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Info on Ramsey P.T.O. and Winch Rebuild


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11 replies to this topic

#1 JohnF

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 12:20 PM

Had some down time so I decided to clean up the PTO. I degreased everything then took a wire wheel in a drill and " polished " everything up. Not sure if this came painted black from the factory or bare but I am liking the contrast with the bare aluminum and the black transfer case.

 

Anyway, is there any info around on rebuilding these PTO's as well as the front mounted factory winch ? Where to get parts, seals, gaskets ??

 

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#2 JohnF

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 01:29 PM

I went and disassembled everything. Looks like I need both oil seals and sprocket. I see I can get a weld a sprocket and hub but there are different pitches to the sprockets and different chain number's. Any idea what to get ?










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#3 Moses Ludel

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Posted 05 March 2014 - 09:30 PM

JohnF...Good you took this unit apart before using it again!  Ramsey is still very much in business and may be helpful, try the tech line.  Another source would be Jon Compton at Border Parts, Spring Valley, CA.  Give Jon my best regards!

 

The sprocket may have commonality with industrial and logging industry equipment sprockets.  This could be another source.  If you can find the size and fit, be sure of the quality and torque/load rating for any winch parts...I see the sprocket's index pin looks solid, not a spring roll pin.  Match the solid pin for load capacity...Try MSC Direct (online) or Grainger and McMaster-Carr for these sprocket pieces.

 

Moses



#4 JohnF

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 08:28 AM

Moses

 

Do you know what the bolts on these units are torqued to? I assume not much being it's aluminum. 

 

Thank you

 

JF



#5 Moses Ludel

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Posted 10 March 2014 - 09:48 AM

Boy, JohnF, aluminum threads this old can be scary and often lead to Heli-Coil or Time-Sert repairs.  You're wise to be conservative.  I'm assuming all threads are USS/course and 1/4", 5/16" and 3/8"?

 

If so, here are some basic, maximum torque guidelines that make sense with SAE fine and course aluminum threads (courtesy of Allpar.com) and both Grade 5 and Grade 8 bolts:

Attached File  Grade 5 Aluminum Thread Torque_Page_1.jpg   119.02KB   4 downloads Attached File  Grade 5 Aluminum Thread Torque_Page_2.jpg   140.39KB   1 downloads

 
I agree with the chart findings and note these maximums for Grade 5 bolts into aluminum threads (see .jpg charts above).  For Grade 8 bolts, see the charts:


1/4" threads:  6 ft-lbs

5/16" threads: 12 ft-lbs

3/8" threads:  20 ft-lbs

 

Use blue Loctite 242 or an anaerobic sealant on threads—I never use red 271 Loctite on aluminum threads!  Red can lead to threads coming out with the bolt on the next removal.  If threads feel "soft", do not continue tightening—the aluminum threads will pull out next...The 242 will prevent back-off and also provides torque/strength over time.

 

Try this and let us know how it "feels" for tightness...

 

Trust this helps, JohnF!

 

Moses



#6 JohnF

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 12:39 PM

Decided to take apart the winch next, get it cleaned and painted and check things.

 

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I didn't expect so much wheel bearing grease inside.

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#7 JohnF

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 12:41 PM

Was looking for input on this. It is the shift fork for what I would assume is the break. I was wondering if it was supposed to be bent like this or not ? It looks like it's bent exactly the same on both sides.

 

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#8 Moses Ludel

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Posted 16 March 2014 - 07:30 PM

This would be a most unusual fit between the pins and the collar slot.  It is likely the legs are twisted—uniformly.  If you place this shift fork into the collar's slot, it should be apparent that this is not the correct fit.  The pins' shoulders typically ride parallel to the collar slot edges...Make sense?

 

Please furnish a photo of the collar and its slot arrangement.  I'd like to confirm this parts relationship...

 

To your knowledge, has this assembly ever been apart before?  The grease looks "original" for a 1967 vintage winch.  Can you obtain a service manual (reprint/PDF or whatever) or service details from Ramsey?  They may find your project of interest, especially with the exposure at these forums.

 

Do any members have details like a parts or service manual for this winch?

 

Moses



#9 JohnF

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 11:43 AM

Moses,

 

Do you know what this shaft nut should be torqued at for the PTO ?

 

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What happens when you soak aluminum hubs in Zep purple degreaser. Next time i will read the warnings

 

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#10 Moses Ludel

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 12:24 PM

Give me a shaft diameter and thread pitch, JohnF.  A photo of the nut and locking hardware would help, too.  I can provide a torque setting, looks similar to a Warn/Saturn overdrive shaft...Let's confirm.  This needs to be tight, we'll see how tight. 

 

Wow, ZEP is "chemical" all right!  The fine print...

 

Moses



#11 JohnF

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 12:36 PM

Give me a shaft diameter and thread pitch, JohnF.  A photo of the nut and locking hardware would help, too.  I can provide a torque setting, looks similar to a Warn/Saturn overdrive shaft...Let's confirm.  This needs to be tight, we'll see how tight. 

 

Wow, ZEP is "chemical" all right!  The fine print...

 

Moses

The size is 5/8" 18 I don't have the original nut so I had to get a standard nut. It is locked in with a cotter pin. I believe this sprocket pushes against the pto bearing ? will being so tight hurt the bearing ?



#12 Moses Ludel

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Posted 23 May 2014 - 03:38 PM

JohnF...I gleaned the Saturn Overdrive installation data and steps from Advance Adapters' website.  (These folks are very good friends and supporters of the magazine and these forums!)  In the PDF instructions, you can see the relationship of parts and a reference to the torque settings for the hardware:

 

Attached File  Advance Adapters Saturn Overdrive.pdf   722.41KB   1 downloads

 

Read through the Saturn Overdrive details and look at the illustrations.  Note the similarities to your PTO sprocket location.  If the bearing you describe is a caged ball type with an inner and outer race, and if the sprocket rests against the shoulder of the inner bearing race (with the bearing seated against the output shaft shoulder), then these Saturn steps should help clarify the torque setting for the nut. 

 

Note: The Saturn Overdrive uses a stub shaft, which you do not use; however, if your sprocket attaches like the Saturn stub shaft, you'll have torque figures.  What you don't want is a loose sprocket or a seized bearing!

 

If the sprocket seats against the inner race (only) of the caged bearing, the bearing inner race/collar can tolerate considerable fastener torque.  You would not be affecting the "bearing adjustment" by tightening the nut. 

 

I would use a properly graded castellated nut and torque the nut to spec range.  The cotter pin is a safety back-up.  Torqued properly, the nut will not loosen with a cotter pin in place.  An all steel "top-lock" Grade 8 nut with Loctite for insurance might be an option or a similar self-locking U-joint type flange nut like this if clearance is not an issue:

Metric%20Top%20Lock%20Flange%20Nut%20Con

 

Moses




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