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Correct Dodge Ram AAM Differential Carrier for 3.42 Ratio and Setting Up the Ring-and-Pinion


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Hello, i want to update my Ram with cummins 5.9 and 48RE and 4.10 ratio and stock michelin tyres (265/70-17) and i want to keep this tyre size, i'm a daily driver and i use the truck for travels only, i need to cruise with less rpm, i think the 3.42 ratio would be the best option, but i wanna know if that ratio can fit in the same stock 4.10 carrier diff.-

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I was very happy with the performance and fuel efficiency using stock 3.73 gearing with stock diameter tires...We've discussed this extensively in the fuel efficiency post, I suggest that you read through that in the Dodge Ram Cummins forum.  It's a popular theme.

 

3.42 is in my view too tall for any reasonable towing chores and would overload the 48RE transmission.  3.42 is popular today because the 6.7L Cummins is backed up with more gear changes in the automatic transmission.

 

Moses

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Thank you for answer, i never tow or haul, i use the truck for travels only on highways, and 4.10 its too low, 140 km/h to 2.600 rpm!!! one more teeth in the pinion means 200 rpm (aproximately) less for the engine, 2.400 to 140 and 3.73 and a desirable 2250 for 140 with 3.42, so i think i get the best MPG with 3.42 and engine running happy in that rpm, anyway i keep on mind the 4 gears for the 48RE, my big question is if i can fit the 3.42 pinion and ring in the same carrier differential 11.5 rear and 9.25 front, i tell you this because chrysler introduced the 3.42 ratio in 2008 up, and my truck its a 2007 (in the usa) and referring about speedo somebody told in another forum that the speedo pickup the signal from the abs sensor of rear end, so, if the ring has the same amount of teeth and just change the amount of the pinion teeth i think the speedo will mark correctly, (41x10 for 4.10-41x11 for 3.73-41x12 for 3.42) what do you think about this???, sorry my english, its my second language, and thank you a lot for your time!!!!.-

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I consulted with Mac at Revolution Axle & Gear, they're direct with AAM.  There is a glitch around the 3.42 carrier for the 9.25" front axle.  You need to change both the carrier and ring-and-pinion gear set, as the ring gear thickness does change on the later 9.25" axle.  There was also discussion that the thicker ring gear may also apply to current (later) 4.10 gear sets for the 9.25"; however, there are many 4.10 sets still available for the OEM 9.25" carrier on 2007 and earlier trucks like ours.  Apparently, the rear 11.5" axle/carrier is not an issue.

 

So, if you're sold on the 3.42 gears, you can make the conversion but will need the later carrier as well as ring-and-pinion for your front axle.  If you'd like further details from Revolution Gear, call Mac at 1-844-213-4327 or contact him at info@revolutiongear.com.  We just got off the phone.  He'll research further if you need more details. 

 

MAKE SURE YOU GET A GEAR SET WITH THE CORRECT THICKNESS RING GEAR FOR THE FRONT AXLE CARRIER.  Again, keep in mind that the 3.42 gears are used with the 6.7L engine and more transmission speeds for narrower gaps between each shift.  I'm still an advocate for 3.73 gears with the correct ring gear/differential carrier at the 9.25" axle.  Your axle housings are apparently not an issue with any of the gear sets we're discussing.

 

Trust this helps...

 

Moses

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Please, read this:

 

Good News!!! I just got an email response back from the sales account manager of American Axle & Manufacturing. I told him that a lot of us wanted a lower numerical rear axle ratio for our trucks. He told me that a 3:42 ratio will be available in early 2007 which will retrofit back to 2003 models.

 

that i found in the last post from this forum:

 

http://www.dieselram.com/showthread.php?t=178907&highlight=axle+ratio&page=5

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Moses, i forgot an important detail, my 9.25 aam dif 2007 up already has a case #400314460 needed for 3.42 ratio

http://www.drivetrainamerica.com/p-835-40045288-dodge-aam-925-front-342-oe-ring-pinion-gear-set-2007-up.aspx

http://www.drivetrainamerica.com/p-13738-40031460-dodge-aam-925-front-loaded-standard-open-differential-case-07.aspx

 

i disassembled my diff case 1 year ago and i took some picture of it and i found that case that it is using is this, so i thing thereis no issue to fit the 3.42 ratio, what do you think about this??? i need your opinion, thanks in advance!!!!
 
ARIEL ZDANOVICZ.-
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Ariel...I followed the link you provided and came to the same conclusion from that information.  If you have the 400314460 case, it should work with 3.42 axle gearing in your front axle housing.

 

My research went further to the Mopar official parts listings.  2007 was the change year.  As long as your original front axle was not a Tru-Lok or 4.56:1, you have the correct carrier for the 3.42 gearing.  2006 and earlier use a different differential case/carrier.  Your carrier/differential case should be the same as the 2008-up models with the 3.42:1 option.

 

2003-2006:

 

[DJQ]=Axle - Front,9.25

[DME]=Axle Ratio - 3.73

[DMF]=Axle Ratio - 4.10

[DMU]=Axle Ratio - 4.56

 

CASE, Differential

05086691AA 1 6, 7 [DME,DMF]

05175278AA 1 7 41, 62 [DMU,DSE]

 

2007-up (3.42 gearing was not available in model year 2007 but the carriers are the same as 2008):

 

[DME]=3.73 AXLE RATIO

[DMF]=4.10 AXLE RATIO

[DMR]=3.42 AXLE RATIO

[DMU]=4.56 AXLE RATIO

 

CASE ASSEMBLY, Differential

05175278AB 1 7 41, 62 [DMU,DSE]

68002461AA 1 6 81 DME,DMF,DMR,BRT]

1 7 41, 42, 62,

81

DME,DMF,DMR,BRT]

 

This is the information from the official parts listings for Dodge Ram trucks...I see from a km/h to mph conversion that you're targeting 87 mph!  That's very fast and explains why you want 3.42 gears.  Consider, though, that the load on the transmission, engine and axles will increase with the tall (numerically low) axle gearing.  I'm guessing you do not plan to pull a trailer at any time.  The 5.9L could handle the load, but with stock tire diameter and 3.42 gears, you would place a large load on the transmission.  I would get an add-on transmission cooler, deep transmission pan and a temperature gauge.

