Diagnosis help for my '81 Truck

[Speed]

I just installed the '83 22R I got for my '81 4X4 pick up. I have some minor problems to sort out on it.

 1-Since I got the truck to run,it seems to run strong,but idles like it has at least one dead plug. I had replaced the distributor with the one from my '81 engine,which worked fine,so I wouldn't have to change the wiring plug to fit the newer engine. I set the timing at 10 degrees,but I'll have to pull the distributor and turn the shaft a tooth to reach the 12 degrees I want. After I noticed the rough idle,I replaced the cap,rotor and plug wires with those off my old engine,which only had about 100 miles on 'em since new. Didn't help,so I changed to my old plugs,which also had only 100 miles on 'em. That got me a smooth idle for about 6 seconds,then back to the rough idle. If I poke the throttle,it hits strong on all four,but if I float the engine at any RPM,the roughness comes back. This engine shows around 60 psi oil pressure cold,about 30 warm,and no visible smoke or leaks. I intended to run a compression test,but the hose for my compression gauge has gone missing,along with the adapters.

2-Can I run it with just the distributor's advance tube connected and the retard line capped? These two lines and the power brake hose are the only vacuum lines currently being used. every other vacuum port is capped or plugged. There's no smog pump or Cat. Converter on the truck.

3-What kind of a bag of snakes would it be to convert this truck to a normal turn signal flasher? The combination turn/emergency flasher relay hasn't been very reliable and is quite expensive to replace.

   Speed

[Moses Ludel]

Speed...As for the strange roughness and also the vacuum advance experimenting, use a timing light to verify what's happening with the ignition while the engine is performing poorly.  (Stay well away from the fan or remove the fan belt and run the engine cold if you plan to rev the engine with the vehicle stationary!)  See whether you have a timing or clear misfire error, reflected at the timing light.  If so, I would look for distributor shaft or bushing wobble that is affecting the module and pickup.

The turn signal/emergency flasher wiring could be explored.  If wiring is similar to a conventional, common flasher and hazard lights circuit, you may have a way to go here.  I'm suspect this won't be the case, as the four-way hazard lamps likely follow some kind of Toyota engineering scheme.

Moses

[Speed]

Well,I got the vacuum hose dilemma solved,got the distributor clocked so #1 is in line with the vacuum advance and set the timing at 12 degrees BTDC. This flasher unit operates both the turn signals and the emergency flashers. Looking at the wiring diagram,it'd be a monster to re-engineer. Decided it'd be cheaper and easier to just pay the $36.00 for the correct flasher unit,when I can,and call it good.

   I DID notice the exhaust manifold gasket leaks pretty bad,so next payday I'll be replacing it;the exhaust leak might have been part of the rough running. (the psychological part.)

   Speed

[Speed]

As it stands,I've installed a Weber carb on the engine,which seems to have improved the running markedly,though it still has the "tugboat" sounding idle,to a lesser degree. I'm looking at checking the compression next (I can't believe I haven't checked it yet-maybe I DID and it was okay....)followed by adjusting the valves. I ALSO changed both 22R engines over to 10si one wire alternators that make 105 amps,though the kits I used require mods to the adjustment brackets. The one on the '82 truck I'll be eventually swapping my axles into required offsetting the "J-bracket" outward an inch away from the alternator to clear the cooling fan,but works fine otherwise,and the one on the '81,which I'm driving now,would have the adjuster running into the power steering pump,so I engineered an a spring loaded arrangement that connects to the fenderwell. Both alternators/mounts work fine.   Next project is installing new 100W. H-4 headlights,as I'm getting tired of driving by feel at night.

   Speed

[Moses Ludel]

Innovative approaches...The Weber is altitude sensitive and generally needs jetting for the altitude/locale.  Another issue is float/seat pressure.  Keep fuel pump pressure within the limits for the Weber, usually 4 to 4.5 psi or so.  Look up the specs for your particular Weber series.  Flooding will result otherwise.

[Speed]

Yeah,the instructions for the carb conversion say SEVERAL times to try to keep the fuel pressure below 3.5 psi,and I figured the stock fuel pump wasn't likely to run significantly more than that.

