Stuart_Snow Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 I saw this CJ-7 in a barn and it attached itself to my CJ-3B recently and followed me home. I didn't know what to do so I joined this group. I only know how to work on F-heads. I started rubbing on the paint and now its shiny again so I'm going to be forced to make it run now. The head is off and all the parts are in the back. I don't know anything about these modern jeeps (1977) so I think I will need the re-builder's guide. It has a 258 with a 4 speed (granny?), a Spicer 20 transfer case, Front disk brakes, Non-power steering. Factory side mounted spare. Original factory paint (Tawny Orange). Solid floors and minor rust spots under the doors which are missing. It has and EGR/Air guard emissions system but no converter. Since this jeep is a one owner Arizona jeep I'm going to have to make it run again. I dont know why this had to happen to me but I'm hoping this group will help get me up to speed on the 258 engine. Stuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted March 17, 2018 Administrators Share Posted March 17, 2018 Stuart_Snow...This Group will be very happy to support your wise decision to add the Jeep CJ-7 to your fleet! You have found a highly original AMC/Jeep CJ from a great model era. The disc front brakes are the 1977 milestone for optimal factory equipment. The frame is stout, a 258 can run forever when in good condition, the transmission and axles are rugged and relatively easy to service. You knocked it out of the park with the T-18 truck grade 4-speed option. Dry Arizona has been very kind to the CJ-7's bare metal. Our home state, Nevada, has historically been good on this count, too. When I found my '55 CJ-5, it had set in a field for four decades with chipped paint but displayed only minor surface rust. Nevada has recently decided that Rust Belt road maintenance methods are just fine. NDOT is now spraying the freezing roads at high, dry Northern Nevada with a generous coating of salt brine before each storm. On that count, I've allocated a substantial amount of magazine space to the task of restoring and constructing brake and fuel lines, which you might find interesting for your Jeep projects: 1) http://www.4wdmechanix.com/video-series-how-to-flare-automotive-brake-tube-fuel-lines-and-cooler-tubing/ 2) http://www.4wdmechanix.com/how-to-fabricating-restoring-and-repairing-hydraulic-brake-lines/ We're all interested in your restorative work on this prime Jeep candidate...Looks like the 258 needs help, thanks for sharing photos. Let us know your plans. The Jeep CJ Rebuilder's Manual: 1972-86 will be an asset and provide orientation to the work. We can discuss details here! While we're at it, thought I'd mention that my favorite flat-fender Jeep is the CJ-3B. You couldn't ask for a better pair of 4x4s! F-heads forever, they'll run that long if you keep a lid on the rpm... Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart_Snow Posted March 18, 2018 Author Share Posted March 18, 2018 Moses, Thank you, I'm glad I found a good resource for re-build info. This jeep appears to have been well cared for by the original owner. The odometer says 18K miles but I'm sure that is 118K. I think a lot of it was road miles between Phoenix and a Mountain cabin. It doesn't appear to have ever been off-roaded very hard. No desert pinstripes or rock strikes underneath. The key to finding this jeep was having the CJ3-B. I wasn't looking for another jeep but while driving the 3B one day I was approached by someone who said they had an old jeep at their place they wanted to sell and I should come see it. I said OK not expecting much. What I found was this faded out CJ-7 with no doors and the head off do to a blown gasket. It had been setting for over 10 years and the head bolts and push rods were lost along with a lot of other nuts and bolts from the engine compartment. He wanted $1500 for it which I though was not bad given the condition but didn't buy it. After about 3 months the guy called me again and asked if I still wanted it. I couldn't refuse this time and drug it home with he 3B. I do have the smog pump and everything that goes with it and the Carter 1 barrel carb which looks rebuild-able. I will pull the engine out and go through it to see what I have to work with. I think it will be serviceable based on the condition of the rest of the jeep. I will have to meet Arizona emissions so I'll consider my EFI options and mild HP improvements for running up these mountain grades we have. I'm glad I've found the right place for good technical advice. Stuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted March 18, 2018 Administrators Share Posted March 18, 2018 Stuart...See below... 16 hours ago, Stuart_Snow said: Moses, Thank you, I'm glad I found a good resource for re-build info. This jeep appears to have been well cared for by the original owner. The odometer says 18K miles but I'm sure that is 118K. I think a lot of it was road miles between Phoenix and a Mountain cabin. It doesn't appear to have ever been off-roaded very hard. No desert pinstripes or rock strikes underneath. The key to finding this jeep was having the CJ3-B. I wasn't looking for another jeep but while driving the 3B one day I was approached by someone who said they had an old jeep at their place they wanted to sell and I should come see it. I said OK not expecting much. What I found was this faded out CJ-7 with no doors and the head off do to a blown gasket. It had been setting for over 10 years and the head bolts and push rods were lost along with a lot of other nuts and bolts from the engine compartment. He wanted $1500 for