zidodcigalah
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Its been a long time but I wanted to provide an update to this, in case someone else is on a same journey. I gave up relocating vent hole because I was in a rush and didn't want to drill thru housing since everything was already installed. After three months of test driving I think I can call this a success. No issues at all, no more rattling noise (there is some rattling present in PARK but it's not as loud as before). I still have to properly adjust throttle/shift linkage since there is some slack there but thats mostly it. I spent a lot of time revisiting already done work and was lucky enough that I catched some of mistakes I did during reassembly. Problem is there are some parts that you can reinstall both ways and if you don't do this often and don't have FSM or photos from disassembly its gonna be a problem. Here are some of the items where I'd advise extra care: Governor housing indexing - make sure to remember relation between gov. housing and output shaft. Also, keep track of governor weights, on my model I could install governor weight 2 ways. Manual mentions spotfaced output shaft but mine was not. Kickdown valve Output shaft support - there are 6 ways to install it but only one is correct Sprag - has one non-threaded hole that aligns with housing hole Pump gears - on '94/'95 model there is chamfered side of the inner gear, its not symmetrical Fiber thrust washer between direct drum and stator Lip seals - they are not like rings, they go only one way Snap rings on drums - keep track which one goes where because not all are flat and it's easy to mix them I also realized some things I was unaware about A904. I was always wondering why I can't do part-throttle downshift to 2nd if going above 65kmh (40mph). Now I realize there is limit valve in valve body that prevents part throttle downshift. Also, at some point (I believe '70s) they added 3-2 part throttle downshift module but there is no 2-1 part throttle downshift. Trans will downshift only if vehicle speed is low enough (so that gov pressure is low) or on full throttle kickdown. I always thought this is an issue with my transmission, because with stock gearing and 33" tires rpms are low and you feel undergeared so you'd expect transmission to downshift.
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Thanks you Moses. I remember that article but I haven't ordered that comb upgrade, somehow I missed it when I placed orders. As for the clutch spring compressor, I couldn't ship it from USA since I already maxed out the shipment weight, so I thought to either fabricate something or try with clamps I did check front/rear clutch clearances, they are within specs from FSM (close to min specs, unfortunately didn't check it while they were dry). I saw that most kits for a904 came with 7 steels and 8 clutch disks - even Alto official catalogue lists same numbers. I thought that these front clutches are thinner than OEM and that is why they provided one extra friction/steel for front drum but it looks like that is not the case. As for the kickdown valve and switch valve orientation - I checked the hydraulic diagrams and it seems that switch valve from first photo and kickdown valve from second are not oriented properly. Guess it's an error in FSM. Regarding vent relocation - I found a bunch of information online that getting stuck in deep water could cause water to enter thru vent hole in transmission. I did get stuck once but didn't find any traces of water in the transmission later on, but if relocation could prevent future damage I'd do it. Here is one of the posts: https://www.jeepforum.com/threads/relocating-vent-on-32rh-3-speed-auto.462033/ This location looks to me like it would do more harm than good, but again I might be missing something.
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Last photo is there by mistake. I haven't mentioned that I'll probably relocate vent. However, I'm unsure which location would be fine to do so? I've seen people drill hole just above the pump close to factory vent and then seal the old vent. I find this weird but maybe I'm missing something.
