Jump to content

snoopy2x

Moderators
  • Posts

    93
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by snoopy2x

  1. This past weekend I started the reassembly of the Ross TL box I'm in the process of rebuilding. At that point, I had already removed the old bushings using a bushing driver and a rubber mallet, after which all parts were glass bead blasted. - As shown in the instructional video, I used a Dremel to carefully grind out a small divot in the wall of the outer shaft bushing in order to clear the oil passageway in the gearbox housing: - The bushings were then installed in the housing, using the press-fit lube and a hydraulic press. I found that the most difficult part was getting the bushings "started", i.e. pushed partway into the housing, before pressing them all the way in. I was finally able to accomplish this using the appropriately sized bushing driver, and very carefully, lightly tapping them in with a rubber mallet. Both bushings were pressed into the housing from the outside, the smaller inner bushing first, followed by the outer: - I then checked the fit of the lever shaft in the newly installed bushings, using some light oil on the shaft. I immediately found I could not get the shaft started through the inner bushing (going from the inside toward the outside of the housing). The shaft would easily go in from the opposite direction, but I still could not push the end of it past the last 1/8" or so of the innermost portion of the inner bushing. By measuring back from the end of the spline to the housing, I was able to determine exactly where the obstruction in the inner bushing was: - I suspected that the cause of the obstruction may have been that I had very slightly "tweaked" the bushing as I was trying to get it started into the hole in the housing. In any case, the use of the 3-stone (brake cylinder) hone quickly and easily resolved the issue. I stopped and inserted the lever shaft at least 10 times during the honing, just to make sure I didn't remove any more material from the inner bushing than necessary in order to get the shaft to fit through both bushings (and I did not hone the outer bushing at all). The 3-stone hone is shown here turning fairly slowly in a variable-speed drill: - As soon as the inside diameter of the inner bushing was large enough, I installed the lever shaft, which then fit and rotated smoothly. I checked the runout measurement at the spline end, and was pleased to find that it was right at .001". - Since I had honed the inner bushing a bit, I thought it might be a good idea to check the runout measurement at that end of the lever shaft as well. I got the same results as at the spline end, with almost exactly .001" of total vertical movement: (Note: By comparison, both lever shaft bushing end clearances in the worn steering gear when removed from my jeep measured more than six times this figure, at over .006"!) I hope to be able to find time to proceed with the next step of the TL box rebuild later this week.
  2. Thanks, Moses....given the fact that it was specifically designed for vintage steering boxes, is an EP lube, and has been successfully used in Ross TL boxes (by both Jeep and Studebaker owners), I'm going to go with the Penrite. Since it sounds like it could potentially extend the life of the lever shaft pins, I may install a TIghtSteer unit on the rebuilt box and see how it performs.
  3. On a separate note...... you may be aware that Walck's sells a kit to fit the Ross manual steering boxes called a TightSteer, http://walcks4wd.com/tightsteer , which replaces the old preload adjustment screw with a spring-loaded adjustment screw. The theory behind it is that on Ross steering boxes with worn lever shaft pins and/or cam, there is no way to maintain the correct preload with the stock screw, because due to the uneven wear on the internal moving parts, the screw is either too tight or too loose in given spots. The TightSteer is supposed to maintain a preload even with uneven cam or lever shaft pin wear. What are your thoughts on the use of a TightSteer unit on the Ross TL boxes?
  4. As always, thank you for the feedback and advice, Moses! Is there a particular modern manual steering gear lubricant you would recommend using in these Ross boxes? One I've read about, but have no direct experience with is made by Penrite. Though it's referred to as a grease in the description, from online user reviews I understand that it's actually more like a very thick oil. It is "semi-fluid", and comes in a 500 ml bottle (see photo below). Penrite Steering Box Lube is suitable for veteran/vintage and some classic car steering boxes. This high viscosity (1200w) self-levelling grease features non-corrosive extreme pressure (EP) additives to provide film strength. Penrite Steering Box Lube is an extreme pressure, NLGI 00, lithium based grease, blended with effective anti-wear, rust and oxidation inhibitors. Lithium soap base. Normal operating temperature is from -20C to 130C. Here's a link to Penrite's website page with more product info: Herehttp://www.penriteoil.com.au/products.php?id_categ=14&id_products=90 This thread on the Old WIllys Forum discusses the use of several different manual steering gear lubes in Ross boxes, including Penrite: http://www.oldwillysforum.com/forum/showthread.php?1769-Steering-box-lube-what-to-use/page2&s=2cbd7346e49b4e348e7ac7891c74143a I believe Penrite is an Australian product, but it's available in the US through Restoration Supply Company: http://www.restorationstuff.com/products.html If you open their .pdf catalog you'll find it at the bottom of Page 24, where it's referred to as "Our Best Seller - Steering Box Lube, 1200w, EP non-leaking, manual box specialty gear oil". Other modern lubes used in vintage steering boxes I've seen referenced in various automotive forums include: - Royal Purple Thermax semi-fluid grease - Amsoil Semi-Fluid 00 Synthetic EP Grease (GSF) - John Deere Special-purpose Corn Head Gun Grease AN 102562 - Shell Alvania 00 grease - Mobil SHC634. - Millers Oils Classic Worm Steering Box Oil - Redline Synthetic Light Weight Shock Proof Gear Oil High-Performance Gear Lubricant I'm not sure which, if any would be appropriate for the early jeep Ross steering boxes. Do you have opinions about the use of any of these, or any other specific modern lubes in this application?