 

Moses

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Tank you a lots!!! and sorry for make you spend your valuable time!!! and sorry my english!!

i dont think tow or haul anything, i just use the truck as a car, i have not a car because i love my cummins truck, this is why i want swap my 4.10 to 3.42 ratio axles, and almost never load anything on the box.

 

i did realized that my 9.25 case is the needed for 3.42 because i was checking in a rebuilt pics of my front end i did 1 year ago of my dodge ram 2009 model(here in Argentina), these are some pictures of the my carrier case:

 

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complete pics of the rebuilt procedure here:

 

https://picasaweb.google.com/108872204147686154185/DodgeRamFrontDifferential925Rebuilt?authkey=Gv1sRgCLf_zqSb95L12QE

 

Some working papers:

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and the explanation in this forum:

 

http://clubdodgeram.com/Foro/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1079

 

so, you can see the carrier of this 9.25 is this (#400314460) notice the number in the box

 

http://www.drivetrainamerica.com/p-13738-40031460-dodge-aam-925-front-loaded-standard-open-differential-case-07.aspx

 

and not this:

 

http://www.drivetrainamerica.com/p-4132-40035046-dodge-aam-925-gm-925-ifs-gm-95-loaded-open-differential-case.aspx

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Beautiful truck. (I'm partial as the owner of an '05 Ram 3500 Cummins.) Diesel power is a great investment...especially Cummins.

Trust you'll like the "new" gears. I understand your motive. Let us know if the 3.42 gearing is a good choice for your needs. The new gears should fit properly with your carrier.

Moses

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Not recommended.  Nearly all ring-and-pinion gear set kits come with new bolts that have special locking compound on the threads.  These bolts stretch in service and should not be re-torqued to the high tightening torque required on ring gear bolts.  Bolts of this high tensile are less ductile, and once stretched, they will likely break the next time they elongate under load.

 

On top of this, the thread locking compound adds additional load when loosening these bolts.  Cheap insurance and industry practice is to always install new bolts with a gear set change.  Use only the correct replacement bolts that meet the strength and tensile requirements. This means that you must only use ring gear bolts. 

 

Moses

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Of course you can source gears through Mopar, they should be selling the AAM design gears.  If you source from the general "aftermarket", you may not get the same quality as Mopar or AAM.  Be sure Mopar parts come with the Mopar label on the packaging.

 

There are some aftermarket gears that are of high quality as well.  In any case, get the best products to assure that you only need to do the gear change once.  As for speedometer correction, as you hinted earlier, there will be no need to correct the speedometer unless you change the diameter of the tires.  The speedometer drive is a tone ring attached to the rear differential that spins at the same speed as the ring gear. 

 

Moses

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Yes Moses, as say in this news from AAM, 4.10-3.73 and 3.42 has the same ring gear diameter, all of them, there are only two situation which you should setting up the peedometer 1- whether change for another ring gear diameter and/or 2- if you change the tires diameter, did you read this AAM news? its true? what you think about this AAM news??

 

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/american-axle--manufacturing-introduces-new-exclusive-342-powerdenser-gear-set-designed-to-improve-fuel-economy-58631527.html

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Interesting review of AAM and the 3.42 gears...However, this 3.42 ratio is more for vehicles like yours that do not tow.  The 48RE transmission would suffer from tall gearing and towing.  Glad that AAM endorses the 3.42 for applications like yours.

 

I did very well with the factory 3.73 gears and stock tires for fuel efficiency and towing.  When I went to 34.6" diameter tires, I did not do well with that gearing.  4.10 is the exact correction for the tire change.  I went to 4.56 instead, thinking I would be towing more. 

 

My fuel efficiency is so poor now that I will be changing to 4.10 gears (34.5" tires currently) this summer.  That will restore the performance and fuel efficiency to what the truck did stock.  I do have 1,100 pounds of accessories, wheels and oversized tires, including a 75-gallon metal fuel tank, plus a 4" chassis lift and poorer aerodynamics than stock.  I will likely never see the fuel mileage I got when the truck was stock and unmodified.  I would be content with 21-22 mpg when running on the highway at cruise speeds without a trailer. 

 

It would be worth considering a Gear Vendors overdrive as a possible solution.  That could work with stock gearing or, in my case, even with the 4.56 gears.  The accessory would provide 8 forward speeds.  Though a pricy package, the Gear Vendors overdrive allows split shifting and unique gearing choices.  The Gear Vendors overdrive could amortize cost over time with fuel savings if the truck is kept for a long time.

 

Moses

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yeah, my truck is totally stock, all as comes from factory, and with 4.10 ratio i cant reach 20 mpg to 130 km/h, imposible, un known guy from a forum has the 3.73 with 35, and got better mpg than I!!!!! i already bought the 3.42 gear ratio, when instaled and test it i'll tell you if the buy worth.

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What is the tire diameter?  Stock, too?  This should work with your driving plans...Is your truck a 2007 or 2009?  With the 5.9L Cummins and 48RE?  What year is the package, and is it for the Argentina market?

 

From your work last year, it looks like you know your way around the AAM rebuilding needs!  My how-to streaming video rental at Vimeo-On-Demand has been very popular for owners of Dodge Ram and GM truck owners with the AAM 11.5 and 9.25 axles.  Here's the link if you need a refresher or comparison on the axle rebuild:  http://www.vimeo.com/ondemand/aamaxlerebuild.

 

Good luck with the project and please let us know how the 3.42 gears work with the stock tires and this powertrain. 