   Saturday I had a guy at the Garage (working on his own truck,off the clock) make some adjustments, and while I don't think it runs BETTER,it certainly runs differently. I KNOW I need to re-adjust the choke,he messed with it a lot,and he found a couple of adjusters (?) that don't show on any pictures/diagrams I've seen. I'll set the low speed mixture screw back to specs and try to get the idle screw adjusted again. It WAS idling a little fast,even with the adjustment screw backed all the way off,which indicates an issue according to the instructions. I was going to try another couple of degrees of advance and see where THAT leaves it. Running it as it was delivered,it initially ran right up to 70 mph,but then developed a miss;I kept backing out of the throttle,but it didn't improve much,so I stopped. it idled okay so I drove on over to Carlin,trying different speeds,but was marginal at best.  Coming back to Elko,I discovered it'd run pretty good at about 60 in 4th. I upshifted to 5th and EASED it up to 70,which it ran fine at,but any more throttle and it'd start to act up again. Even with all that,it gor 20.7 mpg.

This carb seems pretty touchy,but I hope it'll tune in without re-jetting it. So it'll be:

re-set the choke blades

re-set the fast idle

set the low speed mix within specs,

set the idle speed to around 750 rpm if possible-if it won't idle down enough,advance the ignition timing a couple of degrees.

THEORETICALLY,that'll make it run well again,right?

   Speed

[Moses Ludel]

Speed...Glad you're aware of the PSI limit for the Weber.  It's even lower than I thought, good that you have the specification of 3.5 PSI maximum.  If the stock fuel pump puts out too much pressure, there are inline pressure regulators that can be manually adjusted to the desired pressure.  This has been the time-honored way to damp down pressure on these Weber installations.  On Jeep CJ/YJ 4.2L engines, the AMC inline six fuel pump is in the 6-7 PSI range, which can wreak havoc on a Weber float and needle.  If pressure is too high, a Weber will over-fuel the engine.

Sounds like you have a vacuum leak, maybe a good one.  When backing the throttle stop screw out completely, if the engine continues to run fast, that's a sign of air entering the A/F stream from somewhere.  If not a vacuum leak, you may be pushing too much fuel due to excessive fuel pump pressure as we've discussed.  Check the fuel pump pressure.

Check for a vacuum/air leak.  A simple approach is a can of WD-40 or a similar low volatility petroleum base spray cleaner.  (Avoid hot areas like the exhaust manifold!)  Spray a light mist around the carburetor base, the intake manifold junction with the head and the vacuum hoses.  Engine speed changes indicate a leak...Cap off or plug vacuum lines if you suspect a vacuum hose or device leak.  See whether that helps identify the leak(s)...Even the brake booster can create a vacuum leak, often a big one if the diaphragm or check valve bleed off.

Moses

[Speed]

   The Toyota developed a NEW issue-no spark. It died on the road,suddenly,just like I turned off the ignition. Plenty of cranking power,but NO spark. After having the coil tested and found okay,popular opinion is that the ignitor is the problem. I now have the parts to convert to a GM ignition module,I just need to make an aluminum base plate to mount the module to and get some di-electric grease,and grow some warm weather to do the install and it should be a runner again.

   I bought a fuel pressure regulator and installed it,set to 2-1/2 psi to start with,then I went through and re-set the carb to the specs listed in the installation papers. Once I have it running again I can go through and fine-tune it a bit.

   Following that,my only urgent task will be figuring out where the water is getting into the cab and dripping onto the stereo,the CB and the seat on both sides. It's getting pretty annoying.

   Now that you mention the brake booster,it reminds me-the brakes have never felt completely right since the "Car Doctors" shop  "rebuilt" them. I had to extend the push rod between the master cylinder and the booster about an inch to even HAVE brakes. The truck stops well enough,but I suspect the rear brakes aren't playing. As I stop,the brakes are quite good,but as I roll down to a stop,it feels like the front brakes grab hard enough that it feels like the axle "winds up",bouncing the truck backwards slightly. I think the rear brakes just need adjusting. I have 2 of the 3 cables needed to fix the E-brake,so I'd like to try fixing that,if I can sort out their weird cable routing. That also was supposed to be done in the brake "rebuild". Since it wasn't possible at the time for me to do without the truck,I fixed what I had to,to be able to drive it,and by the time I had alternate transportation it was too late to claim their shoddy workmanship in a Court case.

Speed

[Moses Ludel]

Hi, Speed, have a safe and pleasant New Year...Best in 2020...See my comments below:

2 hours ago, Speed said:

   The Toyota developed a NEW issue-no spark. It died on the road,suddenly,just like I turned off the ignition. Plenty of cranking power,but NO spark. After having the coil tested and found okay,popular opinion is that the ignitor is the problem. I now have the parts to convert to a GM ignition module,I just need to make an aluminum base plate to mount the module to and get some di-electric grease,and grow some warm weather to do the install and it should be a runner again.