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Ok so here are the parts used for a rebuild: Alto clutches (9) with kolene steels (8), bushings/washers/gaskets/rings from kit Kevlar front and rear bands Sonnax accumulator piston (22841-04K) Sonnax rear servo piston (22912A) Sonnax rear servo piston plug (22912-01K) Sonnax pressure regulator valve (22771A-02K) Sonnax manual valve (22771-09) Sonnax check balls 1/4" (10000-08) Here are a couple photos of a rebuild: I removed all the separator plate rust with scotch brite and tried to polish it a bit with 1500 grit paper. No deep scratches present on the plate, no damage on check ball holes, checked for flatness so it looks good. It's not really mirror polished but it looks fine ( scotchbrite did leave some fine marks but none of them can be felt with nail, I guess that is only visual). I did couple of passes on valve body/transfer plate with 400-ish grit paper, without much pressure, just to remove any potential metal particles. Check balls are held with blue assembly goo. Rear clutch assembly in progress. Checked clearances after assembly, close to min specs. No photos of front clutch assembly since I had hard time improvising with C clamps Case ready to accept parts I'm mostly done but have a couple of doubts: Kit came with 9 clutch disks. In my 32rh, there were only 8, and ofc there is no way to install all of them. Should the pressure plates be machined so that front drum can accept 5 disks instead of 4? I did notice couple of inconsistencies in FSM. I have 1995 YJ (sold as '96) and manual for '95. Valve body diagrams are inconsistent and there are some details regarding governor that I can't understand. Not sure what applies for my year? Switch valve orientation seems wrong. Then I checked in 2000 TJ FSM and there its fine but throttle valve is weird. I did a research and couldn't find single picture/video with throttle valve oriented like in that photo In '95 FSM they mention indexing governor body before removal since output shaft is spotfaced to accept valve, but I couldn't see anything being machined over that hole. In 2000 FSM there is no mention of that. In '95 FSM they say to mark location of rear support, but on mine there is an arrow with "Pan Face" stamped on it so I guess no need to do that. I was not careful enough and I damaged rear clutch piston seal during installation (guess plastic I used was too sharp..). Is this damage severe? I can't afford to wait months for parts, thinking about reinstalling old one if this one is too damaged. I did a light test for all valves, and I couldn't see any light leaks except one on the pressure valve. It was present with both old and new(sonnax) pressure regulator valve. No damage on the old valve coating. In diagram this area is marked with dots.
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Still waiting for the rebuild parts, I guess because of omicron and holidays the delays are huge compared to 2 years ago. In the meantime, I cleaned up valve body parts. I was stupid enough not to lube separator plate after cleaning it with water and degreaser. It was fine until I left the parts in the trunk for 2 nights and now I can see surface rust appeared on the separator plate. Can I just remove rust with scotchbrite or this is something to worry about? Seems like it appeared only on exposed sections where vb mates with the case (I temporary reasembled everything to prevent losing springs/screws, guess that saved the rest of the plate).
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Yup, I believe this trans had around 175k+ kilometers before bands were adjusted
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Moses, I really appreciate all of your help and advices. In the past few years I try to be less part changer and more diagnostic, but that is not easy for people like me who don't have hands on experience. Thanks to you we were able to pinpoint possible causes of the problem. Even though I could probably get away with existing parts (+ checkballs) this is something that will have to be done in 10-20k miles or less anyway (spec says so). No point in reinstalling it in the vehicle without rebuilding first. Same applies for converter. I hope this thread will be useful to someone who might be dealing with an issue like this one. One last questions before I order parts - I checked rear band lining. If I understood well, these don't fail too often. However, mine has some black lines along the lining. Is this one salvageable or I should order new one?
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UPDATE: I think I solved the mystery of aluminium chunks in pan. One of the pan bolt threads is stripped completely. Those chunks are a bit radial so I was able to match the curvature with the bolt hole. It's definitely from there, it probably ended up in pan during removal. So far only visible damage is direct drum/ sun gear shell and a bit burnt friction discs (I re-checked and direct drum frictions are black, at least middle ones). There seems to be no huge slack between drum and sun gear shell, so I will probably keep them. Next step would be to verify bushing wear, thrust washer wear and rear band condition. I guess washers are fine since endplay was in the middle of spec.
