1985 4Runner Gets Upgrades Including 5.0L Mustang GT V-8 Motor

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I just recently purchased this project that sat for 12 years, motor was never installed... the major problem for me personally is to make this project CA smog legal and get the referee to sign off on it. I think I have most of the smog stuff, cats, smog pump, vacuum switches, hoses, tank canister, lines.

After compiling huge amounts of research info on engine wiring, emissions, their has got to be a easier solution then to hunt and peck to piece the mustang motor to computer and adapt to Toyota, any suggestions for documentation including your own books would be great.

*Thought about using wiring harnesses from painless wiring or Ford performance but they do not support emissions.

*So far I have cut the frame to make room for the exhaust to clear the frame rails and boxed and reinforced it.

*Installed special pilot bearing to except new input shaft, bell housing, stock Ford pressure plate, 11" centerforce clutch, stock throughout bearing, changed out the 1 1\4 10 spline HD Dodge NV4500 trans input and retainer to a 1 1/8" 10 spline shaft and retainer, and readapted using AA adapter to Marlin Crawler dual t-case set up.

*Cut out trans tunnel area additionally to better except the tcase and trans.

*Cut out the rear inner front fenders to except larger tires

*will cut rear fenders next

*dry fit engine and trans and tcase, TOO heavy and tall for the front end loader of tractor to install, separated trans from motor and wanted to lower engine 2" than aftermarket engine mounts would allow, but not enough clearance for hydraulic clutch slave cylinder set up, (what is the lowest angle that the trans motor can sit, obviously tilting engine down in back to clear tunnel)?

*What angle to install front shocks, have to cycle front end to find end travel point, make and install bump stops, then go from there (front shocks have 12" total travel)

*fuel tank - going to attempt to use the original EFI tank and put a electric fuel pump in line and possibly wire up stock in tank pump to pull fuel from pump to new in line pump. (note: someone suggested to put a 1 gallon reserve tank in engine compartment or under fender area to hold fuel pumped by stock pump and plumb high pressure pump to supply fuel to motor (this was suggested to prevent fuel starvation when going over steep inclines (but do not know if referee will pass this design)

*need to install engine and drive train front winch, seats to see how rig will sit, I wanted to keep low center of gravity, but cannot lower engine any more, cannot use a lower body lift because of clearances, so may end up remove some leaf springs?

MORE TO COME with pictures. 

Parts already have:

*Toyota front axle with 1 ton outers, brakes and axles, ARB and 5.29 gears

*Toyota rear axle with 1 ton brakes, axles, bearings ARB and 5.29 gears

*1995 5.0 mustang motor, CARB approved headers, 92 wire harness and A9P computer

*New NV4500 5 speed, just install the smaller 1 1/8" 10 spline input shaft and retainer collar

*Marlin Crawler dual transfer cases

*Tom Woods drive shafts

*2.0 Fox reservoir shocks (12" front, 14" rear)

*front springs 9 leafs with orbital front and rear balls military wrap grease able   

*rear springs 1 leafs with orbital front and rear balls military wrap grease able

1.5" body lift

Pete

[Moses Ludel]

Pete...This is an ambitious project, you must be highly motivated.  An '85 beam front axle Toyota 4x4 pickup is iconic and very popular still, cult status included!  I do like the Ford 5.0L for its forward mounted distributor and very light overall weight, alloy heads and an iron block.  I've consider an H.O. 5.0L for our XJ Cherokee.

There are aftermarket wiring harnesses for using a stock ECM with this application.  Look within the street rod industry, you will find harnesses intended for readily adapting the 5.0L Ford V-8 to any chassis. (Check out the Ford SVO offerings, too.) This could save considerable time and energy, not to mention wading through wiring diagrams and other headaches.  Harnesses like this can reduce the number of hookups at the chassis to a handful of wires.

The height of the powertrain in the chassis is more your personal call, governed by ground clearance issues and skid plating.  Your bigger concern, though, is the angle of the engine/transmission with relationship to the driveline and U-joint demands.  The NV4500 is a rugged transmission, it does have a very tall control housing and shifter mechanism.  I would still lean toward a relatively "normal" plane for the powertrain, even if you must create a tall floor pan to enshroud the top of the NV4500.  You're not going to seat anybody in the mid-area, anyway.

The center-of-gravity on the Toyota 4x4 pickup is high to start, so settling the engine/transmission into the chassis could actually help some.  Find a balance here.

Moses

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Thanks Moses the first order of concern is installing the engine and transmission combo I am using the Ford F-150 bellhousing the Ford 164 tooth flywheel the Chevy 11 inch clutch Ford pressure plate and special three-quarter inch ID pilot bushing from advance adapters after three unsuccessful engine to transmission installs with this rig, i cannot mate the transmission into the engine for the life of me I have multiple cherry pickers engine hoist and floor jacks to make the job easier and still won't go together. I just pulled the engine back out and recheck the depth of the input shaft the I'd of the pilot bearing and cross-checked everything I can possibly think of. I am not a spring chicken to engine installs. this is got to be the worst install ever.