Yep, the ignitor was a time-honored issue and spendy item with these Toyota electronic ignitions.  For peace of mind, it would be good to test the old unit, but your GM module conversion sounds a lot cheaper, readily available and more reliable in any case.  Where did you get the info on that conversion?  Is it an easy splice-in?

   I bought a fuel pressure regulator and installed it,set to 2-1/2 psi to start with,then I went through and re-set the carb to the specs listed in the installation papers. Once I have it running again I can go through and fine-tune it a bit.

Better you should be the tuner.  You'll be well up the learning curve on the Weber carburetor.

 

2 hours ago, Speed said:

   Following that,my only urgent task will be figuring out where the water is getting into the cab and dripping onto the stereo,the CB and the seat on both sides. It's getting pretty annoying.

Is this a replacement cab for the rollover cab?  Or is this the cab that took the major shot?

   Now that you mention the brake booster,it reminds me-the brakes have never felt completely right since the "Car Doctors" shop  "rebuilt" them. I had to extend the push rod between the master cylinder and the booster about an inch to even HAVE brakes. The truck stops well enough,but I suspect the rear brakes aren't playing. As I stop,the brakes are quite good,but as I roll down to a stop,it feels like the front brakes grab hard enough that it feels like the axle "winds up",bouncing the truck backwards slightly. I think the rear brakes just need adjusting.

Didn't you have a proportioning valve issue at the rear brakes?  The factory chassis height valve?  Is this in place, adjusted and working properly?

I have 2 of the 3 cables needed to fix the E-brake,so I'd like to try fixing that,if I can sort out their weird cable routing. That also was supposed to be done in the brake "rebuild". Since it wasn't possible at the time for me to do without the truck,I fixed what I had to,to be able to drive it,and by the time I had alternate transportation it was too late to claim their shoddy workmanship in a Court case.

Sounds like you're unhappy with the sublet brake work...This is why I've always done my own work:  I'm accountable and not on a flat-rate schedule.  When you can do your own repairs, you're better off.  Do you have the tools, work space and a factory-grade service manual for your Toyota pickup?

Speed

 

[Speed]

I originally found the conversion on Marlin Crawler's website,seems several people have also done it and there's quite a lot of diversity on the methods and the parts used. I'd been looking for a discussion that covered some other conversions as well,the one I wanted was the Ford Blue-Grommet module,but I didn't find that one. The GM one is pretty simple-the two wires from the Distributor go to one end of the module,the terminals marked W and G. (If there's no spark,I can reverse these two wires and all should be fine.) The other two wires to the module,one of which is marked B,for Battery,goes to keyed 12V, (I'm going to use the same wire as the ignitor did,out of the OEM plug.) and will also connect to the + side of the coil,and C,for Chassis ground, would go to the - side of the coil and any other grounds I want to use. They say I can ground the Module case through one of the mounting screws,plenty of good grounds makes everything happy. I got some di-electric grease and built a heat sink/bracket from aluminum. For the mount,I screwed the module to the beam of an aluminum air compressor connecting rod with a heat sink sandwiched in,and plenty of grease in between. The rod was bolted to the inner fender,with the rod cap on the outside of the inner fender.;I've seen some people use the original Toyota coil and the ignitor bracket to simplify the mounting. So it's only four wires and a mounting plate to make it work,if you don't mind using used parts.

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   On that carb,I think I'll just drive it awhile and see how it acts-I MIGHT not even have to change anything.

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   This cab is the same one that got tumbled down a mountain. It wasn't too straight when they put the new windshield in it-it already had a half circle crack in it right behind where the rear view mirror would have been if it was still there.

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The proportioning valve is still there and connected-not sure of the adjustment,I don't know what the link is supposed to look like-it looks to ME like it's all pulled out of shape. It has a shallow "S" bend in it,but it must be close to where it should be or it wouldn't reach from here to there. I feel like the "mechanic" didn't adjust anything before calling it DONE.

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I have the tools,sort of a place to work (Outdoors,slanted driveway that looks like it was used to test explosives),a book (An 80's vintage Haynes repair manual-and some internet) etc. I mostly don't do a lot of the work anymore because my health has been screwing me up. Messed up shoulder,Arthritis in my hands,lower back damage,etc. All were the residuals of doing stuff I shouldn't have done,back when I was young and invincible...There's also the feeling that I don't know as much now as I did back when I knew ALL about EVERYTHING. 🤡

   I wouldn't have been so upset with the half-assed brake work if I hadn't paid a premium price for it. When I have someone doing work for free,or for a six pack,I know I'll be getting pretty much what I paid for,but there's no way,by ANY stretch of the imagination,THIS would be worth $600.00! THIS was supposed to last for a pretty long while. I shoulda taken it right back and worked 'em over about it,but like I said,I was without a running vehicle and with a lot of stuff still to move,so I made a (BAD) executive decision. THEY made a BAD decision by releasing my truck without so much as test driving it across their parking lot to see if the brakes even WORKED.😠 I probably coulda OWNED their shop,but they were already closing and retiring-would it have even been worth the fight?