 

Moses

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For sure i'll tell you how work, and thank you for your time typing for me!!!!! yes, it's a 2009 with 5.9 High Output (325 HP SAE) and 48RE Laramie Quadcab and genuine Michelin tyres (265/70-17), i never tow, i never haul, and i never load on bed, (perhaps once a year), just use it for travels on road, i use it as a car, but i like this truck with that engine, the best prices that i found in EEUU has this peoples: http://www.drivetrainamerica.com/default.aspx my options was the yukon and AAM but i choose AAM sets, my older brother has a Laramie 2500 6.7 2014, but i dislike the feeling behind that steering wheel, i like the feeling driving a 2009 with 5.9 engine, the 2500 6.7 run to 140 km/h and 2.000 rpm!!! but that truck has a six speed automatic and 18" wheel, mine has 17 inch, and with same ratio (3.42) mine would go to 140 km/h and 2.250 approximately, this is my vin: 3D7KS28709G500738, i had a 2001 XR650R too!!!
How can i watch the entire video??? or how can i download that video???

Moses, did you watch these pictures??

https://picasaweb.google.com/108872204147686154185/DodgeRamFrontDifferential925Rebuilt?authkey=Gv1sRgCLf_zqSb95L12QE&noredirect=1

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I think we're better off with the 5.9L Cummins.  My truck did not come with a catalytic converter or DEF.  Your truck likely is the same.  In the long run, we have similar power to the 6.7L in U.S. emissions form.  (Not sure whether your brother's 2014 6.7L Argentine model has the cat and DEF.)  I'm happy, and you are, too! 

 

The Vimeo On Demand video is a streaming rental.  Renters get the whole 66-minute video, which includes all segments.  The streaming rental is for a full 30-days to allow enough time for the work and reasonable parts delays.  (You likely will have your parts before you start the project.)  Many have benefitted and like this lengthy video, which just proves that when you want and need detailed information, 1 hour and 6-minutes of how-to video is far better than a five minute attempt at YouTube.

 

If you do rent the video, let me know how it helps...

 

Moses

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DEF is "diesel exhaust fluid".  It is used with the catalytic converter on later 6.7L exhaust systems to reduce pollution.  Here is wiki information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_exhaust_fluid.  Later U.S. diesel models have a special fluid system for DEF that must be filled periodically.

 

You mentioned an XR650R!  I'm always interested in dirt motorcycles.  I'd like to know more about your riding at Argentina.  We have a dirt and dual-sport motorcycle forum with KTM, Kawasaki and XR owners active...Join us there:  http://forums.4wdmechanix.com/forum/32-dirt-dual-sport-motorcycles/

 

Moses

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Thanks for the video comments, the AAM axle rebuild video has become popular...Use the crush collar if that is OEM on your axle.  The concern is to not over-crush the collar during installation and while setting bearing preload.  If you over-tighten the pinion bearing preload with the new crush sleeve, you cannot just back off the pinion nut.  You must use another new crush sleeve and tighten to specification. 

 

The crush sleeve must apply pressure to the backside of the bearing cone.  It takes a lot of torque to crush the sleeve.  Tighten very slowly and check bearing load carefully and often as you tighten the pinion nut.  Stop at the correct pinion bearing preload point. 

 

You have 30 days of rental time with the video...Stream it as many times as you like!

 

Moses

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Thank you Moses, my question was if you would prefer put in there a solid collar or the "classic" crush sleeve, i know setting both of them, crush sleeve its easier to set up, but solid involve a harder work to setting up the pinion, of course, after setting the pinion depth configuration with his depth shims to reach the desirable shift pattern between pinion and ring, in my front is already has solid collar that i got a desirable pinion preload of 17 in/pound of drag, but i'll need to make and machining the new solid for the rear end, but that it is an easy work, just choose a good steel pipe, several sheems and "go for it", perhaps the next week i get all things in my house, and the next month the rear end ring and pinion set, the brand choose by me was AAM for both differentials, just like you would find inside the mopar box, i plan to change almost everything, except the bearings, front are about twelve miles on it, and the rear are from factory, about 70 k miles on it, but the rear bearings i'll check if need to change it, if don't, i'll use same four bearings, do you understand my english??? and learned this language in high school and university, i'm an accountant but i love make any fix or upgrade to my truck myself, and thank you again for spend your time to type me, thanx a lot, and for sure when i finish and tested the 3.42 with stock wheels i'll tell you the fuel eficiency, and others.-

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Your English is a lot better than my Spanish!  I studied two years of Spanish at the high school level and did well, though I did not continue to study Spanish when pursuing my college degree.  The language as taught at high school level was Castilian, and in the U.S., the common spoken Spanish is not that formal.  I have had little opportunity to speak conversationally, so my Spanish has deteriorated over the years.

 

Amazing that you would fabricate the solid sleeve to length.  You must enjoy machine work!  The crush sleeves are actually quite reliable if the installer does not over-crush the ring and attempt to compensate by backing off the pinion nut.  The crush sleeve offers considerable counterforce at the backside of the bearing if installed correctly.  One needs to be patient and careful when tightening the pinion nut and crushing the sleeve to the correct in-lb pinion bearing preload. 

 

Have fun with your project.  Your solid sleeve sounds worthy of some photographs!  Shimming is much like a vintage Spicer/Dana axle.

 

Moses

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No Moses, i'll ask to another guy that make the solid for me, and i was talking about add or remove shims from the pinion and inner bearing to reach the correct shift pattern, and also needs add or remove shims between bearing and solid sleeve to get the correct pinion preload, now, talking about the language, you can speak in spanish with me and practice whenever you want, spanish its a bit harder to learn than english, sometimes i like speak the british english accent, it sounds a little funny for me, the harder english to understand when speak fast is people from Dublin, north of Ireland, and harder spanish to understand is the Colombian, center of America.
Asi que Moses, si hablamos español tal vez yo escriba con el acento tan particular que tenemos los argentinos, que tipo de acento español podés hablar? el argentino dice "podés" los demas hispanoparlantes dicen "puedes", ustedes en ingles tambien tienen distintas palabras, no?