Another question if you have another minute I need to start thinking about my front lower shock mounts I'm going to be installing 12 inch 2.0 Fox Reservoir shocks the only place I can think of installing the lower amount would be on the upper axle outer flange if I will do this will the Heat goof up the hardening of the axle?

[Moses Ludel]

Pete...I know you did these steps or equivalent, but to avoid overlooking anything, check the clutch disc alignment with a disc alignment tool or an actual input gear.  Not sure whether you're "eyeballing" the disc center.  Also check the actual fit of the disc onto the input gear splines.  Check the fit of the input nose or use a facsimile alignment tool into the pilot bushing.  You checked stack height, look at it again.  Also, minimize the amount of grease in the pilot.  Make sure the input gear can readily fit with this grease in place.  Grease in a snug fit bushing and cavity like this can readily prevent the input nose from seating or, worse yet, drive out the pilot bushing as you force the input gear's nose into the bushing!

If everything checks okay, I don't see a transmission jack.  Even for a Ram 11.5" ring-and-pinion removal/install, I use a transmission jack these days.  For a transmission/transfer case as long and heavy as your assembly, I would not attempt the install without a transmission jack.

You're working off the floor, and that's okay.  I found a transmission jack (platform and rail type with tilts in fore-aft and left-right rotation) at Summit Racing.  Harbor Freight may have something close.  The unit fits into a standard floor jack receiver once you remove the lift cup.  Simple.  Better yet, it works.  

Considering the combination length, the slightest shift could easily bind or misalign the input gear to the splines and crankshaft pilot bearing.  If nothing else, the jack cost me $75 as I recall, and the strain reduction is monumental.

Regarding the axle and welding, the axle tube section is factory welded and not heat treated.  The outer "C" or knuckle support is a forging.  These pieces get welded together at the factory and are not heat treated afterward.  Cool down should be at room temperature with no cold air drafts and no quenching.

There are aftermarket truss installations and kits that weld directly to the tube and C-brace.  The issue is more the need to remove the axle shaft and ball joints, as the heat applied could damage the ball joints.  (The axle shaft has a dead air space to the inner tube.) Since the C sets the camber angle and caster, the tube and ball-joint alignment must not be impaired.  I would use care here to avoid camber changes when welding these parts.  A possible help would be setting uniform top-to-bottom loads on the C with a pair of come along tensioners.  You would have to pull across the axle, top and bottom, from the opposite "C" while welding the shock mounts in place.  Tension would need to be identical with welds made cautiously and cooled down properly.  Racers and hardcore 'wheelers weld beam axle trusses in place without much concern; however, I would at least stitch weld or stagger weld in such a case, allowing cool down between welds.

The factory does not do a good job maintaining "C" alignment when welding.  Caster is typically in range, though I've seen TJ Wrangler and other Dana axles with excess camber error on the side with the short axle housing tube like you're illustrating.  There is plenty of welding done here, and warp or distortion is apparently hard to control.  These pieces are likely jig welded, and they still don't hold true.  (The welding involved with the C forging, axle tube and the spring perch is way more than you have in mind with your shock mounts.)  

There is good reason for Specialty Equipment Products' off-set angle replacement ball joints! 

Moses

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Moses, thx for the info, ALL the info! Good welding tips, an analogy. After 3 attempts to mate the trans to engine, I threw in the towel. I tested the old input shaft and the clutch align tool and they  both measured .745" od. The new In put shaft that I assumed was correct measured .755" od. The needle bearing measured. 749 id. "Dah, it's not going to fit. Called AA today, they are sending a new pilot bearing, I wish they would send a new input shaft instead.

With that said, I will move on past the lower shock mounts to the uppers... they need to be angled 1 degree back toward the shackle for every inch of shock travel? Would you agree?

Note- 4.5mb pics won't upload

[Moses Ludel]

Pete...My thought on the shocks:  angle the shocks to address the arc of travel when the axle rises and drops.  There is an "arc of radius" that the axle follows over its range of travel.  The shock must stay within reasonable alignment over this arc of travel.  I'm not familiar with the formula you describe, but it may reflect the typical arc of radius/travel.

Glad you have the pilot bearing/input nose issue resolved...