it which I though was not bad given the condition but didn't buy it. After about 3 months the guy called me again and asked if I still wanted it. I couldn't refuse this time and drug it home with he 3B. $1500 is great place to start. You will be into the engine, but the emissions equipment will prove helpful. It's otherwise hard to find, and if AZ has an emissions inspection program, you'll need this equipment. I do have the smog pump and everything that goes with it and the Carter 1 barrel carb which looks rebuildable. The Carter 1-barrel YF is simple and easy to service. This is another good place to start. Unless you do a full EFI conversion, stick with the OEM carburetor. I will pull the engine out and go through it to see what I have to work with. I think it will be serviceable based on the condition of the rest of the jeep. I will have to meet Arizona emissions so I'll consider my EFI options and mild HP improvements for running up these mountain grades we have. Mopar EFI Conversion is now so expensive (i.e., it's almost non-existent, Mopar Performance has no interest in the system any longer, HESCO cannot get the key OEM pieces) that you'll want to pass. The alternative is a 4.0L cylinder head conversion (with head mods to make it work), which would enable use of the OEM EFI/MPI from a 1991-95 4.0L engine. The two-rail MPI 1991-95 YJ or XJ system works well, this is the 60-way PCM. Wiring can be challenging, but if you can get the harness from the head/EFI system donor vehicle, it can be done. This was a key advantage of Mopar EFI, the harness has a 4-wire hookup to the chassis' electrical system. Many do the complete 4.0L engine swap alternative, using a complete 4.0L engine or building a 4.6L stroker with your existing 4.2L crankshaft and rods. See the 4WD Mechanix Magazine site for many insights into the 4.6L build, including my video interviews with Tony Hewes/Hewes Performance. Another option is Howell Engineering's popular TBI/EFI conversion, 50-State legal and an alternative if you want to keep the 4.2L engine and build on you existing long block. If the PO blew a head gasket, check the cylinder head for straightness and exhaust valve seat and casting cracks; look the cylinders over carefully, too. I'm glad I've found the right place for good technical advice. Me, too! I'm glad you joined the forums as a Subscriber Member. Moses 16 hours ago, Stuart_Snow said: Stuart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart_Snow Posted April 3, 2018 Author Share Posted April 3, 2018 My Restoration manual is due to arrive this week. I couldn't wait and was able to extract the engine and get it on the stand. Starrett gauges are standing by. So far it looks sound and turns over easy after setting for several years. I found no pieces in the oil pan! I'm looking forward to examining the bores and crankshaft. It turns out the head was redone by the same gentleman and WWII vet that did my CJ3B head. It just sat on the block for several years and never got bolted on. If I send the block out for machine work I'll make sure it is decked properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted April 4, 2018 Administrators Share Posted April 4, 2018 Exciting, Stuart...By next year, I plan to do a comprehensive how-to video series on the 232/258, 4.0L and stroker 4.6L Jeep engine builds. When completed, the streaming rental series will be available at the magazine's Vimeo On Demand site. I will update as that project unfolds. Meanwhile, some video insight would be my 6-part series on the 4.0L engine that is available at the magazine site. Here is a link to the series topics, they are free viewing of my interview with Tony Hewes. Much of this information on the 4.6L stroker engine build is applicable to your 258/4.2L rebuild. Helpful insights: http://www.4wdmechanix.com/Vlog-Why-Build-a-Jeep-4.6L-Stroker-Inline-Six?r=1 http://www.4wdmechanix.com/HD-Videos-Building-a-4.6L-Jeep-Inline-Six-Stroker-Motor?r=1 I am not suggesting that you must build a 4.6L stroker, although you might consider that option. If you're sticking with a stock rebuild (just fine with me!), the information from the Tony Hewes video interview series is valuable as well. Since your cylinder head is fresh and the block assembly is likely rebuildable, and cost is always an issue, a thorough rebuild of the short block makes good sense. A 258 is plenty for your intended use. Enjoy the project, Stuart...Great photos, thanks! Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart_Snow Posted April 17, 2018 Author Share Posted April 17, 2018 My CJ re-builders manual has arrived and I have had a chance to do some reading and thinking about where I want to go with this project. Since this jeep is still all original and untouched by any modifications I will do a quality rebuild of the 258 and keep it OEM. It has served this jeep well for the past 40 years after all so why not go for another 40. I will do a standard .030 re-bore with new pistons. The bores look good but have some wear as do the piston skirts and gummed up oil rings. Best to start from scratch after 118K miles. The rod bearings and journals look great which backs up my theory that this jeep was babied most of its life. I have experience with the older carter 1 barrel on my 54 F-head so that is a plus. This one looks only sightly more complex and was working when the jeep last ran. I had entertained the thought of the Comp Cam 252 but I'm not sure what the Carter 1 barrel would think of that and may open up a pandoras box. I could use some advice here as my gut feeling tells me I would need an upgrade of my fuel/air intake system to see any gains. This