[Moses Ludel]

Speed, I have a suggestion for a 1978-87 Toyota pickup service manual that you would find very helpful:  Toyota Pickup, 4Runner Service Manual by Robert Bentley Publisher.  Bentley is my book publisher, and they do the factory shop manuals for VW North America and Porsche, very professional, detailed stuff.  My Toyota Truck and Land Cruiser Owner's Bible is in the Bentley Publishers book stable, but in this case I'm referring to an earlier Bentley in-house book that was model year specific and a designated shop/repair manual.

The Toyota Pickup, 4Runner Service Manual is no longer in print and would need to be found and purchased used at Amazon, eBay or from an automotive literature (used books) outlet.  Here's an earlier printing (through 1984 models) at Amazon:  https://www.amazon.com/Toyota-Pickup-Truck-Service-Manual/dp/0837602521/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?keywords=Toyota+Pickup%2C+4Runner+SErvice+Manual+Robert+Bentley&qid=1577800801&s=books&sr=8-1-fkmr1

If you can find a copy of Bentley's Toyota Pickup, 4Runner Service Manual on eBay or through used book channels, it has far more detail and helpful content than Haynes or any other aftermarket book.  In the "Brakes and Wheels" Chapter 8, Pages 7-10 of the 1978-87 edition, there is a section devoted to your truck's Load-Sensing Proportioning System, including useful illustrations of the parts relationships and their original shapes.

Equipped with a quality shop manual (either the book I'm suggesting or an official Toyota FSM that covers your truck), your confidence would soar.  Unfortunately, many shops do not follow these protocols and either do not have the right books or have functionally illiterate, "know-it-all" staff.  Social media like YouTube has gone further to dumb down and trivialize automotive work.  Better training standards, brake work certification tests (like the trucking industry) and pay incentives would be helpful in this country.  NIASE is a step in that direction but does not train techs to work on specific vehicles, model types or unique brake devices like your Toyota load-sensing rear brake proportioning system. 

I have bookcases full of FSMs from the 1940s to present and general automotive trade books dating back to the 1920s.  Despite 52 years of professional automotive work, I still rely upon factory-level shop procedures and protocols.  Anyone who doesn't is not performing professional grade work.

If you cannot find or afford a used copy of the Toyota Pickup, 4Runner Service Manual, let me know.  I'll scan the four pages described from the copy setting in my bookcase and post as a PDF.  My publisher will not be offended nor cite me for infringing on copyright, the book is no longer in the market.

Moses

[Speed]

Well,I got the module swapped to a GM one-no joy. Pulled the module and went to EVERY shop in town to get it tested-no luck. Nobody is equipped to terst one. Finally found Konakis Automotive has the official tester,and my used module was toast. bought a new one at NAPA,installed it,still no spark. RE-checked my wiring,it is all correct. I've concluded my problem is either the 2 wire harness from my module to the distributor is damaged,the plug at the distributor isn't connecting or the pick up IN the distributor is smoked.
I'm going to disconnect that harness at both ends and check it for damaged wire,then replace the plug with different connections and swap in the distributor from my '82 engine. I believe that'll cover all the likely culprits,and it should be a runner. That'll be a good thing-I have at least two truckloads of trash to haul.

   BTW-I decided the axle swap won't be an option until Spring,if then. Once I have this truck operable,I'll bring my '74 Chevy one ton flatbed in to swap a small block 400 into it,that'll take a while for a variety of reasons. (Broken finger,Flu,Taking care of my 77 year old housebound Sister with Dementia) In the meantime,I'll change the alternator on the '54 GMC and put some 100W headlights on it,and install an under-bed box below the Left Front corner of the deck,and,if I can get the materials I need,I'll build a truck crane a bit bigger than the one on my Chevy one ton,lift capacity of 1/2 ton extended,reach of maybe 12 feet extended,8 feet collapsed.

   Every day's a new adventure.➰

      Speed

[Moses Ludel]

Wow, Speed, ambitious projects for winter time at Elko.  Sounds like your distributor swap will do the trick on the Toyota.  Good that NAPA had a replacement/rebuilt module.

The National Cowboy Poetry Gathering is on this week at your town.  That certainly raises the traffic count!

Glad you're there for your sister, Speed...

Moses