Moses

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I hope were not taking too much of your time by answering all these fundamental questions that I've already dealt with in the past with other builds but it's nice to reflect with a professional that's already done it as I've already made a lot of mistakes with my other builds and learned a lot. going forward the next question on the board is I'm building seat brackets and I want to incorporate inch and a quarter or inch and an eight square tube for the shoulder harness brackets and seat mounts and I might do a cage by building off the seat bracket... I did this years ago with my 66 big block Corvette and it passed safety inspection with flying colors for weekend track use. Of course the bottom of the brackets will be welded to 1/8 inch plate and bolted to the floor and the floor will be reinforced underneath with additional steel tubing around the body to frame mounts. I want the theme to be square tubing because it's so much easier to work with I will build some kind of Sliders front and rear bumpers out of similar tubing

I built a 2" od round tube cage before for my 88 Wrangler back in the early 90's and it took forever cutting and fitting the radius and bending the tube.

Pictured notching and welding additional inch and a half by 3 inch square tubing to strengthen frame

[Moses Ludel]

Pete...In my Jeep CJ Rebuilder's Manuals, I illustrate the way to frame-mount a cage in a vehicle with a ladder frame/separate body and frame.  If the body flexes on mount cushions, I clamshell the body mount section of the cage and use insulators at the clamshell joints.  The cage is able to flex at the body floor without losing the strength of the  welded, solid attachment at the frame.

Many cages attach only to the body.  If your cage attaches to the seat brackets and not through to the frame, the degree of protection is only as good as the attachment points.  In this case, you have a body cage and not a frame mounted cage.  If the vehicle rolls over, the body can separate from the frame—optimally with the cage intact within the cab and with the seats and harnesses intact.  That may be all you want.  For hardcore trail use, however, I would take this further and make a clamshell cage with secure frame attachment.

In your frame notching job with weld-in bracing (photo posted), is the 1.5" x 3" rectangular tubing still intact and embedded within the frame?  It's hard to visualize whether you've used the whole piece of tubing or cut it lengthwise and only used one wall of the tubing.

Moses   

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Hi moses, the 1.5 x 3" tubing is welded to the outside of the frame  (embedded). Also the part that was cut out was boxed with plate.

[Moses Ludel]

A second look!  Now the rectangular tubing is clear...on the outside of the original frame section.

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Hello Moses can you send me a couple pictures of the clamshell technique

[Moses Ludel]

Pete...I detailed this information in my Jeep CJ Rebuilder's Manuals.  I'll stretch copyright to provide a glimpse, this PDF material is copyrighted (Bentley Publishers) and not to be distributed further or sold in any form:

Jeep CJ Rebuilder's Manual Clamshell Cage Coverage.pdf

These two Bentley Publishers books (Jeep CJ Rebuilder's Manual:  1946-71 Edition and 1972-86 Edition) are packed with this caliber of information on Jeep CJ models.  If you need this kind of insight, the books are available from Bentley Publishers, Amazon, Advance Adapters, independent book sources, Barnes & Noble and a number of 4WD parts outlets.

Moses

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Thank you, for taking the time to prepare copies for me. I had your books years ago, I've moved so many times lost them and lent them out. Guess I will order them and read them all over again!

Next discussion is going to be hydraulic clutch.need to figure out upper and lower rod lengths... all custom

[Moses Ludel]

Pete...Glad the PDF illustrations help.  It's a busy installation but safer if you want the Toyota cab to stay with the frame in the event of a rollover.

Share your hydraulic clutch linkage "engineering" in a fresh topic.  This will be useful to others, few take the time to consider the leverage and physics:  volume of pistons, fluid displacement and pedal lever force.

Moses 

 

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Hey Moses, Just a quick note, After thoroughly reviewing your pictures, I remember using the claimshell method back in the mid 80's, when I rebuilt a 1976 CJ5 and put a Fiberglass body, windshield, and hood on it. I built a full cage and claim shelled it and used 1/2" thick rubber to insulate the install, the odd note is/was I could not torque down the bolts as tight as I wanted to or the insulation would not work.

[Moses Ludel]

Pete...Note my use of nylock self-locking Grade 8 nuts on the clamshell hardware to prevent loosening without the need to over-tighten or squeeze down the cushion material.  You're correct:  If the cushion material cannot flex and/or crush in service, the clamshell would act like a solid cage with the body sandwiched rigidly!  The Goodyear belting that I used will yield while under snug compression.  This allowed a torque setting that prevents the cage from banging loosely against the body floor.

Moses

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I want to shorten my shackles that came on my project, I don't need that much lift and arc/movement. Does anyone see a problem with cutting and welding them to make them shorter. Please review pictures. Note. I did this task on a raised F250 on the front shackles and was successful.

[Moses Ludel]

Pete...Understand your pain!  The front shackles look like there may be a way to go.  The rear, with the cross-brace and step widths would be difficult to shorten, looks like 1/2" might be possible.  

I like the cross brace on these kinds of shackles, we called them "H"-type in the day.  If this were my project, I would build new shackles from scratch.  However, the current shackle side-plates have been stamped to shape.  It would be hard to replicate this approach.  Heating and bending does not produce these tight angles, and you don't have much room for sweeping bends or arcs.

