Dana 300 Transfer Case bits of metal in drain oil

[simple man]

I drained the Dana 300 on my '84 CJ-7 and found the bits of metal shown in the attached photo.  I also found, not pictured, what looks like half of a plastic sphere about a 1/4 inch in diameter.

I have looked at several exploded diagrams of transfer cases and cannot find anything that resembles what I found.

Any suggestions as to what these bits are from?

Thanks

[Moses Ludel]

Welcome to the forums, simple man...This looks somewhat like a speedometer cable end.  I can't understand the 90-degree angled parts, though.

Are you sure the ball is plastic?  You may have a speedometer drive gear or driven pinion (speedometer) issue—in the past or presently.  Does the speedometer work smoothly?

Which transmission do you have in the Jeep?  

Moses

[simple man]

Moses, thank you for responding.  In response to your question I have a T5 transmission.  

In talking to somebody this morning they suggested that the parts in the picture are part of the bearing cage.  Your opinion?  

Also, attached is a picture of another piece of metal from the transfer case. In looking at the part closely it appears that the end may have been stretched apart in working it's way through the case,it was more rounded before going through the case, almost like a C clip.  Any guess on what this piece was for? 

[Moses Ludel]

simple man...Much sharper image, thanks!  Yes, definitely bearing cage pieces.  Looks either corroded or heat affected.  Do you have accompanying noise from a bad bearing?  Whining or howling?  Doubtful this was left in the case after a rebuild unless the unit was thrown together without thorough tear down and cleaning.  The bearing would likely still in place and suffering.

If you have other signs of trouble, I would do a transfer case removal, disassembly, inspection and rebuild (at least new bearings, seals, small parts, etc.).  These parts came out of the drain plug hole, so they indicate confinement to the transfer case and not, by design, introduced from the T5 transmission.  The Dana 300 is self-contained and sealed.

Let us know where this leads...Share photos, we appreciate the details!

Moses

[Rinky Dink]

Link to the TSM Transfer Case page. http://oljeep.com/gw/82_tsm/Part 2 Section D.pdf

To me that looks like a stretched out "C" clip.

[simple man]

Rinky Dink,

Thanks for the link, the details on disassembly and assembly will be very useful.  I will probably drop the transfer case over the weekend and the start investigating what is going on.  

[Moses Ludel]

simple man...Several forum members have done the Dana 300 and furnished photos of their work...You should have the bases covered.  Let us know what the metal bits represent.

I cover the Dana 300 rebuild in detail within my Jeep CJ Rebuilder's Manual: 1972-86 (Bentley Publishers).

Moses

[simple man]

Quick question, how many bolts are there holding a T5 transmission to the transfer case.  I read somewhere that there should be 6 bolts but I can only find 5.  I found 3 bolts on the drivers side and 2 on the passenger side. From the illustrations I have seen it looks like there is supposed to be a bolt at the 12 o'clock position.  However, when looked through the transmission tunnel cutout for the transfer case shifter I can't see it.  Is it behind the transmission shift lever?  If so, how do  I reach it?

Rick

[Rinky Dink]

If it is a D 300 the diagram shows 6 bolts on the trans side.

 

[simple man]

I have a similar illustration showing the 6 bolts.  According to the diagram I have the bolts are at 60, 120, 180, 240, 300, 360 degrees.  Since the case is clocked, I think 20+/- degrees, I wonder are the bolts shifted 20 degrees, i.e. 20, 80, 140, etc degrees?  If so, it may just be that I am looking in the wrong place for the "6th" bolt.  I'll check it out tomorrow. 

[60Bubba]

On my D300, I think there were two studs with nuts and the rest were bolts.  Also, if you find any gear issues when you're in there, let me know.  I have a set of factory D300 gears sitting on the bench, as I just put in a 4:1 gear kit.  If you think there is any chance you might want to have the low range gears in the future, now is the time to do it!

These new gears are monsters!

 

[60Bubba]

Don't worry if yours looks different than these.  This was before the countershaft went back in!

[simple man]

Well, I know why I couldn't find the 6th bolt/threaded stud,  THERE WASN'T ANY.  The hole for the bolt located at the 12 o'clock position was filled in.  When feeling behind the transmission case, to where I guess the bolt would exit there is no "exit" hole.  The hole is right in front of the transmission shift lever.

As you can see from the attached photo it looks like the condition has been there for a while.

Any thoughts on why I don't have a 6th bolt?  

PS I should mention that there is a corresponding 6th hole on the transfer case.

[simple man]

Well I have begun disassembling the transfer case and have immediately run into a problem.  

I cannot remove the rear bearing cap from the rear output shaft.  The bearing cap comes about 3/4 inch away from the transfer case put will not come off the shaft,  

I have tried striking the end of the shaft to knock it away from the cap, I have tried using and air impact hammer (as suggested by Moses in his Rebuilding Jeep book) and I have tried using moderate force from an hydraulic press, all to no avail.