  5. I asked the prior owner if he had made the modification to the horn tube, and he said he couldn't remember ever doing so. However, he did remember having the steering gear serviced by someone else when it began to wear out many years ago. This information dovetails with what I found when disassembling the box, and may offer a clue to the origin of the horn wire tube mod: First, the lever / sector shaft I removed from this steering box did not appear to be the original, as it didn't have the Ross part number (TL124999) cast on the flat end. In fact, it didn't have any numbers on it at all, which probably indicates it's an aftermarket replacement part. Also, the horn wire tube had suffered a good deal of bending, though it appeared someone had hand-straightened it enough to get it to fit back into the core of the worm shaft. This bent-up condition, as your video pointed out, is a clear indication that whoever took it apart failed to follow the proper sequence of removing the sector shaft prior to removing the worm shaft. There's no way to know for sure, but based on the evidence, my guess is that in an attempt to replace a worn sector shaft, someone improperly disassembled the box, bending and stressing the horn wire tube in the process. This easily could have in turn caused a crack where the end of the tube was braised to the cover, creating an oil leak there. I believe the compression plumbing fitting screwed into the open end of the tube was probably an impromptu "fix" made in order to slightly expand the diameter of the tube where it passes through the hole in the cover, which succeeded in stopping the leak.
  6. Thank you again for the kind words, Moses. I very much appreciate your thoughts. Coming from someone who is as authoritative and deeply knowledgeable about jeeps as you are, they really mean something. My goal has been and continues to be to keep my jeep stock, visually speaking, while improving and updating it technologically where the changes aren't visible. I've taken the same approach with my GPW, though the changes to it have not been as extensive as those I've made to the CJ5. Now if only someone would produce a kit to internally convert an original Ross steering box to a recirculating ball type..... just kidding, but wouldn't it be great if that were possible!? I picked up the steering parts from the blaster yesterday, and hope to complete the reassembly of the Ross box over the weekend.
  7. Hi Moses, you're correct that the new races in the NOS Ross / TRW bearing kit are indeed the roll-neck type. I will certainly use them in the rebuild. I have to say though that the old roll-neck races appear to be in very good usable condition. A picture of a (repro) CJ upper steering column bearing is below. I'm not sure if it's technically a roller bearing or a ball bearing, but I think it may actually be the ball type. You're probably familiar with this method of regreasing old sealed or shielded bearings using a vacuum pump. I'm thinking this could be an excellent way to regrease the steering column bearing as well, using the type of grease you've recommended: Any thoughts on this idea? Maury PS - Also, thanks very much for the kind words about my jeep! Though it's a bit off-subject (and please feel free to relocate this to a new thread if that would be more appropriate), here's a video I made a few weeks ago showing its newly rebuilt Dauntless V6. Externally, the rebuilt engine appears stock. Internally, it has been line bored, balanced (both rotating assembly and weight-matched), and ported. Block was decked, heads were shaved, and cylinders were bored to accommodate 231 pistons, yielding a compression ratio of 9.18:1. A custom Comp cam (based on modified 260H design specs) was installed, along with new oversized valves, springs, seats, guides, pushrods, hydraulic lifters, and new bearings throughout. TA Performance adjustable oil pump and Cloyes double roller timing chain & gears were also installed during the rebuild. Original alternator was rebuilt by TAE, original starter was rebuilt by CAS. and original distributor was rebuilt and recurved by Advanced Distributors. Engine was rebuilt by Thomas Lassman Custom Engines & Performance of Black Mountain, NC. The newly rebuilt engine idles remarkably smoothly (particularly for a Dauntless!) After rebuild there is no noticeable change in low end torque, and mid and upper ranges have significantly increased power.
