting to OEM vehicle manufacturers and all that, a local friend at Yerington, Nevada asked if I would substitute teach for a few days at the Rite of Passage program.  I instructed Automotive/Diesel Technology and Welding and wound up accepting a contract (1999-2004) for a five-year hiatus from writing.  Within a year, I was site supervisor of education and director of vocational training over four Rite of Passage facilities.  Our Silver State Academy on Native American property was chartered under El Dorado County (California) Office of Education.  Students were economically disadvantaged and mostly court adjudicated/incarcerated (typically tough, often gang affiliated young men from California, Colorado, Utah, Nevada, Indiana, Arizona and Oregon).  They needed high school, and we had an average of 14 months to bootstrap a student to a diploma and vocational training.  I oversaw vocational training and developed trade curriculum.  My role included a chair on the Tech Prep board at Western Nevada College, working with Carl Perkins Grants and administering our sites' VICA participation.  At welding, we got I-CAR and basic AWS certification for many students and turned out proficient TIG weldors able to graduate and advance to OJT at a Carson City aircraft turbine rebuilding facility.  There were many success stories...The singularly most challenging and rewarding work stint of my adult life was the five years with Rite of Passage! 

Lock nuts.... In my experience the nylock nuts are best used in applications where they will be removed for maintenance in 6-12 months. As you stated they do not hold up to heat and vibrations well. They also tend to be taller than a top lock nut so if space is a constraint they may be an issue.  We did use them on jet aircraft in the Navy but not on any of the powerplant or structural stuff. They were often used with clamps on electrical harnesses under the skin of the fuselage.

My thought, too.  Periodic replacement makes sense.  I was curious because the postwar era use of Nylock "aircraft nuts" was universal and popularized, touted as the end all.  I prefer anodized toplock, all-steel fasteners, Grade 5 or 8 per requirements. 

In the sawmill we will use them in low impact applications and areas that our maintenance guys can do their dynamic PMs while the equipment is running and they can see it. This flange bearing is a good example. Here is something interesting. That flange bearing is one of 8 on a set of planer outfeed belts. We purchased them from a vendor as complete units ready to drop in and hook up as part of the project. Of the 8 bearings only one bearing had the locking collar tab locked in place on the nut. The others did not have any of the tabs locked into the nut. It is those small details that will keep your equipment running at maximum up time. 

Agreed!  Preventive measures make the difference...a winning strategy!

Moses

 

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Mike, aren't the Jeep vintage vehicles great for repro parts!  The rear bumper will work well, amazing that the market is still supported at this level.

As for the unused lock tab on the bearing, that's on par.  Our neighbor up the block has a JK Wrangler Unlimited built to the nines for the Rubicon Trail and hardcore wheeling.  He has aftermarket Dana 60 front and rear axles that cost a small fortune.  The manufacturer (name withheld to prevent a pissing match), went off on its own tangent with the full-floating front hub bearing arrangement.  The design, two nuts without a key way-indexed thrust washer placed between the inner nut and the outer wheel bearingguaranteed that the nuts would work loose at some point.  They did. 

At the left side of the vehicle, the right hand thread nuts and thin tin lock plate came loose.  There was no stack height on the stubby aftermarket spindles to install thrust washers.

I am a stickler for OEM engineering as a baseline.  There is a Ford OEM application prototype (F450 live full-floating front axle) that offers the correct thrust washer, nuts and lock tab sequencing.  Unfortunately, the aftermarket manufacturer decided that off-roaders would like a stubby spindle with no stick-out like a stock Ford spindle and hub;  this meant no room for an OEM type key way indexed thrust washer, an inner adjuster nut, a lock plate and an outer lock nut.  Two nuts jammed against each other with no inner thrust washer does not work when the weight of a vehicle pushes the hub bearings outward, directly against the inner nut.  The left side nuts (right hand thread) and flimsy lock plate came loose.

Many companies are more concerned about product liability insurance than proper engineering.  The owner shared the issue with the manufacturer, this was clearly a safety issue, and the concern fell on deaf ears.  If I wanted Dana 60 axles under a Jeep, my first stop would be a recycling yard for Ford F350/F450 prototype beam axles.  Cut and relocate the spring perches.  Save $5000 per axle.