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Thanks Moses. Will check everything you said. When I finished engine rebuild I installed new flexplate bolts, they originaly had black coating but heads are looking like stainless steels now. Looks like they were hitting/scratching dust plate. Now this can be source of noise but it does not explain debris and noise that is present in PARK only or under special conditions in D. Even though this trans was running, most of the parts in this trans are barely within spec so I'm gonna invest in rebuild kit. Based on bushing/thrust washer wear I will check what kit I'm gonna need. These are Raybestos RED and ALTO Red. They list them as "high performance". I've seen that Altos are flat, no grooves on frictions, not sure if that is important. Not sure if it's worth investing in these or in OEM Raybestos, Alto or BorgWarner. (years might not be correct but stores have proper bushings and bands and number of clutches for 1995 separately) https://www.oregonperformancetransmission.com/product/OPT-A904-RBHP.html https://norcaltransmissionparts.com/027901hp-l2-dodge-a904-tf-6-transmission-alto-red-eagle-performance-master-level-2-rebuild-kit-1960-71.html From SONNAX I already got these: rear servo piston/pin, accumulator piston, manual valve, pressure regulator valve, checkballs 1/4". I've sent torque converter to be rebuilt, just in case since I'm gonna do full rebuild.
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Haven't compressed clutches yet. I removed pump today together with front and rear clutches. Before removal I checked input shaft endplay and it was within limits (1.2 mm, spec is from 0.56 - 2.31mm). So far I haven't found anything obvious... After pump removal, I disassembled it and checked bushing along with pump gears. No scoring, nothing I could feel with the nails. Couldn't think of a way to measure inner to outer gear tooth clearance with feeler gauge or how to check if bushing is still within spec. I checked clearances with feeler gauges and they are within spec albeit a bit on a higher side: outer gear to pump 0.16mm, spec is from 0.08 to 0.19mm gears to straight edge 0.04mm, spec is from 0.01 to 0.06mm Based on this pump seems to be still fine. Not sure but I should skip pump rebuild at this point? Front band seems to still have enough friction material. Also, I removed snap rings and checked frictions and metal plates. Front clutch seemed fine, I could even see serials/dates stamped on them. No burn marks on steels. Tried to verify clearance, not sure if I did it correctly but got smth around 2.9mm (spec is 1.70 to 3.40 mm). Rear clutch is barely within spec (1.10mm, spec is 0.64-1.14mm), I have seen 5-6 spots around 5mm in diameter on steels that look like burn marks, frictions seem fine but some of them are a bit darker (blackish) around center than those from front clutch. Could not see those aluminium pistons from clutches as I haven't compressed them yet.. Side that I could see now had scratches but again I couldn't feel them with fingernails. After removal of front servo and accumulator piston I did not find any damage to piston or bores in trans case. However, I did find some damage to sun gear shell and front clutch drum, not sure if this is significant: Almost all teeth had these marks, they look beaten not like a piece broke off even though it looks like that in pictures.
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Regarding delivery times, it took between 3-4 weeks thru USPS Priority international. I guess in normal situation it would've arrived at least 1 week sooner
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Yup, I do have 11/32. I couldn't find any info on those transfer plate balls in manuals but I found a manual for Transgo shift kits and all balls except 11/32 are listed as same (1/4"). I received SONNAX pressure regulator valve and manual valve cuple of months ago but was to lazy to take the transmission apart Replaced those already, but with the recent findings I'm probably gonna need some more parts apart from missing check balls
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Thanks Moses. Will post back once I finish teardown. Regarding check balls, based on FSM that I have there are 9 balls total - 7 in upper part of valve body (the ones that you sent) and two more below separator plate.. Those two are missing. All of them are some sort of plastic. I couldn't find any info regarding their size but based on bores they seem to be 1/4". I googled a bit and found kits for 10$ of sonnax plastic 1/4" check balls. I was thinking about buying that set and replacing all of them except that 11/32". Here is the URL for that set: https://www.sonnax.com/parts/1689-checkball . Only doubt that I have is that there is no a904 or 32RH listed, but I guess they are made of same/similar material like the ones I originaly had in valve body.