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Argentina is apparently unique!  See this thread:  http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2074591.  Interesting how language changes between cultures.  In the U.S., there are areas of the country where English is very different, sometimes difficult to understand.  "British" English is very different.  We often watch British films and wish they were scrolling "English" text at the footer.  Agreed, Irish "English" can be even more difficult.  Of course, we think our version of English is correct.  That is cultural influence. 

 

Curious why you like the idea of not using a crush sleeve.  The sleeve is a proven design and saves a good deal of time if installed only after the pinion depth is correct and when just the bearing preload is involved.  When I use a crush sleeve, I leave it out while adjusting the pinion depth or trial fitting the ring and pinion (as shown in my video).  The sleeve is not necessary for trial fitting.  It can be installed as the last step during pinion setup.  I also do not use the new pinion nut until the last step.  From my video, you also know that I trial fit with "dummy" bearings, with inside material removed from a set of used bearings in reasonably good condition.  By easily trial fitting and taking measurements, I know that the new crush sleeve and new pinion nut will only need to be installed once.  I use sealant and Loctite during this final setup...

 

Does the video help break through the language barrier?  I find that audio-visual is very useful when offering procedures to a multi-lingual audience.  When I taught automotive technology and welding, that was my goal...I believe audio-visual, especially video graphics, is superior in this way.

 

Moses

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  • 1 month later...

Hey Ludel, long time no see you, how are you? finally i got all AAM parts for the swap, today i was setting the pinion, i started with the OEM depth shim, i REALLY REALLY AND REALLY hope the tooth pattern be right in the first attempt, because i dont want disassemble the carrier again, my truck has Trac-Rite carrier and it is too heavy!!! i have a couple of queston for you, i was setting the pinion with solid collar and shims, in the 4th attempt i get 8 to 10 in/pounds of drag, (Note: im using original used bearings, they are perfect), what do you think about this torque pinion preload for used bearings? set there or.....disassemble it again to remove a bit of material from that solid collar and get about 15???  yukon says the pinion preload with new bearings is 20-30 in/lbs and with used bearings 8-11, AAM and crhysler says with new is 15-25 PPL and with used bearings is 10-20.

I really want to avoid disassemble all again to configure the deep of the pinion!!!!! i read somewhere in some forum or something that the setting tooth pattern in about 80% get a very nice pattern using the factory depth shim, and more if use the same set ring and pinion brand, what you think about all this??? what do you think about that alluminium cover??? what torque recommend me with solid collar? yukon says with preload shim design must be between 200 and 300 f/lbs.

To remove carefully the inner pinion bearing was so hard, about 15 tons, warm it and a couple of taps with a chisel and hammer to realesae the bearing and get it and depht shim to reused it after, i have a splitter but is too small for the 11.5 AAM, so i had to homemade one.

 

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Hey Ludel, long time no see you, how are you? finally i got all AAM parts for the swap, today i was setting the pinion, i started with the OEM depth shim, i REALLY REALLY AND REALLY hope the tooth pattern be right in the first attempt, because i dont want disassemble the carrier again, my truck has Trac-Rite carrier and it is too heavy!!! i have a couple of queston for you, i was setting the pinion with solid collar and shims, in the 4th attempt i get 8 to 10 in/pounds of drag, (Note: im using original used bearings, they are perfect), what do you think about this torque pinion preload for used bearings? set there or.....disassemble it again to remove a bit of material from that solid collar and get about 15???  yukon says the pinion preload with new bearings is 20-30 in/lbs and with used bearings 8-11, AAM and crhysler says with new is 15-25 PPL and with used bearings is 10-20.

I really want to avoid disassemble all again to configure the deep of the pinion!!!!! i read somewhere in some forum or something that the setting tooth pattern in about 80% get a very nice pattern using the factory depth shim, and more if use the same set ring and pinion brand, what you think about all this??? what do you think about that alluminium cover??? what torque recommend me with solid collar? yukon says with preload shim design must be between 200 and 300 f/lbs.

To remove carefully the inner pinion bearing was so hard, about 15 tons, warm it and a couple of taps with a chisel and hammer to realesae the bearing and get it and depht shim to reused it after, i have a splitter but is too small for the 11.5 AAM, so i had to homemade one.

 

 

I really like the thoroughness and detail in your work!  Good job... 

 

To answer your questions:

 

1)  If your pinion drag is not start-up drag but instead is rotating drag, 10 in-lb will work.  The issue with being on the lighter load side would be load resistance.  You don't pull a horse trailer (or any other heavy loads).  Make a point of "breaking-in" the axle and not subjecting it to heavy loads or extended driving periods in hot weather for at least the first three hundred miles.  This will minimize any bearing wear during critical break-in of the ring-and-pinion.  Use synthetic gear lube.  Since the bearings have been in the axle for some time, they should be at full run-in and should not wear much over a long period of time.

 

Note: When you test pinion load with your custom made solid collar, make sure you're using enough torque on the nut.  You're using the old nut for trial fit, right?  (Did you find my video useful, where I grind off the locking pinch on the old nut for trial fitting?)  With your solid spacer collar in place, try torqueing the pinion nut to 250 ft-lbs before testing pinion bearing preload.  You might discover that the preload is right on.

 

2)  If you do remove the custom solid collar and shave material from it, you will increase the pinion bearing preload.  A slight lapping/polishing or quick belt sanding with softer grit could remove 0.001" or so.  I'm amazed that the solid collar delivers this degree of pinion bearing preload.  No shims?  If you're using shims, try removing 0.001" inch of shim stack height.  That would tighten the preload/drag slightly. 