Moses

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On 6/22/2020 at 8:30 AM, Moses Ludel said:

 

Ahhhh chasing the elusive steelhead! One of the rivers I grew up on had a very strong winter run of 100% native steelhead. When I was younger you could fish it for these natives but now it is closed for steelhead. The rivers out on the peninsula still generate very strong steelhead runs although most of them are hatchery fish now. 

You have been a very busy guy and sounds like in addition to your career you have given back to the community in a significant way. I was born in Oceanside CA which is in Orange county and than we moved to WA state in 1975. 

Looking back on my career in maintenance two jobs stand out to me as my top one and two.

In the Navy along with being an aviation structural mechanic I was a flight deck troubleshooter. Normally the top guys from each of the discipline were chosen to be flight deck troubleshooters. As flight deck trouble shooters we were responsible for performing pre-flight inspections on the jets as they taxied up to the catapult to get launched. We walked along the side of the jet and were positioned just under and outboard of the wing. The catapult would get hooked up to the nose landing gear, the jet would go to "full military power" the pilot would cycle all of his flight controls as we checked for issues, once we gave a thumbs up the steam piston went to full power and the catapult would drag the jet off of the deck. This process was repeated over and over for 12-16 hours a day depending on where we were operating. It was an adrenaline rush all day! 

The other would be the time I spent working in Alaska as a field mechanic for a logging company on the remote island of Afognak. I loved the work and loved the environment even more! I would leave the camp every morning about 6am and drive my shop truck to one of the logging sites. I would have a project to work on all day and support logging crews and their equipment if they had any issues come up. I would service the equipment at the end of the day and head back towards camp. With very long days in the summer I would usually stop and fish on my way home. When the silver salmon were running it would not be unusual to stop at a creek on the way to camp and pull a half dozen fish for the freezer or smoker!  I love it in Alaska! May be time to head back at least for a vacation!

 

I am not sure if I will ever build something that would call for a Dana 60 but... if I did I will note your comments above. 

As I work on this willys and source parts I am very pleased to find the availability and price point on these parts! It definitely makes the process more fun keeps the project moving along! 

 

 

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Some parts arrived today so I changed gears from engine to front axle. 
Both hubs had play in the wheel bearings. When I took it apart I found that they were not set with a reasonable amount of preload or they backed off over time. 
to my surprise I found some good parts behind the drums! That was a plus. 
the bell crank was very sloppy, tie rod ends worn out and the passenger side had been welded. I rebuilt the bell rank with new parts and assembled the tie rods. New tie rods and new ends. I didn’t assemble it on the Jeep yet. Still trying to decide if I should open up the closed knuckle and inspect everything. It seems good and tight and the steering knuckle is smooth on the king pin bearings...... probably should open it up. 
side note two different style drums on the front axle. One inboard and one outboard. I believe the 3b came with outboard drums. 

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I may have jumped the gun on the hubs and drums here. After researching what should be on the 3b, measuring the two hubs comparing them I decided to order a new drum and drill tap holes in the one hub to facilitate the drum? 
many thoughts?

 

thanks,

Mike

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Understood...I have a daughter and her daughter, my granddaughter, who carry on the tradition!  Great values to instill, especially a work ethic and appreciation for the outdoors and self-sufficiency...The best gift for a daughter—or son!  Our three boys know this lifestyle, too. 

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Thanks!

Good work space definitely helps! It’s in the 90s here now and I am not spending as much time in the shop as I would like!

I have me engine block crank and pistons back from the machine shop and waiting for the heads. I have a few more parts to buy before I start the engine rebuild! 
plus an adapter and clutch to purchase! 
 

Mike

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Mike...We've been hitting the high 90s/100, but this is the classic "dry climate", less intensive than your neighborhood...I did a lengthy video on manual tire changing, picked a nice 95-degree F day to demonstrate wrestling with 10-ply/LRE tires and big tire irons on a tiny changer.  Proved it could be done—for what that's worth.  Had to edit out the mature audience language from the video clips...Roasted my butt off, you can see the sweat dripping onto the wheels as I tug and pull irons.  Interesting segment is the fabrication/modification I made to the manual tire changer, made a 2"-square receiver adaption, turned the machine into a trail or moto pit portable tire service unit:  https://www.4wdmechanix.com/change-tires-at-your-shop-or-a-remote-site/.

