William H Posted December 11, 2016 Share Posted December 11, 2016 Moses, I know this is a controversial topic, but this may be the place for discussion. I am interested in participating in a JJUSA event here in KY. One of the vehicle requirements is that the overall lift including any body lift not exceed 6". The lift on my 85 CJ7 will be real close to the limit. I have inquired JJUSA by phone and email trying to find out how and what parameters they will be using to determine vehicle lift. JJUSA has not responded, leading me to believe they don't have quantifiable parameters or are afraid to tell me in writing. I am concerned of showing up to the event after paying $500 and being disqualified and turned away without a refund. With all that being said, Is there a measurement that can be taken from axle centerline to a point on the fenders or body tub? My sheet metal and fender flares are pretty much stock, however not much stock underneath. SOA, Dana 44's front and back, reversed spring hangers, modified shock mounts, 1" body lift, etc. Thanks William Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted December 11, 2016 Administrators Share Posted December 11, 2016 Hi, William...The strictest concept of "overall lift" is the distance from the ground to the bottom of the body tub sill. The comparison would be measurements of a stone stock Jeep versus your Jeep CJ7. However, JJ might simply be suggesting a manufacturers' stated lift, totaling 6" maximum. This could be, let's say, a 4" chassis/suspension lift plus a 2" body lift. As for real lift, there's a wild card, of course, in what size tires you are running. A 6" lift with 35" tires versus 37" or 40" would be an entirely different situation, so the only "real" criterion would be the body sill or tub height. I'm not clear about the JJ policy but would imagine they are realistic about tire diameter options. The rule likely applies to the manufacturers' rated height increase. You do need to confirm this, though. What height and method of lift does your Jeep CJ7 have? What tire diameter? Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William H Posted December 11, 2016 Author Share Posted December 11, 2016 Moses, Thanks for your reply. It is my understanding from the JJ website the 6" lift refers only to suspension and body lifts. I have included a clip from their website. "Body lifts/suspension lifts up to six inches (combined) are permitted. Tires over 37 inches are not permitted. We recommend removing running board for higher rated trails. Snowplow frames are not permitted. Participants will be turned away at registration should they exceed these limits." My jeep was built by JC Fab in Sylmar, CA from 2003 to 2006. I understand they are now known as Higherground Fab & Offroad. It is a Spring Over Axle conversion. With the sway bar unpinned, this suspension setup articulates really well . I have most all the original invoices totaling nearly $40K from JC FAB, but they don't identify the suspension parts. It simply states "provide and install suspension lift and axle perches". The front spring hangers have "High Traction suspension" stamped on them. The big question is what are the stock parameters? I measured 29 1/8" from the ground to the lowest outside edge on the body tub directly below the door threshold. Measured axle centerline above ground including tire wear and tire pressure is 16 3/8" (285/75R17). This leaves 12 3/4" between axle centerline and lowest outside body tub edge. I guess without the stock parameters and without a response from JJUSA knowing how they will score this lift, I cannot risk $500 only to be turned away at registration without a chance for a refund. William Correction the spring hangers are stamped "Full Traction suspension". Appears to be 2" lift shackle reversal kit #FTS2500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted December 12, 2016 Administrators Share Posted December 12, 2016 Pretty clear, William...Sounds like you can have up to six inches of combined manufacturer-rated lift and run tires to 37" diameter. A spring over lift is more than four inches, then you can add the 2" lift shackle reverse kit. Likely there is even more lift in the leaf springs if aftermarket. I've never seen aftermarket springs that have the same arch as stock springs. They always have some lift arch. Add that to the mix. We're reverse engineering this lift package. You might have fudge factor with your tires, which I have pegged around 34" diameter, dependent upon manufacturer. Is that enough to compensate for spring arch, the spring over plus a shackle reverse kit lift? You need 3" of fudge factor if they allow 37" diameter tires. You could try for a nod from JJUSA by submitting some photos and measurements of your Jeep. If they are sticklers, you're likely on the fence or very close. The 1" body lift could be the deal breaker if the judges are particular...On the other hand, the 34" diameter tires may be considered politically correct. I fully understand the need to avoid losing $500 at the event gate and getting turned away in front of the group. Both would be costly—materially and emotionally... Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William H Posted December 12, 2016 Author Share Posted December 12, 2016 Great news Moses! Finally made contact with JJUSA and through description and pictures they gave me a green light. Seems like I am not the only one having trouble with this parameter. JJUSA has all but abandoned the lift limitation. They are now placing nearly all the weight on tire size except for EXTREME and outrageous lifts. Your estimate of my lift concurs with mine. I knew I would be on the fence or slightly over. A DMV search of my jeep shows that it had 3 owners since JC FAB did the upgrades. It made its way from California to Texas to Colorado and now to Kentucky. I believe it has now found a home for many years to come. Being a 3rd generation family jeep owner and since I am now retired, reverse engineering and documenting all the modifications, TLC, and PM has become a labor of love for me. Thanks William Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted December 14, 2016 Administrators Share Posted December 14, 2016 Enjoy that JJUSA, William!...The Jeep looks great and has fairly common modifications. One thought from a safety vantage is that you need a wide track width to compensate for the chassis lift and SOA. Hard to tell the track width and tread center-line width from your inset photo of the CJ7. There are time-honored, simple math formulas for altered height (lifts) and the new track width needs (explained in my Jeep Owner's Bible since the First Edition). With the funding that went into this vehicle's build and lift approaches, the track width, rim width, rim offset and tire diameter should each have been considered. Any photos would be appreciated by members, William...A tale of your JJUSA adventure would fit nicely at the travel section of the forums! Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60Bubba Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 William, I too picked up a former California Jeep. Mine now lives in Memphis, TN but will likely settle just north of Cincinnati. Hope you lucked into a rust free Calie special as I did. The Jeep Jamboree event sounds fun. I believe we had one near us in Arkansas this past year at Hot Springs ORV (formerly Superlift) When my little guy is a few years older, I want to take him to one also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William H Posted December 19, 2016 Author Share Posted December 19, 2016 Bubba, Nice looking jeep. I was real lucky with my find. Even though the chassis has 283K miles, it is a "10" on the rust free scale. Very few OEM CJ frames and bodies left in this end of the country without rust. I am continuing my reverse engineering and documentation project and discovered this week that I have a Bigelow CV joint in my front drive shaft. Nobody in this country has ever heard of one and there is very little chatter on the forums about them. They were touted as a long life high angle solution back about 10 years ago. Never found anybody in the forums that talked about actually having one however. Can't find any for sale today and further investigation revealed that their patent was terminated in 2012 due to failure to pay maintenance fees. It looks real heavy duty and very glad that it is still functional as my shaft angle is about 18 degrees, well beyond the recommended 12 degrees of a double cardan CV joint. Looks like they spared no expense on this build. The journals are permanently attached to their respective shaft tube end, knuckle, and end adapter. The bearing cups are removable via 3/16" cap screws and retainers. There is a center shaft with needle bearings that runs from the shaft tube end to the end adapter through the knuckle that actually rotates as the drive shaft end articulates. The end adapter (pictured with the loose bolts sticking out) mates with the normal dana 300 transfer case yoke. Maybe someone will see this post and comment on this driveshaft. Hope you get a chance to make a Jeep Jamboree real soon! At my age, my idea of fun has shifted and have little desire to play king of the hill anymore. Therefore I plan to take the more scenic, somewhat challenging but a little less destructive trails. William Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60Bubba Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 William, That is a wild looking driveshaft. I've never seen one like it nor had I heard of the company. I'm still running stock driveshafts, but I've only got about 3" of lift on 33" tires anyway. With a mild lift, a swaybar disconnect and two traction devices, I've gone everywhere I've tried to take it with my club. The only thing I've avoided so far were the really big rocks, because I like my tub straight just the way it is! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William H Posted December 19, 2016 Author Share Posted December 19, 2016 Really nice jeep!! William Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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