 

3)  Everything relies upon proper pinion depth.  AAM claims that its gear cut accuracy allows use of the original (OEM) shim stack thickness for setting the pinion depth.  If that is true, I would set up the pinion to that standard then pay close attention to the ring-and-pinion backlash setting.  I set my 11.5" axle at 0.0055" backlash with an aftermarket (non-AAM) gear set.  I knew these gears would run-in.  If I were to measure backlash after break-in and towing, I'm certain it would be 0.006".  The tooth contact pattern was excellent during set-up.  There is no banging or "backlash" noise, in fact, this is a "quiet" axle for 4.56 ratio.  (4.56 is notably louder than 4.10 or 4.30 gears.  4.56 is a 9-tooth pinion instead of 10 teeth.)  My axle makes no noise under acceleration, deceleration or coast.  I am very particular and can "feel" the float (unloaded either direction) when passing through coast.  I know there is driveline damping/balance error, and I do plan to upgrade to an aftermarket driveshaft at some point soon.

 

I typically run backlash at either the narrower side or at the middle of the OE settings.  I do not fiddle with extra pinion depth.  It is a mistake to intentionally set the pinion "a little deeper" than specified.  Some believe the additional tooth contact depth is a good thing, and it's not.  I always use the OEM pinion depth setting and bearing preloads.  For backlash, especially with aftermarket (non-AAM) or un-lapped gears, I allow slight room for run-in/break-in seating.  Set the pinion depth and preload, then concentrate on backlash and tooth contact pattern.  Carrier bearing preload is combined pinion load plus the carrier/diff case bearing settings.  That's the last item on the list.  Strive for the correct tooth contact pattern.

 

As for pinion nut torque setting, I would agree with Yukon.  You have a hybrid setup with your solid, custom made collar instead of a new crush sleeve.  It takes considerable torque to crush the OEM sleeve, and that would be in the realm of 300-plus ft-lbs.   The closest axle size to our AAM 11.5" that uses shims and no crush sleeve would be a Dana 70, which calls for 250-270 ft-lbs on its pinion nut.  A Dana 60 pinion nut is also 250-270 ft-lbs.  (A Dana 80 with 11" ring gear calls for 440-500 ft-lbs on its pinion nut, which would be too much and likely strip the AAM pinion nut or shaft threads.)  Since you have no other guideline for your application, a reasonable torque would be 250-270 ft-lbs with a new self-locking pinion nut and some Loctite on the threads for insurance.

 

Moses

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Yes Moses, your video was lot of helpfull!!!, no, i ordered an special trial nut, just final i will use the new genuine nut, i make a mistake, i set the pinion preload before pinion depht!!! i´ll have to re-set the pinion preload, i can´t find the gear marking compound in any stores, so, i had to make my own gear marking compound and work fine, do you know the composition or how they make the marking compound??? well, i left some pics below with several attempt to get the correct pinion depht, i hope your opinion:

 

This pic was taken before disassembly:

WHTLMAj.jpg

qWsRt5j.jpg

 

I forgot take pictures in first attempt using the oem pinion shim depht (0.52"), so this are the pic in the second attempt and a 0.008" added and a total of 0.60":

NkfOWEX.jpg

6QCs9B8.jpg

 

In this attempt, i removed material from a 0.008" depht shim and that gave me a total of 0.058" with 0.006" shim and gave a slighty shalow

HKECNJ3.jpg

zUcPN28.jpg

 

Here i think is the final set because i'm back to 0.008" shim with my own homemade gear marking compound!!!! this gave me a very nice patter (but, what do you think?), slighty deep...perhaps:

m8agkNC.jpg

I6bASAN.jpg

3VJN2Lq.jpg

BdsVBM3.jpg

 

Do you know if the speedo can set with this new 3.42 ratio? or the signal pick it up from front ABS?? if don't, do you know the steps to make the set with the Starscan or Witech Chrysler tools???

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The last reading pattern was wrong, why? I FORGOT TIGHTEN THE CARRIER BEARINGS CUPS BOLTS!!!!! so, i put new pics here below of "REAL" last pattern, after retighten the carrier bearings cup bolts, the patter shows a slighty deep in the drive and the coast, and there is a couple of picture of pinion pattern obtained:

 

h4gicVY.jpg

Sa47jPP.jpg

ZLmlAwZ.jpg

lcmkZZP.jpg

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Apbtmaxx...The pattern picture that you like is optimal!  Nice work...

 

If this impression is with a slight load on the pinion/ring gear (like setting the parking brake to drag slightly as you rotate the rear pinion shaft), you've got it!  For the front axle, you can wrap a shop rag around the backside of the pinion flange and twist the rag to create a "tourniquet" and some resistance.  Hold the twisted rag to create a slight drag on the pinion shaft as you rotate the ring gear by its tightened bolts, using a box ended wrench.  This slight drag will make an accurate tooth pattern impression.

 

The tooth contact paste looks right, did you make it with titanium dioxide?  Titanium dioxide can be purchased from any artist's paint source.

 

As for the speedometer, we're in luck with the AAM axles.  The tone ring is attached to the differential case.  The notched tone ring always rotates at rear wheel speed.  If your tire diameter is the same, the axle gear ratio change will not effect the speedometer accuracy.  The thing that creates speedometer error is a change in tire diameter.  As long as you still have the stock 265/70R17 tires, you will have no speedometer error. 

 

The 9.25" front axle ratio must be the same as the 11.5" rear axle.  Are you doing the 9.25" front axle next?

 

Moses

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Thank you Moses, that pattern was with old bearings (slighty deep), but today i set with all new bearings and the ring gear teeth patern gave me a enough deep pattern, no, i didnt make with titanium dioxide, i make it with some yello "John Deere" paint, yellow Ferrite, lithium grease and diaper rash cream!!!!  what u think? lol, nice mixture eh!!!!, yes, the next work is swap the front end.

I can´t set the parking brake because it hasn't the axle shaft because i move the truck to my garage, i work outside when make that job.

The speedometer is working without the rear differential!!!!!!!, so, or the speedo picks the signal up from the front ABS sensor or from automatic transmission tail or somethink, i don't know what i'll do with my sppedo, maybe take it to the Chrysler dealer and plug the Starscan or Witech ad set the speedo for the new ratio???? what do you say???