Moses

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Hey Moses! Awesome video and a really cool tool you have there! I have spent my share of time wrestling tires! Fortunately it was when I was younger and less wise! Hahaha now I can look back and say I have paid my dues! Tires are a lot of work!

It looks like you lost some serious fluids making that video! That tool should be sold with a cooler of ice cold beverages! 
thanks for sharing!

 

Mike

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Thanks, Mike...The remote tire changer idea worked...surprisingly stable, some incidental flex with the big tires, but the beam remains resistant to force.  Key was 0.250" wall on the 2-inch tube.  The remote use was the best "takeaway".  This machine is ideal for Honda Civic, Prius and motorcycle tires.  The adapter for moto wheels is high quality.

I'm looking forward to receiving a semi-automatic tire changer at the end of August.  There's a 20-30 minute video pending around that machine, a great sequel to the sweat and wrestling of a human-power tire changer and pair of Ken-Tool tire irons.  To be continued!

Moses

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Update:  Tire changer coming from within the U.S. and will be here within a week...Expect some video clips thereafter...I'm excited and see this as a sensible investment despite the front end expenditure. 

Our youngest (eight years old) grandson sold his grandmother on the deal.  He did a count of our rolling stock tires on the property:  23 automotive/4x4 and trailer tires plus six dirt/dual sport motorcycle tires.  29 "perishable" tires will help amortize the in-house tire shop's start-up costs over time.

Of course, with his reasoning ability, Grandson Camden will be rewarded.  Money saved by DIY tire changing and balancing can go toward his college education.

Moses 

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  • 6 months later...

Ok, well it has been a busy fall and winter. I wish I could say I have been hard at work rebuilding the 3b. I haven't made any progress on the actual rebuild but I have been stock piling new parts. The block, crank, pistons, rods, cam etc are all back from the machine shop and still in the corner of the kitchen. I don't dare put hem outside in this Middle GA humidity. I would be right back to a rusty pile of mystery parts. I have purchased a new timing cover, water pump, distributor, some universal motor mounts and a handful of new tools that I did not have to complete the rebuild. I don't want to complete the rebuild until I am ready to set the engine in the frame and fire it up. I would rather do that and not rebuild it and let it set in the garage. I still need to purchase an adapter for the T-90 and a clutch. I plan to have the engine in and running by mid May. 

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Things that I have been doing instead of working on the 3b. My son came down in October from WA state where he and his family live. Together we spent a week filling up two freezers with white tail deer and wild hog meat!

I traded the 06 Ram in last fall so I opted for the Gladiator! I love this rig! I always wanted a Scrambler but it was never in the cards back in the day. When Jeep came out with the Gladiator I had my eye set on one right away! 

 

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I do have a question for anyone on the forum with some good info!

Q- So what would be the best option for cooling the Dauntless? I have the radiator that was in the 3b when it had the 4cyl in it. Not sure what kind of shape it is in. I was considering buying a radiator that came in the 1967 cj5 with the V6 to match the engine I am rebuilding. Again this jeep isn't going to be a performance rig or a parade rig. Just fun to cruise around in and maybe go to the woods hunting! 

Any feed back is great thanks!

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Hi, Mike...Glad your busy and healthy, the hunt with your son sounds great.  Lots of meat!  Your new Gladiator has a nice profile.  Looks like a moderate lift?  What size tires?

Regarding the 3B radiator, you should not have a height issue with a Kaiser-era CJ-5/6 V-6 radiator and your 3B engine bay/front clip.  I would also consider one of the aftermarket radiators sold by dimensions.  Summit Racing and others have these radiators. 

eBay is full of vintage Jeep replacement radiators, many 3-row aluminum.  There appears to be extensive early Jeep model interchangeability.  Compare dimensions, though.  If you can use a CJ-5 V-6 radiator, some minor fabricating to adapt the side brackets should not be a challenge.