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Hi! It took a while but I finally got the transmission out. Still it was working ok (no slippage, pressure around normal) but noise became more and more frequent. When I dropped the pan, other than gray sludge that was present I also saw some chunks that are either aluminium or brass (they don't stick to the magnet). I disasembled, cleaned and inspected valve body. Everything seems normal there, but two check balls (rear servo and rear clutch) were missing?? There is also an option that I lost them, but I know for sure that this valve body was opened at least once before and I really took a good look at the channels before cleaning out the remaining atf. Also one of the check balls had different color so I'm not sure if someone before lost 3 and added that one. Anyway, I inspected torque converter and hub and they seem fine, no abnormal scratches (can't feel them with the fingernails). Couldn't take a good look at pump bushing but it doesn't seem in bad shape (will know better once I remove pump assembly). I'm wondering where this metal chunks might came from? Afaik, only aluminium part beside valve body is transmission housing. Some of the shavings are black on one side and bright yellow on other.
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Hi Moses, I recently got Sonnax valves. I plan to drop trans pan soon and replace them while removing anti-drainback valve and verifying band adjustment. I still have one concern - TCC. That rattling issue is still there - but it seems to have some sort of pattern. Noise only happens just after trans downshifts to 2nd if I put heavy load on engine when the TCC is engaged and trans is in 3rd speed (not every time, but it happens only under those circumstances). If I put trans in position 2 I'm unable to reproduce issue. Also, if I disconnect TCC relay so TCC never engages, I'm unable to reproduce it. TCC might be related to this but not locking up or upshifting to 3rd also means higher rpms which might prevent the issue. If I'm going uphill, TCC won't disengage until I push throttle pedal around half way. It seems that it takes too much throttle for it to unlock when under load which chokes the engine since I have 3.07 gears and 33s. Another thing I noticed on flat roads - after TCC locks, if I release throttle pedal and apply light throttle afterwards engine RPMS flare up to 1500 rpm and then drop to 1200. It doesn't feel like slip - it looks like TCC disengaged after releasing throttle, and once throttle is applied again it did not lock immediately. If I disconnect TCC relay none of this will happen and part throttle downshift seems to be much easier and better. I'm not sure if this is normal behavior - I thought that TCC will unlock immediately when vehicle is not cruising and is under load. If I understand well, TCC solenoid is controlled by PCM and powered thru relay. TPS, vehicle speed and coolant temp are main inputs for PCM. I verified all inputs with scanner, and TV cable is adjusted. I guess all variables related to transmission itself are OK since it behaves perfectly when TCC relay is disconnected. I cannot verify when PCM activates TCC solenoid since that information is not present on scanner. I was thinking about connecting light bulb to relay terminal so that I can see under what circumstances lockup happens. Is it possible that PCM controls relay correctly but something in valve body is causing this abnormal throttle to unlock (if it is abnormal at all)?
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Couple of updates on this thread. I did notice some lag during initial start. Once vehicle has been sitting overnight on slight incline, it would take around a second or two to get into reverse or drive. After that it is almost instant. I ordered Sonnax manual and pressure regulator valve and will install them and remove adb valve completely as it might be causing restriction. If that doesn't solve the problem, I'll do complete rebuild once trans totally fails :)
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I really appreciate all of your replies. I did remove valve body (but did not disassemble it), and this rattle in Park happened sometime after that (not sure if it happened immediately as it is much more noticeable in cold weather). As far as I know, pump was never removed. I will check filter/valve body for possible leaks. In case that it doesn't solve the problem I will probably drop the transmission again and check front bushing and front pump gear clearance. Yesterday I saw that fluid level was 1/3 inch above MAX (checked in neutral after driving 30 miles). I read somewhere that fluid above max will be churned by planetary - which in turn creates bubbles. So this might be the reason why rattle on low throttle appeared, as it was not present before. However this does not explain noise in Park as nothing moves at that point. Anyway, I plan to keep this Jeep for years so at some point transmission rebuild will be necessary. I think I found a good deal on 32RH rebuild kit on ebay for 160$. It contains Red Eagle frictions, Kolene steels, front band, pump bushing and all gaskets/seals. Same supplier also has Sonnax manual and PR valve. I'm still waiting for a reply if they sell pump rebuild kit - I saw they have kit for A518 with front bushing, gear set and seals for 50$. This is a good option for international orders as one supplier provides everything thus minimizing shipping costs, and shipping time is OK. Here is a link to it, please remove it if it is not compliant with forum rules: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fits-Dodge-A904-TF-6-Transmission-Red-Eagle-Performance-Master-L2-Rebuild-Kit/202573760811 Thank you for your help, I will post results here once I finish working on this issue. I'm an IT guy so if there is anything from that domain that you need help with, feel free to message me
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Forgot to mention, gauge is not liquid filled, I'm not sure if there is any dampening.
