Moses Ludel

tom58c...Thanks for posting your issue with a thorough accounting of what you have done to date and the tests you have run. I would pressure check the AW4's hydraulic system, following the factory guidelines. Given that the clutch and brake apply pressures seem to be inconsistent, you need to check the fluid pressures in the individual circuits. These conclusive tests are not difficult to perform, and it sounds like you're adept at getting to the bottom of a problem. From the description of your current tests, it sounds like the transmission would "fail" a simple stall test in reverse, maybe in the forward gears, too. Given the free-wheeling symptoms, I would not run a stall test, as damage to the transmission's clutch and brake units could result. A bigger concern is that testing and driving the vehicle with these symptoms can actually cause direct clutch and brake damage. Friction discs are fragile and only work well with normal line pressures. The apply pressure for clutch and braking units must be high enough to facilitate quick, minimal-slip shifts. The AW4 has a history of providing a very long service life, and this is due to significant line pressure and proper shifting patterns over the long haul. If you need more details on running a hydraulic test, I would be happy to provide them. If you need simple stall speed test procedures, I can furnish the steps. However, I again emphasize that such a stall test with the current symptoms could cause severe damage. As a footnote, have you changed the transmission filter? Could the transmission be starving for fluid? Is the filter not sealing at the valve body? A clogged or loose filter can cause a large pressure drop or allow debris to infiltrate the valves and precision fit parts in the valve body. Moses

This would be a most unusual fit between the pins and the collar slot. It is likely the legs are twisted—uniformly. If you place this shift fork into the collar's slot, it should be apparent that this is not the correct fit. The pins' shoulders typically ride parallel to the collar slot edges...Make sense? Please furnish a photo of the collar and its slot arrangement. I'd like to confirm this parts relationship... To your knowledge, has this assembly ever been apart before? The grease looks "original" for a 1967 vintage winch. Can you obtain a service manual (reprint/PDF or whatever) or service details from Ramsey? They may find your project of interest, especially with the exposure at these forums. Do any members have details like a parts or service manual for this winch? Moses

From the thickness of the leaf plates, it looks like they are right. The 8-stack is a more modern approach and better overall. Your weight at the front is more constant, if you pull a small trailer or stow goods in the back for a trip, the rear springs will pick up the bulk of that additional weight. Less should be more here. It's about the material, leaf thickness and curvature of the spring leafs. Clips and pins will be important for maintaining lateral spring alignment. Fresh spring eye bushings will make a world of difference in steering control, noise and stability. Be sure your upper shackle bushings are in good condition. Moses

Oh, boy, Postal Service issues...They usually get this right eventually, at least there's a tracking number these days and bar code...Can understand why you sent USPO, the rate would be less for a package the size of an empty motorcycle barrel. UPS and FedEx are spendy these days. OnTrac has surprised me with its prompt service—but to limited zones of service. Moses

If you ask "the right questions" and get knowledgeable responses from the shop, you'll be more confident about the process... Are you doing the 8-leaf or 10? Moses

As for the results from re-arching springs, I've had very good results from quality spring shops. Granted, this is a metallurgical art form, and the heat treatment process must be right on. The shop you describe sounds like "old school", and that works for me! The trick is a specialist who knows spring material and is willing to be thorough. As for comparison with "new springs", I'd take my chances on a quality spring rebuild over aftermarket off-shore, non-descript sourced new springs these days...Canadian and U.S. steel is the best in North America, and your OE springs are plenty old enough to be from one of these sources. Moses

Forman, I spent two to three minutes apiece fiddling with your KLR images. "Editing" is always subjective, and you might approach the edits differently than I did, that's understood. Compare the images ("before" from above and "after" below), and you will see how much latitude exists in an image that has captured high and low exposure highlights, whether or not the lows are visible in the original image. Obviously, there was "hidden imagery" in your two photos, or there would be no chance of raising the exposure value and keying up the dark areas. Here are the two pics from above after basic treatment in Capture NX2: Note that these file sizes increased more than three-fold with the edit. They then were compressed down to the "web" size seen above. (Each looked very sharp at over 5000 pixel width, reduced here to 800 pixels width maximum when fully opened.) The primary function that I used is the unique "U-Point" technology. Moses