The contemporary, best core if you do a re-core of your flat fender 3B radiator would be "dimple tube" core.  A 3-row dimple tube with the correct GPM flow rating for the V-6 BTUs would do it.  Horsepower equals BTUs.  (A rule of thumb is 45 BTUs per horsepower, which doesn't mean much unless you increase the power output of the 225 Dauntless.)  I would rely on flow charts available to radiator shops and likely now online.  Determine the OEM flow rate and match or, optimally, exceed that flow rating. 

The rest is fan cooling and a shroud.  I'm a proponent of a mechanical, engine driven fan.  A stock 225 V-6 fan works, a flexible fan if you want less power drain and steady air flow at higher rpm.  A fan clutch makes sense if you want less noise.  I always install a shroud, sometimes requiring additional fabrication.  Position the fan and shroud properly.

Moses

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Thanks Moses,

There are many things I miss about living out west but of all of them spending time with my son and his family tops the list. 

The Gladiator is a 2020 model. I went as base as possible. I even have hand crank windows! I put a 3.5" lift on it and 37x12.5 tires. They fit and look good in my opinion. I may need to look at re-gearing the differentials. I did not lose much power for daily driving but when I tow my side by side on the trailer it is a dog. 

Thanks for the feedback on the cooling system. I believe adapting the Cj5 radiator should be pretty straight forward. 

Next is the fuel system. I have decided to stick with the Rochester 2GC. I have found several options on line. Looks like a guy could spend anywhere from $90 on Amazon to $4 $5 $6 hundred from others. One example is below. 

At first I had given up on the carb that I had. It was rusty and the throttle shaft was seized up. I let it sit with penetrating oil on it and worked it back and forth until it freed up.  I talked to a guy at a carb shop in Atlanta and my plan now is to send it to him and let him evaluate it and give me a quote. Either way it looks like lots of options. 

Thanks for the help!

Mike 

 

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On 2/7/2021 at 8:49 AM, Mike House said:

Things that I have been doing instead of working on the 3b. My son came down in October from WA state where he and his family live. Together we spent a week filling up two freezers with white tail deer and wild hog meat!

I traded the 06 Ram in last fall so I opted for the Gladiator! I love this rig! I always wanted a Scrambler but it was never in the cards back in the day. When Jeep came out with the Gladiator I had my eye set on one right away! 

 

Gladiator.jpg.2ca20271d062ebb1474784fc7f775b38.jpg

Nice rig!

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Mike...You can calibrate the speedometer or change the axle gearing...I usually change the gearing with the 37"x12.5" tire size.  What is stock gearing for the Gladiator?

As for the 225 carburetor, I personally like the 2GC, very dependable, simple to rebuild.  The reprint Jeep FSM for the Dauntless 225 V-6 era CJs provides all the data on that 2GC if you need to confirm authenticity, right down to rod and jet sizes, bore size, etc.  If authentic and rebuildable, keep it.  We ran those carburetors for years without a hitch, very forgiving on the trail, not like a Holley.

Moses

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I’m getting excited to build this engine and get it in the 3b. 
Any feedback on using a set of inside and outside micrometers to measure the crank and rods for bearing clearances VS using plastigauge? I have never used the plastigauge and it seems like a bit of a pain doing the rods on the crank with the crank torqued into the block.....

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Mike...I'd run 4.10 or 4.56 gears with the 37"x12.5" tires.  I have 4.56s in the Ram 3500 with 37"x12.5".  The Cummins engine is spinning a bit faster than I'd like at 70-up mph, fuel mileage suffers.  For a Pentastar 3.6L V-6 gasoline engine, however, the engine speed would be decent.  I'll likely change to 4.10s before this is through.  You might be happier with 4.56:1 considering the JT's weight and any plans to tow.

Check out an rpm calculator and consider your overdrive ratio.  Note the torque peak for your engine.  I like to see the diesel engine near torque peak at normal interstate cruise speeds (70 mph) in overdrive.  In your case, see what ratio would match up the engine rpm to the rpm with stock tires and 3.73 gears.