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Well, I did rear servo pressure test and stall test. This time I put jacks under both wheels and under differential case. Vehicle was running at 1600-1650 rpm in reverse, and I disconnected throttle valve cable. The results with trans fluid warmed up are following: 1. Stall test: 2100-2200 rpm. No rattling or any unusual noise. 2. Rear servo: needle bouncing between 150-160psi. When moving lever pressure keeps rising but in the end it starts to quickly bounce between 200-300psi. Occasionally it stops around 250-260psi but it is only fraction of a second. I'm not sure if this is gauge related or pump is unable to keep steady pressure... Even after running test for 10 mins results were always the same, so I'm not sure if this is air in gauge/hose or pump. No leakage at test port this time Bands were adjusted about a year ago.
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Moses, thanks for this detailed guide. I finally found some time to do hydraulic test. The specs for my transmission is 54-60psi and up to 90-96psi line pressure at full throttle in position "2" and 1000 rpm. I only did this test since main suspect is pump - if I understood well this test is enough to detect failing pump. I could not find any details if this test should be performed with transmission fluid hot or cold. I put a jack underneath and removed one rear wheel, connected gauge to trans line pressure port, disconnected throttle cable, started engine and set it idle at 1000rpm with my SnapOn MT2500. Unfortunately I only had 500psi gauge, and I had a bit of dripping at line port connection (was unable to seal this), I'm not sure if this can affect readings. Gauge scale is not good enough for this task but needle seems to be between 50-55psi and a hair under or at 90psi at full throttle. I'm also attaching a video (because of angle between camera and gauge readings might look higher/lower than they really are). In best case scenario, these values are close to or at lower limits. Is this a sign of bad pump that needs replacement or these values would be even less in that case? Video link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ3zCpgfmKs
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Thanks a lot Moses, all of this makes perfect sense... I really can't thank you enough for helping me on this. I guess I'll have to face the inevitable Since I'm from Europe, ordering/finding spare parts is quite problematic and expensive because of high shipping costs and duties, so I will first try to determine the scope of the damage. For now I don't feel any slippage (even when the noise is present while driving). I will do hydraulic tests and check if line pressure is below spec (probably is). If pressure is low and pump is shot - do I have to replace converter too? I was thinking about replacing entire pump/seals, flushing cooler and reusing converter. In case of some wonder where pressure is still within specs - could I get away with only front bushing/seals replacement for now? In this scenario, I'd rather do pump when time comes for entire trans overhaul In any case, Sonnax upgrades are a must. Now, even replacing manual valve would eliminate that noise in Park, but still that would only mask real problem until I repeat that low speed scenario. I will keep you updated, someone might find this useful. Thanks again for helping me on this and multiple other occasions. Your forums might not have membership base like some other ones, but it has invaluable knowledge and content thanks to you.