  8. The current horn tube end appears to me to be a small brass plumbing compression fitting which was carefully threaded into the opening of the tube where it penetrates the steel cover. I'd guess it was probably added by the previous owner, a machinist whose extended family had owned the jeep since it was new. I'll give him a call soon and ask if he remembers making such a modification. (I've stayed in touch with him since he sold me the jeep in 2010, as he was very attached to it. Here's some info on the vehicle's background if you're interested: http://www.earlycj5.com/xf_cj5/index.php?threads/near-original-67-cj5.71624/) If you don't mind, Moses, I have a couple of bearing-related questions for you at this point: 1) Both of the Ross boxes I disassembled this weekend appear to have been worked on at some point previously, as neither had the circular end clips in place to retain the bearing races. Also, one of them had what I can only assume were aftermarket bearing races on the worm / cam shaft. Rather than having a quarter-circle shaped inside track for the ball bearings to ride in, the inside track on these races is a simple right angle instead. Any thoughts on those? 2) I also removed the upper steering column roller bearing and cleaned it in solvent. I think it's probably the original, and it still spins fine, but I'm wondering if it should be lubricated with some particular type of grease prior to being re-installed. What would be the best lubricant for that bearing (or should it just be left dry)? I'm off to the blaster's place tomorrow morning, assuming they're open after the 12" of snow we had here this weekend.... Thanks again, Moses!
  9. Okay, I've finally found time to start disassembling the two Ross steering boxes I'm working on. Before getting too far into that, though, I thought I'd post some photos and descriptions of the differences between the two. The box from my 1967 V6 CJ5, casting number TL122995, is shown in the first three photos below. This box has the date of 1-66 cast into the rear face (my jeep was built in August 1966). Note that this box has been modified to raise its oil capacity by the use of a small pipe elbow screwed into the side oil fill port, exactly like the steering box shown here: http://www.4wdmechanix.com/moses-ludels-4wd-mechanix-magazine-willys-cj-jeepster-tires-suspension-steering-brakes/ Interestingly, I asked a local mechanic friend who was the service manager at a jeep dealership in the 1970's about it, and he told me they routinely made this modification to Ross steering boxes with side oil fill ports. Given that information, I'm guessing this mod may actually have been recommended by Kaiser and/or AMC. Also, on this same box, a prior owner apparently modified the horn tube cover, most likely in an effort to get it to stop leaking oil. The second box is one I recently picked up that came from a 1969 V6 CJ5, and is shown in the last two photos below. Its casting number (which appears to have been partially milled off, possibly during production), is TL122997. It's dated 3-68, and has the top oil fill port rather than a side fill port, giving it a higher oil capacity than the earlier box. For this reason, I plan to use this later box in my 1967. I believe this at least partially answers the question Moses asked in the thread linked to above regarding the locations of the Ross steering box oil fill ports. The change from side to top oil fill ports in the V6 steering boxes (and perhaps the M38A1 boxes as well) was evidently made sometime between 1966 and early 1968. When I disassembled the box from the '69, the worm / cam shaft came out minus the bottom bearing race, which I had to carefully fish out around the horn wire tube. This occurred because the unit was previously disassembled and improperly reassembled, as it was missing both of the retainer clips that should have been behind each of the bearing races. My next step is to finish disassembly, including removal of the old lever / sector shaft bushings, and take all of the parts to be re-used to get media-blasted.
  10. Thanks, Moses! Regarding the horn wire tube, would it be correct to assume that the flat disk at the end is swaged or press-fit into the steering box housing and against the seal, so that the seal stays slightly compressed and keeps oil from leaking out? After reading your last post I started looking around online for drag link rebuild kits. Those I've come across so far appear to be imported (as none of the sellers claim them to be US made). However, Walck's sells a kit that looks like it may be a bit different from the others.....or it may just be a better photo: http://walcks4wd.com/drag-link-repair-kit-all-model.html Since I'm going to the trouble and expense of rebuilding the steering box, would you advise "tightening up" everything else in the steering linkage while I'm at it? Besides a drag link rebuild kit, I'm thinking that maybe I should also install one of these (which is made in USA): http://walcks4wd.com/bell-crank-repair-kit-1-18-cj5.html I'll probably go ahead and order the press-fit lube.....it would be worth the cost if it helps keep me from messing up a pair of NOS sector shaft bushings. I noticed this possible alternative to Sunnen B200, which looks like it may be Goodson's less expensive house brand equivalent: https://www.goodson.com/GOODSON-Press-Fit-Lube-Aerosol/ Thank you again for all your help, Moses!