I'm a little frustrated!!! set the pinion depht is the worse part of the differential configuration!!!!! i think the slighty deep patern in the ring teeth is the best bussines and i get that condition with 0.060" (OEM 0.052 and 0.008" plus) with OLD bearings, and i think with new bearing the ring gear teeth pattern can shows a little deeper??? well, today i set the pinion depht with all new bearings, as i said above, with nice and clean installation accuracy races and others, so, a slighty deep (old bearings) and a little deeper (with new bearings) gave me a deep enough ring gear teeth pattern, pics below and i real need an advice from you!!, change the plus shim 0.006" in place of 0.008"??? i have "relative" time, but less patience than the first day....

My fear is if i use the 0.006" the pattern give me a slighty shallow, and i want a slighty deep pattern, what u think?

 

 

Coast:
ibyMNtJ.jpg

UNN2ijn.jpg

Drive:
LUJWS88.jpg

8YB2AXc.jpg

mvcDtU6.jpg

Pinion teeth too shallow:
oK3Ite5.jpg

Pulling the pinion out:
C57ftKe.jpg

 

I real need a skill advice!!!

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The speedometer does work from the rear differential.  The notched tooth tone ring between the rear axle's ring gear and the carrier is the drive signal for the speedometer.  The pickup is at the top of the axle housing in line with the tone ring. 

 

Imagine the rear axle's differential case turning at the same speed as the tone ring.  (Tone ring is sandwiched between ring gear and carrier flange).  As the rear wheels turn, the ring gear and tone ring turn together.  The speed signal is in relationship to the carrier and rear wheel speed

 

The only thing that will create an error in the speed signal is if you change tire diameter or "revolutions per mile" of the tires.  When you change tire diameter, there is a software reflash provision in the PCM/ECM/ECU (whatever you prefer to call it) for changing the revolutions per mile.  Here is the way you change the speedometer reading to match tire diameter.  I use a DRB-III scan tool for this task:

 

http://www.4wdmechanix.com/How-to-Dodge-Ram-Speedometer-Calibration.html

 

For quickly checking speedometer error, here is another article and video:

 

http://www.4wdmechanix.com/How-to-Measuring-Speedometer-Error.html

 

In your case, you do not need to correct for error since the tire diameter remains the same as stock.

 

Regarding your final tooth pattern, it looks great!  You want this reading at the drive and coast sides of the ring gear teeth.  (Disregard the pinion gear pattern.)  If the ring gear tooth pattern is correct like your pictures indicate, then you have the correct pinion tooth pattern. 

 

As for removal of the pinion shaft, this is why I create the dummy bearings shown in my streaming video rental at www.vimeo.com/ondemand/aamaxlerebuild.  I always perform tests and trial fits with dummy bearings.  I only install the new pinion bearings once.  You reused your original bearings, so this required pressing the bearings on and off repeatedly to install pinion shims and test the pinion depth. 

 

I have dummy fit bearings for all of the popular axles that I work on.  When I do remove a pinion shaft from tight bearings, my technique is the air chisel with a blunt ended punch as I illustrate in the rental video.  Pressing bearings out will risk damaging the cones (rollers) and cups, another reason for using dummy bearings for trial fitting.  I only install the new bearing on the new pinion shaft after establishing the correct pinion depth and bearing preload with dummy bearings.

 

Note:  I give instructions in the 11.5"/9.25" AAM axle how-to rental video on how to make the dummy bearings from used bearings that are in good condition.  Bearings have very close tolerances.  Trial fitting with old (dummy) bearing cones nearly always produces the same results as new bearings.  (The dummy bearings must not have noticeable wear.)  If installing new bearings, I use new bearing cups to bring the tolerances even closer while trial fitting.  I make dummy bearings from used bearings that still look and feel serviceable.

 

Footnote:  If this is your final tooth pattern for coast and drive at 0.006", you're good.  I used a 0.0055" backlash setting in my video example to allow run-in of the new bearings and any lapping changes of the ring and pinion teeth.  That 1/2-thousandth of an inch allowance is plenty.  A base setting of 0.006" backlash with new gears and bearings is also fine, the seating of bearings and lapping of gears during run-in will create a final read around 0.0065", which would also be quiet and work well.  On a big ring gear like this 11.5" AAM, the 0.005" setting is too close in my opinion.  Here, the issue is heat build-up, not necessarily "tight gears".  OEM calls for 0.005"-0.007", and I want an after break-in read of 0.006".

 

One thing I like about Dana-Spicer and manufacturers other than AAM is the use of pinion gearhead markings for setting pinion gear depth.  (These are the +/- marks or engravings in thousands of an inch to indicate the OEM pinion head height adjustment.)  AAM does not do this, and instead, we have to do extra work.  The factory sets up pinion depth with a pinion block, spacers and a bearing cap centerline fixture.  I have the entire setup for all popular Dana/Spicer axles but not for the AAM.  I'm in the same situation as others when setting pinion depth:  trial fit, set backlash and read the tooth contact pattern.  It would be nice if AAM would adapt the approach that Dana/Spicer, AMC and others have used for years.  This enables simple math to determine the right pinion depth shim stack when changing the ring-and-pinion gears.

 

AAM claims that their own replacement gear sets will work with the stock/OEM pinion shim stack—no adjustments needed.  If you used AAM gears, that was not what you encountered.  You added shim height, right?

 

Moses

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Moses, i understand what you say, but as i said the 0.006" (not the backlash), is the depht shim added to a OEM 0.052" depht shim, giving a total depht shim of 0.058", understand?

Moses, i´m setting the differencial outdoor, but at night, i move the truck to my garage, so, i check the speedo when i move the truck without the rear carrier (no ring gear, no tone ring, no axle shaft, anything) and the speedo work anyway!!!. What do you think about that???

My truck is this:

En6vCud.jpg

2010 model here, maybe the 2007 model in USA.

Anyway my backlash target is 0.006"

all AAM Gear set (rear and front) and all new bearings, 0.006" depht shim plus (0.052" + 0.006" = 0.58") gave me a slightly shallow patern, and with 0.008" + 0.052" = 0.060" shows a little deeep patern, so tomorrow i'll try with 0.007" plus.