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Well I finally found some time to check up on this. To be honest, inside vehicle it sounds like rattle while on this video it sounds more like pump. Here is the link to video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGtHNTRaNAI This is cold start, and after starting vehicle I kept it around 2000rpm. The clunk you hear occasionally is me switching from Park to Neutral - instantly as I switch to Neutral (or any other position) noise disappears. As soon as I switch back to Park it is there again. Noise seems a bit more silent after driving couple of miles. I took it for a 60 miles ride. Since I have 3.07 gearing and 33 inch tires, when I'm cruising it is around 1300rpm. If I cruise for 5-10 mins and then give it more throttle on uphill (so it downshifts to 2nd and 2000+rpm) - same noise appears but after 3-4 seconds it is gone and won't happen again unless I repeat the same steps. Last time I had transmission out, I drove it 3 miles with 1,5 pints of fluid less than max.. I'm not sure if this made the problem worse, but noise in Park was already there before that.
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Thanks Moses. I'm aware of the design flaw. I will test fluid circulation after drainback valve and after cooler to check for restrictions. The only symptom that is missing so that I can be 100% sure that valve is the problem is delayed engagement. I don't feel any delay, even after 3-4 days... Could bushing damage cause huge damage in other parts of the transmission system? I'm thinking about scratches on it, not complete failure and breakage. I took some photos while I was doing a vehicle rebuild and I can't see any huge damage on front bushing, maybe slight scratches that to me seem normal for 150k vehicle. I will try to make a video of the noise and put it here so it can be helpful for someone else with the same issue.
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Hi, I have 32RH trans in 1995 4.0 YJ 150k miles. It works perfectly except there are some noises (probably trans related) that recently started and bother me: After Jeep has been sitting overnight - when I start it in Park, there is some rattling/grinding noise that starts around 2k rpm. This is more pronounced when it is cold outside, like 35F. Noise only occurs in Park and only on 2k+ rpms. I'm not 100% sure that it is gone once everything heats up, it could be that it is just more silent but present. I think this is 100% coming from trans because changing the gear eliminates the noise. Noise when driving - this happened 3-4 times so far. I was driving on a highway and since I have 3.07 and 33s engine was working at 1500 rpm or below all the time. When I got to the incline, I pushed the pedal and engine went to around 2k rpm. Nose similar to first one started, but after 5-6 seconds it was gone and after that no matter how much I pushed the pedal I could not replicate it. It seems to happen only after driving on low rpm for a long time and then pushing the pedal. I could not feel any drivability issues when this happened. I'm not 100% sure this comes from trans but it sounds like that and is definitely related to rpms.. If it was engine I guess I'd have bigger issues. Trans was never rebuilt. Since I did complete restoration of vehicle a year ago I took transmission out and did following: Adjusted linkages/cables Replaced all seals Changed entire fluid/filter Adjusted both bands Cleaned governor and removed burrs from its housing Cleaned valve body - seemed ok In the meantime I had to take it out twice because flexplate reluctor ring was slightly out of round and was throwing off CPS signal. Since all replacement plates had issues (poor manufacturing) I took original one to the machine shop where they grinded it to spec. However, I'm not sure if they balanced it. Having all of this in mind I thought about a couple of things about noise no.1: Bad check valve - converter fluid drains back. Since converter is not being filled in park, something rattles. I excluded the pump from the equation since it works in any gear. Problem with this is that even after filling the converter in Neutral (and noise goes away immediately after shifting to neutral) noise still occurs in park. Flexplate bolts hitting the dust shield - shield seems a bit bent. However this does not explain why noise is in park but not in neutral. Issues with torque converter - on stall test it was around 2k rpm which by FSM seems to be OK, so I'm not sure about it.. Am I missing something here?
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Well, rotor was not turning at all... So I removed distributor and three tooth were missing from dist gear. I'm going to put in another one, remove oil pan and collect missing chunks. After that I will put new oil. Should I do anything else (eg. gears on camshaft?) next question would be-why this happened in the first place? I have replaced all lifters 5 days ago, could it be that there was not enough oil reaching the gears? UPDATE: Distributor shaft is frozen, stuck. Won't move left or right with distributor taken out of engine