jeep has the Prestolite distributor with the BID (breaker-less inductive discharge) module. This may be an area I will look at upgrading. Is this the weakest link for this engine? I think I read that it is not the best option however it appears to have worked so far. I could use some advice here. I share your IMG_0271.MOVon keeping the engine bay as simple as possible for back country use. This is one reason I have treasured the CJ3B on many remote hunting trips and this was a factor in my decision to not do a stroker or EFI at this time. I'll get this project rolling but have a daughter to get married next month $$$. This project also came along in the middle of an airplane building project. I have spent the past several years converting a 1964 Corvair engine into a safe and reliable Aircraft engine. It sounds crazy but it was done under the guidance of William Wynne at Flycorvair.com. It runs now and I'll post a video if I can. The airplane is underway but is a long term project. I'm not a professional mechanic but this drives home the point that its all about how much you are willing to learn. I'm enjoying the site and I value your experience. I made some very costly mistakes on the F-head rebuild several years ago taking shortcuts. I learned my lesson the hard way that time. IMG_0271.MOVIMG_0271.MOV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted April 17, 2018 Administrators Share Posted April 17, 2018 Exciting, Stuart! See my comments below...Great progress: 10 hours ago, Stuart_Snow said: My CJ re-builders manual has arrived and I have had a chance to do some reading and thinking about where I want to go with this project. Since this jeep is still all original and untouched by any modifications I will do a quality rebuild of the 258 and keep it OEM. It has served this jeep well for the past 40 years after all so why not go for another 40. I will do a standard .030 re-bore with new pistons. The bores look good but have some wear as do the piston skirts and gummed up oil rings. Best to start from scratch after 118K miles. The rod bearings and journals look great which backs up my theory that this jeep was babied most of its life. Looks like polish only on the crankshaft? Plastigage to select the right rod and main insert bearings. 0.030" pistons are common for reman engines and readily available... I have experience with the older carter 1 barrel on my 54 F-head so that is a plus. This one looks only sightly more complex and was working when the jeep last ran. I had entertained the thought of the Comp Cam 252 but I'm not sure what the Carter 1 barrel would think of that and may open up a pandoras box. I could use some advice here as my gut feeling tells me I would need an upgrade of my fuel/air intake system to see any gains. CompCams might be too much for the YF Carter, the YF's CFM flow is around 200-235, and the rule of thumb is 1 CFM for each cubic inch of engine displacement to spin the engine at 4,000 rpm. A 252 camshaft would provide strong manifold vacuum and better torque at low rpm, it's a higher lift, moderate duration camshaft. If you want to consider the 252 grind or a carburetor/manifold change, please start a new topic. I'll discuss the Clifford/Offenhauser manifold and my preferred carburetor choices. Emission requirements play into any modifications here. This jeep has the Prestolite distributor with the BID (breaker-less inductive discharge) module. This may be an area I will look at upgrading. Is this the weakest link for this engine? I think I read that it is not the best option however it appears to have worked so far. I could use some advice here. Consider the G.M. HEI-style distributor (offered by 4WD Hardware and others) for the least expensive approach. Make sure you get the AMC/Jeep inline six application, do not use a stock G.M. 250/292 type distributor. Drive gears differ. MSD offers a quality distributor but you must buy the "box" with it. The GM-style HEI units use off-the-shelf service parts. I share your IMG_0271.MOVon keeping the engine bay as simple as possible for back country use. This is one reason I have treasured the CJ3B on many remote hunting trips and this was a factor in my decision to not do a stroker or EFI at this time. We can discuss the advantages of EFI/MPI at a new topic if you would like...A carburetor is altitude sensitive if that's an issue for your remote hunting trips... I'll get this project rolling but have a daughter to get married next month $$$. This project also came along in the middle of an airplane building project. I have spent the past several years converting a 1964 Corvair engine into a safe and reliable Aircraft engine. It sounds crazy but it was done under the guidance of William Wynne at Flycorvair.com. It runs now and I'll post a video if I can. The airplane is underway but is a long term project. Very exciting, would like to see the photos at the General forum, please post when you have time! The Corvair engine was proven at Baja and in other forms of racing. It has real potential when blueprinted, I'd prefer a properly built Corvair engine to a VW air-cooled engine or other options... I'm not a professional mechanic but this drives home the point that its all about how much you are willing to learn. I'm enjoying the site and I value your experience. I made some very costly mistakes on the F-head rebuild several years ago taking shortcuts. I learned my lesson the hard way that time. We can head off trouble and make your projects successful! IMG_0271.MOVIMG_0271.MOV Great photos, Scott, thanks! Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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