Overall, it might be easier to find shorter shackles in the aftermarket.  I would use the pivot widths as a guideline and see what's available out there.

Moses      

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Hello folks after a few months of installing shocks and trans and brakes and all the goodies and pretty much all set up. I'm down to the last problem hopefully which is the clutch I have mated a 85 ish F-150 bellhousing to the 5.0 motor and its basically all F-150 components including the 85 F150 master cylinder and slave cylinder so here's the problem I can shift gears but very difficult to go in first (note brand NV 4500 5-speed transmission) when I'm in low low range the clutch slips I have replaced the master cylinder with a 7/8 bore and I have installed a adjustment threaded shaft in the slave cylinder so I can infinitely adjust the slave cylinder movement to no avail 

[Moses Ludel]

Hi, Pete...Sounds like you've been very busy, this project has been quite an undertaking!  When I filmed the SEMA Show video interview of Steve Sanders from Cummins Repower, there was an FJ79 on an FJ80 frame with a super clean R2.8L diesel swap that looked "factory"...I thought of your project.  See the interview clips of that FJ79 engine bay, it's a Toyota inspiration.  The 2017 SEMA Show/Cummins interview video is at the Home Page of the magazine.

Regarding your project's clutch situation, I would begin by making sure that the release bearing can slide far enough away from the clutch cover fingers to allow the pressure plate to fully clamp.  Your description could be a clutch that is partially released when the pedal retracts completely.

 Confirm that with the slave cylinder removed, the release arm moves far enough to allow the throw-out bearing to slide away from the clutch cover fingers.  Check for any restriction of movement or a stack height issue.  No room for the release bearing to retract fully can be caused by one of several reasons.  Here are common ones:

1) Clutch fingers stand too far out, could be a disc too thin or wrong parts.

2) The release bearing or its collar are wrong:  too much overall length to the collar, the bearing collar hits the front bearing retainer before the T.O. bearing's face clears the clutch cover fingers.

3) The amount of release arm movement is a concern as you mention.  You do have plenty of master cylinder volume.  You also need the clutch pedal to retract high enough to push the pistons in the master and slave cylinders far enough.

4) Make sure the clutch pedal retracts far enough to allow the master cylinder piston to retract fully when you release the pedal.  You need both full travel of the master cylinder piston and enough pedal height to allow the piston to have its full range range of travel.  This needs to occur at the slave, too, and the slave needs to allow the release arm to retract fully with clearance between the release bearing face and clutch cover fingers.

5) There is one other possibility unrelated to the clutch:  The input shaft of the NV4500 could be seizing in the crankshaft pilot bearing, or the input shaft is too long and binds against the crankshaft pilot bearing.  In either case, the input shaft is dragging and rotating with the crankshaft whether the clutch is released or not.  That drag would feel like the clutch is engaged or partially engaged and make shifting into gear, especially 1st gear at a stop, very difficult or impossible.

Check to be sure that the clutch disk clears the outer cover flanges and the raised portion of the clutch disk hub faces outward as it should.  If not, the disk will drag on the flywheel center and not disengage.

Let us know what you find...

Moses

 

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Moses, thanks for the info...See below:

 *I did change the input shaft on the nv 4500 from 1 1/4" to 1 1/8"

*Installed special needle pilot pushing from advance adapters

*Stock pressure plate

*AA  recommended clutch disc

*clutch fork was shortened to prevent interference with frame

* Master slave cylinder has been adjusted so the full stroke of the clutch pedal is used

[Moses Ludel]

Pete, the only wild card is the shortened clutch fork arm.  If the release arm has a traditional pivot ball somewhere between the release fork end and the slave rod attachment point*, the shorter arm would, if anything, create more bearing travel than stock.  The slave cylinder piston moves the same distance as stock, but the shortened outer arm would move the bearing further, i.e., the piston moves correct distance in the slave, but the fulcrum point of the release arm is wrong due to a shortened outer section of the arm.  Being shorter at the arm's outer section would create more movement at the release bearing end than a stock arm's travel.

*If the release arm is a crossover type with the pivot point at the opposite end of the arm and not a mid-point, the shorter arm would again create more travel than stock.  So either way, a shorter arm would provide plenty of release bearing travel, and the clutch should release properly. For what it's worth, the shorter arm does increase the resistance/load at the clutch pedal and places more of a load on the clutch master cylinder and slave cylinder.

Does not explain the slip in low range, which would be the clutch's failure to clamp securely against the flywheel face.  Oddly, this slip should be more evident in high range, as the load on the clutch is much greater than in low range...I itemized possible reasons for insufficient clamping in my previous post/reply. 

Let us know what you find when you inspect the clutch release directly at the clutch cover (through the release arm opening in the bellhousing).  You're looking for actual clearance between the T.O. bearing's face and the clutch cover fingers with the clutch pedal retracted.

Moses