Shotgun Jimmy Posted January 19, 2015 Share Posted January 19, 2015 Hi, all. My CJ5 has rot issues; at one point I was thinking of doing a classic resto; but due to the extent of the rot I have decided to turn it into a rock crawler... I have out in the back pasture a 73' IH 1210 3/4 ton 4x4, w/ good axles; 4.56 gearing... Front axle on the IH is a Dana 44 HD w/ open knuckles & drum brakes. Rear is a D60. The CJ has a front Dana 30 & rear Dana 44. One reason I want the full size axles under theCJ is to maintain decent center of balance/ gravity for the lift it's going to need w/ the larger tires & wheels I want to run. Besides relocating & welding in different spring perches/ SOA & a cut & turn; what else do you all think would be needed for this IH D44 front axle to work under my CJ? The steering would be aftermarket crossover. I suppose I could get my hands on a dana 60 front axle out of a chevy 1 ton; along w/ the GM14 bolt rear; I know where a an 85' K30 parts truck sits; but it has high miles on it, & would cost me $1400; & besides already owning these IH parts, they all have very low miles on them...Any ideas or suggestions? Any advice or comments would probably be helpful, thanks in advance, J.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted January 20, 2015 Administrators Share Posted January 20, 2015 Welcome to the forums, Shotgun Jimmy!...Sounds like an innovative project. The CJ-5 is a 1974 chassis? What powertrain (inline six or 304 V-8, or a swap)? The '73 I-H transfer case and axles are premium stuff. This should be a New Process 205 gear drive transfer case. Is the transmission an A727 Torqueflite automatic or a rugged manual 4-speed—or the rare Clark 5-speed? Please share a list of equipment, there is much in the I-H that would contribute to a major rock crawler. Let's put our heads together on this one! Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60Bubba Posted January 20, 2015 Share Posted January 20, 2015 Moses, Do the IH axles J.D. described above have the caster issue of some of the Scout axles? I seem to remember reading that the Scout axles had zero degrees of caster, as opposed to the stock 5-6 degrees. I can't imagine it would matter for a rock crawler anyway, but I was just curious. Case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted January 20, 2015 Administrators Share Posted January 20, 2015 Case, this front axle likely has drum brakes—big ones. If so, the axle is a large closed knuckle Dana 44, rated 3500#. The I-H code could be an FA-18, and maybe Shotgun Jimmy can provide more information from the factory Line Ticket. If so, the factory caster angle for this axle is 1/2-degree positive. As you hint, this could encourage a front axle/kingpin shimmy and is a very puzzling configuration. The open knuckle light truck Dana axles of that era were showing 5- to 7-degrees positive caster, which offers much better steering return to center and less risk of shimmy. Jeep closed knuckles do well at 4 degrees positive caster. These are all Spicer/Dana type beam axles. I'm unclear why I-H does this nearly "straight up" caster on these models. The most caster shown in 4x4 I-H models to 1980 is 2 to 3 degrees positive, and these are likely open knuckle designs! There must have been a reason as these settings went on year after year. Maybe concern about tire wear or kingpin/knuckle bearing loads—or snow plow use, or the front U-joint angle? This light caster angle also impacts the turning radius...A quality steering damper would be mandatory. Were it my truck, Scout or Scout II, I would throw 4 degrees positive caster into the setting and see what develops! Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shotgun Jimmy Posted January 23, 2015 Author Share Posted January 23, 2015 It has the 4 speed, which I believe is a Muncie? SM 432, is that right? I'll have to look that up. 10 spline NP205 transfer case; when I first got the truck I thought it would have a closed knockle Dana 44; surprise, surprise; open knuckle HD version w/ drum brakes...Aparently 73 is the only year that International did this... So I believe a disc brake conversion would not be too difficult. I'll have to check the castor on the axle; if it's 0 degrees (like a scout), a cut & turn will be necessary for the lift. I have read that the 