I like the eights, by appearance, anyway. They are not the thin, fragile leaf plates found in the 10-leaf stacks. Springs evolved, and eventually, we had nice "reverse arch", wide and long, two-leaf front springs like GM introduced on later beam axle K-trucks. Personally, I'm more concerned about ride quality, rebound, load capacity and resilience over time. The early thin-leaf springs would fatigue and crack, rode stiffly, and they were not as responsive to "progressive" load resistance as the later designs. Your shock absorbers will be much more function, and important, with the 8-leaf springs, and the ride quality and axle articulation should be better—providing you use the correct shocks. Moses

Ah, one more thing we share: an appreciation for the Nikon FE2! This bulletproof 35mm film camera served my professional career from the early '80s through 2004. The photos that went through these bodies were innumerable! I had two over time, the first one purchased used from Nelson's Photo at San Diego, the unit was barely used by a San Diego Union newspaper staffer and traded-in with a batch of cameras to Nelson's Photo. Wonderful cameras... I'll grab a couple of your KLR .jpg photos and fiddle with them in Nikon Capture NX2...For digital Nikon or even other makes of cameras, the NX2 program works far better than Photoshop in many ways—and is much more user friendly! Adobe has a knack for creating "career" learning curves around its software. NX2 has features that outstrip Photoshop, especially the ability to make changes without the cumbersome "layers" approach. Stay tuned! Moses

I looked at several vintage Jeep sources, you likely did, too. Surprised not to find these tin caps, they were available years ago. Checked the Crown catalog, a primary supplier to others, no listing. Try a call to Jon Compton at Border Parts, Spring Valley, CA. Jon has nearly a half-century of experience with vintage Jeep parts. If anyone has these caps, Jon would. Otherwise, Jon will help network to a source. Border Parts' contact information: Border Parts, Jon Compton, Owner 3875 Bancroft Dr, Spring Valley, CA 91977 (619) 461-0171 Please share my regards with Jon... P.S.: I-H also used the T90/T86 transmissions in the earlier Scout models. Another possible parts source.

Thanks, again, Forman, for your photo contributions, including these latest KLR details! You also turned a dead turkey into valid art...Very nice work! I've been a "professional" photographer since the 1970s, with over 16,000 published photos in magazines (illustrations, spreads and covers), newspapers plus my seven tech books. I began with film and stubbornly did not "give it up" until 2003-2004, when publishers simply refused to handle (or couldn't scan) B&W negatives and color transparencies. This was the line in the sand and my turn toward digital photography, which I now "embrace" wholly, though I keep my Mamiya Sekor 645 camera available for fine art/photography (making digital scans from film). My trusty 35mm Nikon FE2 bodies were unceremoniously retired in 2004. Having a film background is a great teacher. There is no latitude for exposure error, and each shot must count (or you will, quite literally, pay for it!). Film teaches texture, color grading, exposure values and every other principle of photography without "avoiding" the process with microprocessors and sensors. My first professional camera was a Mamiya-Sekor C330 twin reflex, and I shot everything from wildlife to motocross racing with it. This required patience and setting up for each photo—unnecessary with high-speed frame digital cameras. My latest D7100 Nikon (sought for HD video capability) is a DSLR capable of 7-frames per second sharp photo shooting plus time lapse refinements. It shoots terrific HD video at 1080P, the main reason I acquired the system. I can also use my 30 years of Nikkor lenses with this body plus the two new VR lenses (my first) that came with the package. My concern is that folks have become lax about focus and depth of field with the "auto-focus" and "auto-exposure" features in new cameras. I never used an auto-focus lens prior to 2003, zoom, focus and exposure were all manual. Fortunately, I haven't lost those manual skills, though I'm rusty from disuse. My wakeup call is that true HD video and cinema filming at the professional level is done with manual focus and manual use of exposure...So, I'm heading down that road again! As for your digital photography, I do have a suggestion for photo editing. Since my later cameras are Nikon (other than the 645 Mayima without digital backer capability), Nikon's Capture NX2 software came to my attention with the purchase of a Nikon D100 and subsequent D300 camera. I began using NX2 for basic exposure improvements and have since discovered its exceptional versatility for improving nearly any digital image...This is a luxury for a traditional film photographer, I must admit! I recall hundreds of Fujichrome 100 professional shoot images that went into the trash can due to .5-1.0 F-stop exposure error... If you're curious what two minutes of NX2 can do for an image, I can snag a couple of your .jpg images from the KLR photos and play with them for comparison... Moses