Any ideas about what is causing the hangup?  A friend suggested a spun bearing race.  Does that make sense?

Any suggestions on what to try next?  Should I just try to put more pressure from the press? 

[Moses Ludel]

simple man...Your photos are valuable and would help here.  The rear bearing cap and output shaft are free of the transfer case?  You cannot get the output shaft to pass through the bearing?  The air hammer with blunt point will usually "dance" a shaft through the old bearing unless there is an obstruction or parts require further disassembly before attempting this step.

Please post photos of where you stand in this process, showing the parts accessible and what you're attempting to do.  Don't force anything...We always want to reuse the serviceable parts!

Moses

[simple man]

Moses, yes the rear bearing cap is loose from the case but will only come approximately 3/4 inch away from the case, see photo.  In attempting we have hit the end of the shaft with a dead blow hammer, used an air hammer , with a blunt tip, and used a press.  Though with the press we limited the amount of pressure used, not knowing what the limits are.  

I have seen a YouTube video with someone using a 3 jaw gear puller to remove the cap.  Is it safer,from the standpoint of damaging parts, to use a gear puller, attached to the cap, or a hydraulic press pressing down on the end of the shaft. My concern with the gear puller is that it will crack the cap and with the press is that it will press the bearing race deeper into the cap and damage the inside the cap.

Also, attached is a photo of the bearing looking from the end of the shaft, the oil seal has been removed.  I realize it isn't the greatest photo and I will try to get a better photo later.   

Thanks 

Edited April 25, 2017 by simple man
Added thought

[Moses Ludel]

simple man...Please verify that you have followed each of the sequential steps in Chapter 4/Dana 300 of the book.  No steps overlooked...Each step must be performed before separating the bearing cap.  Otherwise, the rear cap can be bound up by pieces that needed removal before the cap's separation.

You're using good judgment.  Don't over-stress the cap, it will break.  Once all of the disassembly steps have been confirmed, the optimal force should be strictly between the shaft and the bearing.  Can you support or back up the bearing from the inside of the case (inboard of the cap exposed in the photo)?

When you look downward into the iron case, is there anything obstructing the shaft from moving as you apply force?  Are shift rails and the poppets preventing the cap from moving?  Can you back up the bearing inner collar/race before applying force?  If the bearing is damaged, be very cautious about force, the bearing cage may shatter and send rollers out with velocity.

Note: With caged ball bearings, force isolated between the inner bearing collar and the shaft is always safer.  With a tapered roller bearing as you have illustrated here, the shaft pressing inward loads or compresses the rollers, which is a bit less risky.  The lip of the inner collar is applying pressure to the roller ends, however, and there's a limit to how much pressure the lip can handle. Be careful...This is why safety goggles are a good idea; these bearings are hard steel and act like shrapnel if they break apart!

Moses 

[simple man]

SUCCESS. Well after 24+ hours of PB Blaster, judicial application of a BFH, and a couple of trip to the hydraulic press we finally got the Rear output shaft rear bearing separated from the shaft.  From the picture you can see the rust that had built up on the inside of the bearing.  Also, attached is picture of the cause for all of this aggravation, the rear output shaft front bearing. (It seems to me that the descriptors front and rear bearing for these two should be reversed.)

In looking at the condition of all of the bearings in the case it looks like the "front bearing" had failed and the previous owners had and gone into the case and ended up replacing all of the bearings on the input shaft, front output shaft and rear output shaft, with the exception of the front bearing.  You can also tell that somebody had worked on the case because some have the bolts had blue thread sealer while others had a yellowish sealant, which I assume was what was used at the time of manufacture.

Luckily for me the previous mechanic did not remove all of the debris from the original bearing and that trash came out when I went to change the fluid in the case. 

So, I figure my next steps are to remove the failed bearing and then finish the disassembly followed by a rebuild. 

One question before I proceed, can the clutch be removed by driving the shaft out through the back of the case or do I have to remove the bearing off the front of the shaft and then the clutch gear?

Thanks

[Moses Ludel]

simple man...Your patience paid off, no damage to other parts in the process, good job!  Figures 4-109 to 4-112 in the book should be helpful here.  Using your hydraulic press, create an opening for the shaft to pass through the V- or round slots of the press plates (using Harbor Freight press plates as a ready example).  As the shaft presses through the center opening in the plates, the gears are supported on the plates' shelves.  This should make sense if you look at the shaft and gear/clutch pieces.

By using this "factory" approach, these parts are floating in the case as you apply press force; you do not stress or damage the case with pounding or driving force.  Considering the condition of the damaged bearing, this recommended removal method will press against the inner collar of the damaged bearing and reduce risk of further bearing disintegration.

As you move into the assembly section in the book, you'll see the relationship of these parts going together.  This will clarify how we prevent stress or damage to the iron case.  Yes, it's awkward to handle the case and gears like this, but "floating" the parts during disassembly and assembly eliminates risk of parts damage.

Moses