10 spline output shaft on the NP205 can be swapped for a 32 spline, much tougher... I am almost wondering if I should consider restoring the 1210; although the bed is pretty much trash & there is no tailgate; I could always build a flatbed on the back...This truck has very low miles on it; it's just that the bed is beyond restoration; basically hammered. But it does run like a top, 345 v8. Slight ransfer case leak & terrible oil pan gasket leak. What to do w/ the CJ? It has a Borg warner 4 speed in it; Dana 44 rear, dana 30 front axle & dana 20 transfer case. Some PO put a Rancho 2.5" lift under it; other than that it's pretty much stock. Has the original hardtop. 252 6 cylinder engine. 106,000 original miles. Has a roll cage; either aftermarket installed by a PO, or it's Jeep- same color as the body, but the body has been repainted. The tub under the floor mats, rockers & corners are rust out. Everything seems to work, but it has a bad engine main seal leak & some carb issues, which I believe are due to old gas/ ethanol... Dana 60 front & 14 bolt rear would be nice w/ maybe a v8 conversion? lift, crossover steering? Decisions, decisions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted January 23, 2015 Administrators Share Posted January 23, 2015 Informative post, Shotgun Jimmy! I'm replying below in highlight...Moses It has the 4 speed, which I believe is a Muncie? SM 432, is that right? I'll have to look that up. Likely a New Process 435, though the SM465 Muncie was in the field at the time for GM trucks...I-H liked Chrysler for the A727 automatic and may have partnered with Chrysler's NP Gear for the 4-speeds. I-H also used T98, T18 and T19 Borg-Warner units on various models. 10 spline NP205 transfer case; when I first got the truck I thought it would have a closed knockle Dana 44; surprise, surprise; open knuckle HD version w/ drum brakes...Aparently 73 is the only year that International did this... Yippee, much better with open knuckle!...Dana went to open knuckle front axles on Jeep, Ford, GM, Dodge and I-H models during this period, though Ford and I-H stayed with drum front brakes longer on their 3/4-ton trucks. Even Jeep CJs held out, your '74 is drum front brakes with the open knuckle Dana 30. So I believe a disc brake conversion would not be too difficult. I'll have to check the castor on the axle; if it's 0 degrees (like a Scout), a cut & turn will be necessary for the lift. I have read that the 10 spline output shaft on the NP205 can be swapped for a 32 spline, much tougher... Advance Adapters can clarify this and has many conversion pieces... I am almost wondering if I should consider restoring the 1210; although the bed is pretty much trash & there is no tailgate; I could always build a flatbed on the back...This truck has very low miles on it; it's just that the bed is beyond restoration; basically hammered. But it does run like a top, 345 v8. Slight transfer case leak & terrible oil pan gasket leak. I'm a fan of the I-H trucks. If you need a hefty 3/4-ton, this would be a good one! Nice equipment list... What to do w/ the CJ? It has a Borg Warner 4 speed in it; Dana 44 rear, dana 30 front axle & dana 20 transfer case. Stock Jeep 4-speed is the T18, usually a close-ratio version with 4.02:1 first (compound) gear instead of 6.32:1 or 6.40:1. Good unit regardless.... Some PO put a Rancho 2.5" lift under it; other than that it's pretty much stock. Has the original hardtop. 252 6 cylinder engine. 106,000 original miles. Has a roll cage; either aftermarket installed by a PO, or it's Jeep- same color as the body, but the body has been repainted. The tub under the floor mats, rockers & corners are rust out. Everything seems to work, but it has a bad engine main seal leak & some carb issues, which I believe are due to old gas/ ethanol... Dana 60 front & 14 bolt rear would be nice w/ maybe a v8 conversion? lift, crossover steering? Big axles, lots of unsprung weight added...The '74 CJ has a boxed frame only to the rear anchors of the front springs. Make sure you modify the frame to hold up. The '72-'75 frames are known to crack or even break off right behind this boxed front spring anchor point at the frame. Decisions, decisions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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