JohnF...My shop manuals for the Jeep Universal during the V-6 era show an illustration of a "late" CJ-5 and CJ-6 rear spring with 9 leafs. The front spring illustrations are ambiguous, one showing a deep stack (like the 10 you see) of thin leafs, the other with a modern 5-leaf (thicker per leaf) stack design. If Kaiser/Jeep was that confused, no wonder you're having trouble finding information! I have always turned to traditional spring reconditioning shops for proper rates and stack builds. They have more data and experience, usually choosing a spring rate that suits the customers' driving styles and vehicle intent. I would not lose energy here other than to get a spring and load rate that provide decent highway (non-buckboard) ride and adequate load capacity for your plans. National Spring in the San Diego Area built springs for me in the 'eighties for a number of magazine project vehicles. They would be an excellent resource for information, too. You may have "old" spring shops in your area that have rebuilt their share of vintage Jeep CJ springs, another avenue for information and insight. Moses

If you can live with drum rear brakes (like the CJs with the Model 20), this AMC 15 should hold up. The hub/shaft arrangement is similar to the 20, and you'll now be able to assure safety here. As they say, your AMC Eagle is a true "driver"! With AWD, too...Fun, Rich... Moses

Possibly V-6 application...There would be even more torque on the rear springs. Could be to counter sag at the LR spring...Again, the leaf plate thickness, length of each leaf and such make the spring rate, not just the number of leaves. Could have been for better ride quality with softer rebound per leaf and "overload" capacity when loaded. Or, this could be the anticipation of trailer toting with the V-6. Moses

Boy, JohnF, aluminum threads this old can be scary and often lead to Heli-Coil or Time-Sert repairs. You're wise to be conservative. I'm assuming all threads are USS/course and 1/4", 5/16" and 3/8"? If so, here are some basic, maximum torque guidelines that make sense with SAE fine and course aluminum threads (courtesy of Allpar.com) and both Grade 5 and Grade 8 bolts: I agree with the chart findings and note these maximums for Grade 5 bolts into aluminum threads (see .jpg charts above). For Grade 8 bolts, see the charts: 1/4" threads: 6 ft-lbs 5/16" threads: 12 ft-lbs 3/8" threads: 20 ft-lbs Use blue Loctite 242 or an anaerobic sealant on threads—I never use red 271 Loctite on aluminum threads! Red can lead to threads coming out with the bolt on the next removal. If threads feel "soft", do not continue tightening—the aluminum threads will pull out next...The 242 will prevent back-off and also provides torque/strength over time. Try this and let us know how it "feels" for tightness... Trust this helps, JohnF! Moses

Forman, your photos are always tops! We'll have to talk about digital editing, I have some interesting and subtle things to share that work for me. Maybe there's room for a "photography forum" where everyone can share photography details? You're doing a very thorough job here and sharing some major concerns with other motorcycle engine builders. The Kawasaki will be a highly reliable cycle when you finish! This is exciting. Thanks for taking the time to offer these details, tech steps and such great photographs... Moses

Rich, I moved the topic on Model 20 AMC rear axle hub installation to the 1972-86 Jeep CJ forum...You'll find my lengthy reply and a PDF there. The Jeep owners will benefit, too. Here's a direct link to that post: http://forums.4wdmechanix.com/topic/277-rear-wheel-hub-installation-on-amcjeep-cj-with-the-model-20-rear-axle/ Trust this is helpful to you and other AMC rear axle/hub techs! Moses