Your comment about mic versus Plastigage:  I use both.  The outside mic is reliable for the journal sizes and checking for any out-of-round.  The Plastigage confirms that the torque'd rod cap and big end are okay/round with the bearing "crushed" in place.  Plastigage is the only reliable test of oil clearance.  Nice backup.

Understand your desire to get the 3B running!  Keep us posted...

Moses  

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  • 1 month later...

Back to work on the 3b today. I now have everything to build my engine. Today I checked oil clearances on the rods and mains. Plastigauge has me at just about .002” on all the rods and the mains. I was not looking forward to checking rod clearances after the crank was in the block. I strapped it down to the bench and it was not bad at all. 
It was a productive day. Crank is in. All pistons are in. Everything rotates as it should and end play on the crank is good. I checked the ring gap on one ring from each piston in their respective cylinder. 
I may set the heads on tomorrow. 

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Very thorough and fun to see at this stage, Mike!  Your oil clearances look quite good.  Rods, pistons and bearings, too...You did make good progress...Must have been your helper!  The book, too...

Exciting to see a "big bore" V-6 with iron block and heads.  Engines are non-descript today.  The 225 Dauntless has character!

Are you using the Melling high volume oil pump conversion (spacer plate with longer gears)?  Regardless, be sure to pack the oil pump cavity with fresh petroleum jelly to create pressure and suction at first cranking. 

Prime the oil system as an additional safeguard.  (A priming tool and drill will work.  I use a Goodson Tool pressure tank ($$$$), but for a one-time or occasional build, a 1/2-inch drill motor (even a 3/8" drill though I like the torque and speed control with a 1/2" drill) with a priming tool from Summit Racing/Equipment, Jeg's or Amazon will suffice.  Petroleum jelly and the priming tool with fresh oil in the crankcase works fine.  You will pick up pressure quickly and avoid risk of a dry start.  Do not prime until after the long block, heads, lifters, pushrods, rocker shafts and rocker arms are in place and fully assembled!  Watch for oil at the rocker arms.

https://www.amazon.com/OEMTOOLS-27060-Oil-Pump-Primer/dp/B004FEPD72  [For "GM V-6" not sure whether this includes the 225 and 3.8L Buick or just a 4.3L Chevy V-6.  Be sure to get the correct priming tool for your 225.  Poking around online, I found several sources that say a small-block Chevy tool like this one will work.]

Thanks for sharing the photos...!

Moses

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Thanks Moses. 

I am happy that I went with this engine for the project. Looks like the machine shop did a good job with all of the machine work. I had not planned on using the high volume pump but now that I am so deep into the motor and have so much $ invested in it I believe I will. 

I think a guy I work with has a GM priming tool for a drill. If not  will pick one up for sure. It looks like I need to replace the disributor drive gear on the cam. It has one damaged tooth. I think I will also replace the piece that drives the fuel pump. it looks like it is a little flakey. 

I put the cam in today and the timing set. 

I ran into something that seemed not quit right on the head gaskets. I went ahead and put the heads on also I hope I didn't make a mistake with the gasket.

I had set the gasket on the block to check for fit and alignment and I notice that there is not much of a hole for two of the (what looks like to me) water journals. The hole in the block is about 5/8" but the hole in the gasket is only about 1/8". Is that ok? It just doesn't seem right.  

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Yep, Mike, you need a distributor gear.  What did the cylinder head ports look like that align with the coolant ports in the block?  Are the head passageways smaller, more like the FelPro gasket's holes?  The gasket set fits a 225 and not a 3.8L/231, right?  Or does it fit both?

Did you take photos of the cylinder head faces?  Can you recall the head coolant port sizes?

The project is unfolding very well, Mike!

Moses

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You know of all the pictures I have been taking I did not take a picture of the face of the heads..... I don't recall what they looked like. I did go on line and look at gaskets sets for the 225 and every images I looked at the gaskets were configured with the small hole just like the ones in the pics that I installed. I will do a little more digging around about the head gasket. I am going to be waiting on parts now for a little bit so no big deal. I can't assemble the timing cover and water pump until I get the distributor gear. Perfect timing I suppose. It's back to work tomorrow.

Mike 

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How about that cam lob wear where the fuel pump actuator rides? I wonder how much wear I can have there? A new one at TA Performance is about $80 and I am going to be buying a distributor drive gear and oil slinger there also....