  11. Hi Moses, It turns out that the anticipated timing of my first CJ5 V6 Ross Steering Box rebuild has accelerated quite a bit. I should have it removed and be ready to proceed sometime next week. I'm happy to report that I succeeded in finding quite a few NOS parts so far, including the sector shaft, shaft bushings and seal, and an original set of Ross caged ball bearings & races (though I understand it was the last set of these that Willys Jeep Parts had in stock). I'm attaching a scan of the 1965-dated directions that came in the box with this NOS bearing set, in case you or your readers might find it interesting. Before I begin rebuilding the box, if you don't mind, I have a few more questions for you: 1) Exactly how is the horn wire tube retained in the completed assembly? - in other words, what keeps the bottom plate of the tube pressed against the seal so that the assembly doesn't leak oil? How should this tube be removed during disassembly, in order to ensure that it isn't damaged? 2) I noted in your video on restoring these boxes that the ball on the end of the Pitman Arm needs to be inspected for wear. If I measure the diameter of the ball horizontally and vertically, how much wear is too much wear? In other words, does it have to be perfectly spherical in order to be acceptable, or is some particular not-to-exceed number of thousands of an inch of "out-of-roundness" still okay for re-use? 3) I bought a quality 3-stone reamer as suggested, but do not yet have a Goodson Tool (or similar) King Pin Reamer. This appears to be a pretty pricey item, and I'm wondering whether or not you think for the V6 box rebuild that I'll definitely need it, and it is therefore worth the cost of purchasing. I strongly suspect I will have more questions as this unfolds.....thank you again for being so generous with your expertise, Moses! Maury
  12. Thank you, Moses. I suspect that it may be a month or two before my brother in law gets his box & steering column removed so I can help him rebuild it, but as soon as we reach that point, I will certainly post photos of the process, and of course any questions that come up (and I feel sure I will have some for you!) I actually have the exact 20-ton HF hydraulic bottle jack press you mentioned, as well as an arbor press. Is there any reason it would be preferable to use the hydraulic press, rather than an arbor press, to install the sector shaft bushings? (I'm guessing I could use the bushing drivers & adapters with either one, but I may be wrong about that.) Thank you again for all your advice and assistance, Moses!
  13. Thanks largely to your encouragement, I've decided to bite the D.I.Y. bullet, and have started acquiring the tools I'll need that I don't already have (mainly a dial indicator & magnetic mount, spring scale, bushing driver set, and 3-stone hone). These are not cheap of course, but even so, I realize that purchasing them will probably result in an overall cost savings relative to what I would spend to have a pro rebuild my Ross box....plus of course I will learn how to use them for future projects (....any excuse to buy new tools, right?) I'll post photos of my rebuilding effort on this forum once I get around to actually doing the work. I understand that the hardest parts of the process are removing the steering column and box from the jeep and reinstalling them. In any case, I will be heavily referring to and leaning on your video, and of course your 1946-71 CJ Rebuilder's Manual throughout. I've read some not-so-great reviews of the Omix-Ada sector shafts, particularly in regard to the highly questionable quality of the metal (see: http://www.earlycj5.net/xf_cj5/index.php?threads/omix-ada-steering-failure.117583/). However, I was fortunate enough to find a couple of crossover M38A1 NOS sector shafts online at a jeep parts supply house in England. According to the proprietor, they are genuine Willys ex-Danish Army supply stock parts. I bought the last ones they had (I got a second one for my brother in law so I can first help him with his identical Ross box, which is in greater need of rebuilding than mine) and they are on their way across the pond now. The best source I've been able to find so far for other Ross steering box parts is Willys Jeep Parts at https://www.willysjeepparts.com . Their website is a bit cumbersome to navigate, but the tenacious parts hound will be rewarded by finding a significant number of available NOS Ross and Willys items. Speaking of which, do you think 40-50 year old NOS sector shaft seals would still be serviceable (as I assume the seals themselves are rubber)? Maury
  14. I have two Jeep 4x4s, a 1942 GPW and a 1967 CJ-5. As I've worked on them over the years, I've purchased several of your books, which I consistently find to be thorough and fascinating. The Ross steering box on my V6 CJ5 is in need of rebuilding, and I'm currently in the process of collecting the necessary parts (NOS to the greatest extent possible, including the sector shaft). I watched your excellent video on rebuilding the Ross boxes at http://www.4wdmechanix.com/Rebuilding-the-Ross-TL-Steering-Gear?r=1, and found it extremely thorough. However, I realized after watching it that I have neither all of the necessary tools nor as strong of a skill set as I would like to have in order to do the work myself and be confident about the results. I noted while watching the video that you apparently sometimes do (or perhaps did) the rebuilding of these boxes yourself. If by chance you're still doing that kind of work in your shop - along with all of your writing and teaching, which I'm sure must occupy most of your time - I would be very interested in discussing sending you mine for rebuilding. If not, could you possibly recommend someone who could rebuild my Ross box to similar standards? Let me also take this opportunity to say thank you very much for all of the excellent resources you've provided to jeep owners over the years!
×
×
  • Create New...