The axle shaft tapers have "teeth" that cut into the smooth surface of a new rear wheel hub casting. There is a minimum beginning axle shaft nut torque on Jeep CJs of 250 ft-lbs. For a new hub, this is followed by tightening the axle shaft nut further until you achieve the factory-specified stick-out length of the axle shaft threads (beyond the outer edge of the wheel hub). Note: I've attached the factory procedure in a PDF for those interested in the Model 20 AMC Jeep CJ axle shaft hub installation: AMC Model 20 Axle Hub Installation.pdf See your factory service manual, it will describe this procedure for the Model 15. For the Jeep CJs, I also go into this installation in-depth within my 1972-86 Jeep CJ Rebuilder's Manual (Bentley Publishers). Note the way you take this thread stick-out measurement... The amount of torque required on the hub nut can include the use of a 3/4" square drive impact socket and a long handle added to a 3/4" drive breaker bar. I have used the handle from a hydraulic floor jack (very carefully!) to gain enough leverage with some installations. Other installs require far less force than this. It's always about the correct thread stick-out measurement after tightening the nut. Those attempting to achieve the correct thread stick-out length with an impact gun, even a very strong one, may be surprised to find that the impact force is not sufficient to get the hub properly drawn onto the serrated axle shaft taper. All of this said, the AMC factory recommendation is a new hub casting if/when the hub shows any kind of damage. If you notice, brake work does not require hub removal, and the hub should, ideally, not be removed unless the axle shaft outer bearing requires replacement. Many do get away with hub reuse if there is no damage to the hub taper or axle shaft "teeth". If the hub has spun on the axle shaft, there is damage—the hub must be replaced. The hub and axle shaft positioning should be marked before the hub is removed. If you cannot or do not want to install a new hub, and the old hub appears okay, align the hub at its original position on the axle shaft. Tighten the axle shaft nut to the initial torque. I take this a step further and use the thread stick-out method to assure a safe installation. Once you have installed a hub to an AMC axle shaft in this manner, you will understand why Jeep owners who do not practice this method wind up with the hub spinning on the axle shaft's tapered end or, in the worst case scenario, the wheel hub and wheel/tire assembly can come loose! There are aftermarket "one-piece" replacement axle shafts available for the Jeep CJ 5x5.5" bolt circle hubs. These one-piece shafts have a more conventional outer flange for the wheel studs and mounting the brake drum and wheel/tire assembly. There are several suppliers for these Jeep CJ axle shafts. However, like you share, your Eagle wheel bolt circle is smaller than a CJ Jeep pattern, and the axle shaft lengths are likely different between the CJ and your Eagle. (Inner axle shaft splines may differ, too.) As a footnote, the key and keyway on the AMC axle shaft are not intended for withstanding the driving torque at the axle shaft. This key is mainly to facilitate the installation of the axle shaft nut in the manner I've just described. (It may provide a very marginal safety factor, but looking at it, you can see that the size of this key cannot withstand axle torque or loads.) With a new hub, you are actually "cutting" teeth/splines into the smooth hub casting taper as you tighten the axle nut securely. By securely, the only safe and trusted method is thread stick-out length. Any attempt to use a torque figure (other than the starting torque of 250 ft-lbs for the CJ Jeep Model 20 axle shaft nuts) is futile. Actual torque setting can vary from not much past the 250 ft-lbs minimum to the long handle leverage I mention. Related information: Anyone remember the vintage Volkswagen air-cooled era rear axle shaft nuts and the use of a long leverage bar for tightening? AMC is not alone here. And there are the tapered axle shafts on vintage Jeep, Ford, Studebaker, I-H and Chrysler cars and trucks that require a hub puller to remove the wheel hub and brake drum. If you need that kind of puller for an AMC axle, get pointers from my OTC Hub Tool video, click here. When Jeep owners do not follow this hub tightening procedure on the Model 20 axle in a CJ, and especially if they run oversized tires, the hub will spin lose. This can cause severe parts damage or even the loss of the hub/wheel assembly. Check your shop manual for the AMC AWD Eagle. I'm curious what the thread stick-out measurement is for the Model 15... Moses