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Practical question, Mike...This all depends upon the amount of fuel pump stroke.  If stroke is enough with the lobe in this condition, you will have adequate fuel pump volume.  Do a trial fit of the pump to see how much the plunger arm depresses as the pump moves into position.

Send a photo of the pump cam if you're concerned...We can estimate the wear involved here.

Moses 

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Mike...You may be okay on the head gaskets but do confirm.  It is not uncommon for the head gaskets to be restrictors to distributor coolant in a specific way.  Verify that the gasket set is for a 225 of your engine's vintage.  Do you have the old head gaskets to compare?

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Mike...Yes, $80 is a bit pricy!  Can you find an NOS (new old stock) Buick or Jeep 225 eccentric?  Check eBay.  Finding this kind of part as NOS is always about timing.  Look into the interchange of the part number.  There may be Buick V-8s that also use this eccentric cam, likely the 300 and 340, maybe other GM engines as well.  Start with a Buick 225 V-6 OEM part number.

Check Dorman or Pioneer as a possibility, the application is long in the tooth but may be available if there is broader use of the part.  AMC V-8s use a similar arrangement, though you would definitely need to confirm the fit.

Moses  

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On 6/17/2020 at 4:26 PM, Moses Ludel said:

Mike, snoopy2x is right on about the demand for adequate oil volume (i.e., pressure as well).  There is a less expensive, fully functional alternative to the more expensive TA Performance pump:  The Melling "High Volume" Pump Kit for Buick V-6 and V-8 engines:  Melling Part Number K-20IPV (that's an upper case "I" letter, not a "1").  This kit uses a spacer plate that raises the oil pump end plate height to provide room for two longer oil pump gears, springs and small parts. 

This is the pump kit I used for my 231 V-6 build for the 1955 Jeep CJ-5.  (I did the same approach on our 1987 AMC/Jeep Grand Wagoneer's 360 V-8 with a Melling High Volume Pump Kit for AMC V-8s.)  The solution is ingenious;  simply extending the oil pump cavity height and providing longer gears will increase the volume of oil between the pump rotors.  Pressure can be adjusted to your needs with the choice of springs provided in the kit.

The cautionary part of this pump installation is the centering pins for the spacer plate.  The plate must index precisely on the timing cover/pump housing.  These two pin holes must be drilled correctly, which is not an insurmountable task but one that requires patience and proper alignment.  Failure to align the spacer with the timing cover gear bores will result in gear drag.

As for your timing cover issue, if there is oil pump bore wear (common for Buick and AMC engines with this kind of oil pump configuration), you might as well get a new timing cover.  Regarding the original cover, if it is a necessity or practical to repair it, I would use the Time-Sert repair method.  The thread drilling and tapping kit and stainless inserts are not cheap, but the precision tools can be reused many times. 

I never use Heli-Coil repairs on this type of project.  Here is the Time-Sert method performed on one of my critical aluminum thread projects where I saved the cost of a new motorcycle outer case:  https://www.4wdmechanix.com/how-to-time-sert-aluminum-thread-repair-and-upgrade/.  Your timing cover is similar.

If you use a Time-Sert repair, you could set the insert with a quality two-part epoxy then even epoxy a graded stud rather than bolt into the case.  The water pump gasket would actually seal around either a bolt or stud, so setting the insert with epoxy would be enough, allowing use of a removable OEM type bolt to secure the water pump. 

This comes down to whether the oil pump cavity is in good condition and the cost of a new timing cover.  Despite the hole punched through the blind hole casting of the cover, the water pump should not seep coolant if the pump gasket is a Felpro type with impregnated sealant and you use pipe/thread sealing Teflon paste (high temp automotive type) on the water pump fastener threads. 

As for snoopy2x's suggestion about a Cloyes doubler-roller timing set, that's my approach as well.  Good suggestion and safeguard that will last for the engine's normal lifespan.

Moses 

Moses, above you stated oil pressure can be adjusted using the springs based on your needs. Or something like that. My question is how do I know what my needs are???