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EUREKA!!!! Moses, i found how the speedo picks up the signal!!! not from rear tone wheel, at least in my case the speedo picks up the signal from the front ABS sensor, today morning i umplugged both front ABS sensor and the speedo stop working, so, i'll check the final pattern i'll post some pics, then, i'll re-gear the front differential.

 

ARIEL.-

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apbtmaxx...There are three ABS wheel speed sensors on our Ram trucks:  Front left wheel, front right wheel and the rear axle at the differential/tone ring.  The rear axle ABS pickup is at the top of the rear axle housing above the tone ring.  This signal works for both rear wheels and is part of our 4-wheel ABS system.  The system compares the wheel speeds to determine when there is a potential or actual wheel lockup.  Thus the term "anti-lock brake system"!

 

Note: The ABS wheel speed signals provide the speedometer's speed signal.  Some vehicles, especially those without ABS, pick up the vehicle speed signal at either the transmission (2WD) or the transfer case (4WD) output shaft. 

 

For four-wheel ABS on our trucks, all four wheels must produce a wheel speed signal.  Front left and right work independently and measure each wheel's speed.  The ABS system will compare the wheel speed readings with the rear axle/wheel speed.  The rear axle pickup senses the speed for both rear wheels.  From your experience, disconnecting front ABS sensors will apparently interrupt the speedometer signal.

 

As for gear ratios and wheel speed changes, the same rule applies for the front or rear of the vehicle.  The tire diameter at the front or rear determines the speed signals from the ABS sensors.  Pulses will change as the revolutions per mile of the tire change.  If you watch my (free) video at the magazine on calibrating the speedometer, you will see that the adjustment/correction of the speedometer is actually an ABS calibration.  ABS and speedometer calibration depend upon accurate wheel speed readings measured in tire/wheel revolutions per mile.  Each tire diameter has a specific revolutions per mile.  This represents the circumference difference between tire diameters. 

 

Note:  The circumference formula is simply C = Pi X Diameter.  Be aware that actual diameter of a tire can vary from the manufacturer's listed diameter due to rim width differences.  This also affects the revolutions per mile.

 

Since you are keeping the front and rear tire size the same as stock diameter (265/70R17), the speedometer will remain correct.  ABS sensor signals at the front wheels will continue to match the rear axle ABS (tone ring) sensor speed signal—regardless of the axle gear ratios.  Change tire diameter, and the speedometer must be recalibrated.

 

Glad you've finished the rear axle...The front will be a bit more involved with the axle shafts and hubs removal.

 

Keep us posted.  Your photos are very clear and helpful to others!

 

Moses

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THANK YOU SO MUCH MOSES for the info!!!! i have a question, when i finnished the pinion depth settings, the next step was the pinion preload, and when a reaches a 17 ft/lbs, pull out the flange to instal the oil seal, when i instaled the oil seal it hear a something like dragging like a rubber against something, do you say that can be the rubber of the oil seal sleeve???, it is not so ease with solid spacer because involve several attempts to reach a desirable preload, tomorrow i'll set the backlash and total preload, last pattern check, and that end should be done.

What do you think about this pinion preload? 17 ft-pounds???

Thank you Moses for westing your time to type you info for me!!!!!

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apbtmaxx...As long as the drag is "rubber" sounding and not metal, it's likely the seal.  The seal has a flange seat, so you cannot set the seal too deeply...I apply light chassis grease to the seal's lip gap before installation of the seal.  This reduces friction.  (Oil will reach the seal quickly if you overlooked that step.)  After completing the axle work and filling the axle to normal capacity with gear lube, I keep the truck raised off the ground on my 5-ton (each) jack stands beneath the rear axle tubes as shown in my video.  I carefully run the truck on the jack stands in 2WD mode, using 1st gear only and keeping the engine at an idle.  Before driving the truck, I allow oil to circulate across the axle and reach all bearings and seals. 

 

Be clear that these preload readings are in in-lbs and not ft-lbs.  Setting pinion preload with used/original bearings at 17 in-lbs (inch-pounds, not foot-pounds) would be okay.  For new pinion bearings on the 11.5" AAM axle, I'd go for 20-25 in-lbs (not foot-pounds).  Pinion preload is set without any differential carrier or ring gear drag.  Final preload of the combined ring-and-pinion bearings includes the pinion bearing preload plus the differential carrier bearing preload.  Here are the factory specifications and bearing preloads for the AAM 11.5" axle's pinion and carrier bearings (new and used/original bearings) measured in in-lbs:

 

Ram 2500/3500 Rear Axle Ratio 3.73, 4.10 with Ring Gear Diameter 292 mm (11.5 in.)

 

Ring Gear Backlash 0.13-0.18 mm (0.005-0.007 in.)

 

Pinion Bearing Preload - New Bearings 1.69-2.82 N·m (15-25 in. lbs.)

 

Pinion Bearing Preload - Original Bearings 1-2 N·m (10-20 in. lbs.)

 

Pinion Bearing Preload + Differential Case Bearing Preload - New Bearing 3.4-5.6 N·m (30-50 in. lbs.)

 

Pinion Bearing Preload + Differential Case Bearing Preload - Original Bearing 2.8-5.1 N·m (25-45 in. lbs.)

 

Pinion Bearing Preload + Differential Case Bearing Preload - New Bearing 3.4-5.6 N·m (30-50 in. lbs.)

 

Pinion Bearing Preload + Differential Case Bearing Preload - Original Bearing 2.8-5.1 N·m (25-45 in. lbs.)

 

I trust this is helpful...

 

Moses

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Moses, the sound was the extra lip of the seal sleeve, yes, i know the difference, inch-pounds is another thing, Finally i set mi rear end:

Pinion Depth: 0.59".

Ring Gear Tooth Pattern: slightly deep.

Pinion Bearing Preload: 17 inch-pounds.