If aftermarket springs are a guideline, 1955-71 springs should be the same. I would check with a traditional automotive spring shop for eye-to-eye center lengths, leaf count and individual leaf thickness. There were military stacks and civilian stacks. Also, the M38A1 military frames had the anchor at the front of the front springs, shackle to the rear of the front springs. My '55 CJ-5 was also this design—stock. These must have been M38A1 frames on the earliest CJ-5 assemblies. Spring rate can differ per spring set, and leaf count is often nebulous. A spring shop uses leaf count, leaf length and the individual spring leaf rates as a guide. Leaf thickness, length and the spring leaf material will create different load rates. I have always installed either freshened or new springs on these early Jeep models. The OE springs tend to torque sag to the left side of the vehicle over time. If you do install used springs, you will likely see a sag to the driver's side unless the springs have been swapped side-to-side. Springs are "perishable", and they lose tensile over time. At the least, you might consider having the springs "rebuilt", which consists of disassembly, cleaning, shaping and re-heat treatment. Moses

As a footnote to all of this, Rich, why do you want to replace the 7.5" AMC Model 15 rear axle with a 7.562" D35 axle? Is it the axle shaft/hub design? Or the popularity of the D35 in modern Jeep vehicles? What is the gain—if any? The stamina of the AMC 15 should be comparable to a D35. Model 15 axles, as you share, have a reliable track record in AMC cars back to the early 1960s (likely post-dates the closed torque tube axles found in earlier AMC cars). If the issue is the axle shaft/hub configuration, I have some helpful pointers on how to keep the hubs in place and not have issues here... Moses

I'd like to see the parts from each unit side-by-side. Also like to see if the AMC 15 differential carrier will actually fit a D35 axle housing. This would include not only the bearing sizes but also the bores for the axle shafts and the ring gear bolt pattern. We need to also take into account the ring gear inside flange diameter and the overall width of the carrier flanges. The space between the carrier bearing positions would have to be the same, too. We know already that the shim locations for the carrier bearing preload and ring gear backlash are different...The pinion flange and U-joint type/size also need consideration. A driveline length issue or U-joint differences may require a new driveline build. The bearing size similarities are intriguing but not yet conclusive for parts interchangeability. We'll dig deeper, Rich. Moses

Thanks for posting the illustration, Rich...There are distinct similarities between the AMC Model 20 and your AMC 15 rear axle. They obviously were the basic AMC axle design, common to each other yet sized differently—like a Dana, Corporate or Ford axle. The D35 and these AMC axles differ in that the Dana axle places the carrier shim packs between the carrier bearing cones and the flanges on the differential case. This requires the nuisance bearing removal to stack shims properly, or the use of bearing cone proxies for trial fitment, like I talk about in my Jeep books and at the magazine. The Model 15 and Model 20 have the shim/spacers placed between the axle housing seats and the backside of the carrier bearing cups. This makes the carrier bearing preload and ring gear backlash adjustment considerably easier since the new bearing cones seat against the differential case flanges. An AMC differential carrier can be installed and removed with the carrier bearings in place. (You remove the bearing caps and carefully pry the carrier out; tilt bearing cups carefully during installation as you set the correct bearing preload.) The AMC axles are much easier to set up than a Dana. I'd go the extra step and compare the bearing sizes for both the pinion and carrier cups and cones...Then compare the lengths of the pinion shafts and their spline arrangements. From drawings, the AMC axles (beyond just their axle shaft outer bearing and hub design differences) have distinctions from a Dana design. Let's confirm whether parts interchange. Moses

They had differentials, what we would call "open". The differential with spider or pinion gears pre-dates the Ford Model T. It would not have been feasible to turn a vehicle on asphalt without a differential. There were chain drive systems early on, some lasted on trucks into the WWI era...Would be interesting to see the patent date on the open diff assembly... Moses

Again, this E-brake drum could be fixed with either Weld Mold 26C high tensile brazing rod (after V-ing or round carbide tip grinding to the root of the crack) or actual TIG cast iron welding with Weld Mold Company's 700 and 750 filler rod. You found that used parts were cheaper than this kind of repair in your earlier need, perhaps you'll find a "good used" drum...If welded or brazed, the drum will require re-surfacing and truing, which may be the case even with a used replacement drum. Moses

The only way to go and a significant time saver! A soda blaster in addition to the glass bead rounds out the cleaning tools. Soda is great for aluminum carburetor bodies and other parts that cannot tolerate abrasive. Moses