I did purchase the Melling high volume pump kit for this rebuild. How do I determine what pressure spring I should use? Is more better? My oil clearances on the rods and main bearing are all right at .002”. 
I think 70lbs was the highest pressure spring available. 
any thoughts?

Thanks for all the help.

Mike

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Mike, "normal" oil pressure for the Dauntless V-6 was 33 psi at 2,400 rpm.  70 psi is way too high and could even lead to spinning a bearing.  I would use the spring that delivers around 40-45 psi at the 2,400 rpm with the engine fully warmed.  If Melling indicates the pressure range for each spring, use that guideline.  At least step down from the 70 psi spring.  The goal with the Melling "high volume" pump is just that:  reasonable pressure with more available volume.

You're not running this engine with racing bearing clearances intended for straight 50 wt. oil.  You will likely be running a modern multi-vis oil, using ambient temperature as your guide:  10W-40 weight after break-in during warmer weather, maybe 5W-30 in cold start-up winters.  5W-30 would also be a good break-in viscosity if the engine seals well.

Moses

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9 hours ago, Moses Ludel said:

Mike, "normal" oil pressure for the Dauntless V-6 was 33 psi at 2,400 rpm.  70 psi is way too high and could even lead to spinning a bearing.  I would use the spring that delivers around 40-45 psi at the 2,400 rpm with the engine fully warmed.  If Melling indicates the pressure range for each spring, use that guideline.  At least step down from the 70 psi spring.  The goal with the Melling "high volume" pump is just that:  reasonable pressure with more available volume.

You're not running this engine with racing bearing clearances intended for straight 50 wt. oil.  You will likely be running a modern multi-vis oil, using ambient temperature as your guide:  10W-40 weight after break-in during warmer weather, maybe 5W-30 in cold start-up winters.  5W-30 would also be a good break-in viscosity if the engine seals well.

Moses

Ok got it. The instructions with the kit does indicate the pressure range for each of the springs. I will get the right one in there! We don't need any trouble with oil or bearings considering all the work that has gone into this engine. Getting a lot closer every day as more parts arrive! 

Thanks for the help.

Mike 

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Mike, I updated the post with a reference to break-in zinc additive.  Use CompCams or Lucas zinc break-in lube as per directions on the product.  You need zinc additive to get the proper run-in pattern between the flat tappet lifter bases and camshaft lobes.  Contemporary oil does not contain zinc, which is not an issue with roller lifters.  Once the engine break-in period is past, you can continue using a quality multi-vis oil and should no longer need the zinc additive.

I use Chevron Supreme motor oil with IsoSyn formulation, it's cost effective and formulated to be low-volatility molecules like a synthetic oil.   I was buying this oil by the case from Costco as 5W-30 or 10W-40 for our four-season climate.  (Costco now carries its own private label brand oil.)  I run Chevron Delo 400 in the Ram diesel.  You may have a synthetic or other oil you prefer.  I would not switch to synthetic oil until after break-in.

Moses

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Thanks for all the great insight Moses! I have been thinking a lot about “break in” and just how I should go about it. I will likely have this engine and transmission sitting in the frame and ready to run in the next few weeks. I won’t be ready to drive it for another 4-6 months. Is there any harm in running the engine once I get it in plumbed and wired? 
mid getting it up to temperature and shutting it down going to have any drawbacks or impact on break in? 
thanks

Mike

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As long as you get the engine to full warm-up temperature, it should be fine.  When you refer to "plumbed", I'm assuming you mean complete cooling system in place with coolant and distilled water or premixed coolant installed?  You mentioned a new radiator, be sure the cooling system is clean in every area.

Fully warm and idling, adjust the idle mix on the carburetor then run the engine at 1200-1400 rpm for a few minutes...Some change the oil filter (no crankcase draining) after the first run-up, which is not a bad idea.  The first filter has captured any initial metallic substances in the system.  I prime a new filter with fresh oil, just enough to keep from spilling during installation.  Start up the engine, circulate oil, shut down, top off to Full mark with oil and a bit more zinc additive, then bring the engine to warm operating temperature and park it.  Should be fine if the antifreeze is good for -34 degrees F (a 50/50 mix) and has circulated thoroughly, including through the heater core.

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