Total Bearing Preload: 32 inch-pond.

Backlash: 

0,155

0,16

0,17

0,17

0,165

0,15

0,14

0,145

0,15

0,17

0,18

0,17

0,15

0,15

0,145

0,15

0,16

0,16

0,145

0,15

0,15

Today i took a ride on my truck and i can say now i'm so impressed!!!, an average of 4 literss less in every 100 kilometros, 140 km/h 14.3 liters!!! the difference is huge!!!! it need 18 liters and 140 km/h before!!!,

wxpTv6A.jpg

TCrr5K8.jpg

a9ZU9qL.jpg

vvj8drY.jpg

mf40DSi.jpg

jgWo0Ek.jpg

OOM8NtM.jpg

oC1axo4.jpg

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I'm guessing you mean 0.059" (not 0.59") shim stack on the pinion depth...You were very careful and "by the book" on this entire job.  Your results will pay off with many years of trouble-free service.  Congratulations, one axle done, one to go!

 

Very impressed with the immediate difference in fuel efficiency!!!  Axle gearing plays a big role, especially with the Cummins ISB engines.  Since you do not tow heavy loads, this 3.42 gear set should be practical.  The only other approach would have been a Gear Vendors overdrive, and this axle gearing change is far less expensive.  It did the trick.

 

What was the original pinion shim thickness?  AAM claims that you can use the OEM shim stack height with its replacement gears.  Did you add shim thickness to get the right setting?  You did this accurately.

 

Nice work, very thorough!

 

Moses

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Thank you a lot Moses!!! yes yes, i mean 0.058", the OEM depth shim is a 0.052" and was too shallow.

Wwhat do you think about above setting numbers? pinion preload, total preload, backlash, etc??

Only on the coast side the pattern is favor to toe, but just slightly deep on the drive side, and centered hill to toe. Tomorrow i'll disassemble the front end.-

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Your settings will work well.  Regarding your slightly deep drive side pattern, it's okay because the thrust and load in service will create a good pattern with this setting. 

 

What torque figure did you use for the new pinion nut and your solid pinion bearing spacer?

 

Looks like time to do the front axle!

 

Moses

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Thank you!!! for pinion nut i used 350 feet-pounds and gave me between 15 and 17 inch-pounds, yes, today i disassembled the front end, tomorrow i change the gears, i'm thinking to re-use the bearings they are in a very good condition, only 15.000 miles on them.-

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Hey Moses, here i put some pictures about the front axle with 3.42 depth setting:

 

Inicial depth setting with OEM depth shim 0.029"

Drive: too shallow

gCssIoR.jpg

Coast: Idem

XJVneBH.jpg

 

With 0.0315" (0.029" + 0.0025")

Drive:

fqM69Gs.jpg

Coast:

XCIEt79.jpg

 

With 0.034" (0.029" + 0.005")

Drive:

SQw7cfn.jpg

Coast:

LhxRsZ2.jpg

Pinion:

MXFggSF.jpg

 

And the FINAL Pattern with 0.037" (0.029" + 0.008") Found my target....Slightly deep!!!!

Drive:

KwXaUQ1.jpg

Coast:

rF9Kjdv.jpg

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Are you making a solid spacer for the front pinion?  If you're using a crush sleeve, your only concern would be pinion bearing preload with a new crush sleeve and new pinion nut.  If you are making a solid spacer and not using the crush sleeve, I would set the pinion nut to 270 ft. lbs., following my Dana 60 or 70 example.  It takes well over 300 ft. lbs. (some claim 400 ft. lbs.) to crush a crush sleeve; however, that is not the torque that remains as the crush sleeve and nut take a set.  If you use a custom solid sleeve like you did at the rear axle, 300 ft. lbs. with a "solid" spacer would be plenty. 

 

I would strive for 15 in. lbs. (inch pounds, I'm sure you mean) for used 9.25" pinion bearings that have run-in.  At 15K miles these bearings have an accurate set.  Here are the factory specs for pinion preload:

 

AXLE SPECIFICATIONS

DESCRIPTION SPECIFICATION

 

Axle Ratio 3.73, 4.10, 4.56 Ring Gear Diameter 235 mm (9.25 in.)

Ring Gear Backlash 0.13-0.18 mm (0.005-0.007 in.)

Pinion Bearing Preload - New Bearing 1.7-2.8 N·m (15-25 in. lbs.)

Pinion Bearing Preload - Original Bearing 1.1-2.2 N·m (10-20 in. lbs.)

Pinion Bearing Preload + Differential Case Bearing Preload - New Bearing 3.4-5.6 N·m (30-50 in. lbs.)

Pinion Bearing Preload + Differential Case Bearing Preload - Original Bearing 2.8-5.1 N·m (25-45 in. lbs.)

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The inch torque wrench set between 10-12 inch-lbs of torque in pinion preload, and it is using solid too, and the pinion nut set in 280 ft-lbs of toruqe, so, for used bearings according factory 10 is minimun acceptable for used bearing, so, between 10 and 12 it's right??? what do you think? total torque set in 32 inch-lbs, back lash between 0.12mm and 0.16mm.

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The pinion bearings are run-in yet in excellent condition, so 10-12 in. lbs. is acceptable.  You could go up to 20 in. lbs. on pinion preload and still be good here.  15-18 in. lbs. would be good numbers if the bearings are in top condition.  280 ft. lbs. on the nut with a custom solid spacer will be very secure.  I recommend Loctite Threadlocker on the new pinion nut threads.  Loctite Threadlocker will help maintain the torque setting over time.

 

Like before with the rear axle, check final pinion preload setting after tightening the test nut to 280 ft. lbs.  This will take all movement out of the custom made spacer, flange and pinion.  The measurement will be accurate.  If you raise the preload on the pinion to 18 in. lbs., the total would only increase by 6-8 in. lbs.  Combined preload for pinion and carrier bearings would be 38-40 in. lbs.  These would be good numbers for original bearings in top condition.

 

Moses

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