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Another Grand Wagoneer to Late CJ Parts Mate-up!


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#1 Rollbar

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 10:52 AM

Thank Rare CJ8 for the invite and thanks for the books Moses   :)
 
 
I'm Jim and here is my Jeep in question.  '84 CJ8; AMC 360; TF-999; D-300; D30/D44
 
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Ok it have been thinking and I need a lot of help to get things lined up to see if it is feasible to do.  I would like to beef up my CJ8 and go the least expensive route I can of course, but that isn't always the easiest thing to do. 
 
 
I have a '85 Waggy that we pulled the 360 and put it in the '74 CJ5 and the rest of the vehicle is there, 100%.  It has a 727 (I think); 209 T-case (I think) D44 F/R (I think); (3.31GR).   Sorry, not a Waggy guy.
 
1. I will use the Waggy DShafts if I can't use the CJ8's for temporary (rear DS). 
 
2. Is there a spring outboard kit?
The CJ frame is 28" (CL) and the Waggy is 32" (CL). 
 
3. How much is involved if I want to cut down the axle?  (A friend of mine can machine the axle shafts (cut them down/re-spline them) and cut the axle down, just down time/check his schedule.
 
4. Will the steering shaft from the CJ work with the Waggy front/length/stock Waggy width or will the steering column from the Waggy have to be used and if so, will it work in the CJ?
 
5. Will the DSide drop axle work w/the tranny 727/t-case without clearence issues inside the CJ frame (i.e) ?
 
6. The rear axle should work with new perches welded?
 
7. Will the Waggy's brake booster/MC work in the CJ8?
 
8. Is it really worth it, seeing the Waggy axle has a 3.31 gear ratio?
 
9. I do have a set of 3.73 gears in the garage but they are for the D30/D44 CJ axles.
 
10. ????
 
Pics below are of the Waggy's front end.
 
Thanks for the help,
Jim
 
 
 
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'48 Willys; '65 Navy CJ5; '74 CJ5; '80 CJ7; '84 CJ8; '86 CJ7


#2 Moses Ludel

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 01:55 PM

Hi, Jim, and welcome to the forum discussion!  We have another owner of a later CJ (Hobbs) pursuing a Wagoneer front axle swap, so the conversation is well underway...See the other comments on the CJ-7 at: http://forums.4wdmec...1985-jeep-cj-7/.  We're working our way to a "blueprint" for using a D44 Wagoneer front axle in a late CJ, Hobbs is taking measurements and doing some parts assessment...Note the vintage axle he's using.

 

The Grand Wagoneer drivelines will likely need fit/sizing, as the CJ-8 and the Grand are different wheelbases.  You'll need to take measurements here.  As for the A727 and, likely, a 229 transfer case (please confirm whether a 229 on the New Process tag at the rear of the transfer case), they should fit within the rails of a late CJ without much fanfare.  Skid plate and other changes would be needed. 

 

These CJ frames accommodate the 999, as you know, and they even took on the Turbo 400 from '76-'79 with the B-W Quadratrac transfer case (big enough in both cases!).  The 727 is not that much larger in outside dimensions than the 999 and certainly no bigger than a Turbo 400 G.M. unit.  The drop on the transfer case, if you're using full Grand axle widths, should be feasible, too.  Levers and such will need attention, though, and if a 229, the lever is under the driver's seat of the Grand, with vacuum controls remote mounted.  Look this over, since you have the whole vehicle.

 

Steering is forward of the axle, so if you position the axle properly and configure the linkage from the pitman to the steering knuckle, you could make this work.  Doubt whether the stock Grand Wagoneer linkage will fit, as you note, Jim, the CL of the frames differ, and the steering gearboxes locate differently.  Some photos would be helpful here, we can discuss what you're facing.

 

Hobbs and lastCJ7 may want to add notes on the axle narrowing, typically cutting one side and having the axle shaft made.  If your friend can do this machining and welding, all the merrier, though you need to be sure that the axle shaft splines get case hardened after the machining, which should be done with the shaft "normalized" before the spline cutting process.  Normalizing makes the machining easier and saves tooling.  The case hardening restores the shaft to OEM integrity and will prevent the splines from self-destructing—quickly.

 

The spring perches and outboard spring mounts are all feasible, though this does require quality fabrication and welding.  I'd prefer seeing spring perch widths that match the Grand's mounts.  (You can rotate pinion shafts to a reasonable degree with steel caster wedges.) 

 

I like your use of the Grand's master cylinder, as it has the volume displacement intended for the Grand's brake calipers and drum wheel cylinders.  You will likely use the Grand booster, make sure that the pedal linkage fits up properly, with the factory recommended amount of clearance between the linkage pieces.  You want to be sure that the master cylinder's pistons retract fully with the pedal released!

 

3.73 gears would be okay if you had a D44 front axle for 3.73 parts.  Used gears are dicey in any event.  You have a three-speed automatic, so the tall 3.31 gears might be okay if you do not run tires over 33" diameter.  Beyond that, I'd be looking for 3.73 or 4.10 gears—new.  Any lower (numerically higher) gearing, and the engine will wind itself out on the highway without an overdrive.

 

#10, the mystery question:  Why are you considering the Grand Wagoneer transfer case when your CJ-8 has the helically cut gear, bulletproof Dana 300 now?  I can see the 727 Torqueflite and 360 V-8 idea.  Perhaps a call to Advance Adapters could come up with a simpler 727 to Dana 300 mate-up solution:  1-800-350-2223.  I do understand the D44 front axle idea with a 360 V-8.  Perhaps the correct year axle, narrowed and with correct drop for a CJ transfer case, would suffice?  Unless you plan 37" diameter tires, the stock rear axle and a narrowed, correct drop 44 for the front would be more than ample for a two-barrel carbureted 360 V-8...

 

My view, here for more discussion.  I'd like to hear what others have to say about this approach.  Thanks for joining us, Jim!

 

Moses



#3 Rollbar

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 02:25 PM

Thank you-yes a lot to consider and I will subscribe to the post in question.

 

I have a edelbrock intake and a 4bbl carb w/mechanical secondaries for now.

 

I would really like to keep the D300, maybe after looking at all this it might be easier to install a 4" lift and use the 727 with the D300 bolted up behind it.

 

The 727 & TF999 should be the same length so my custom rear driveshaft should still work along w/my front.

 

Thanks again and your books are a big help-I even have one for the kids.

 

Jim


'48 Willys; '65 Navy CJ5; '74 CJ5; '80 CJ7; '84 CJ8; '86 CJ7


#4 Moses Ludel

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 02:38 PM

Thanks for your enthusiasm around my books, Jim...I'm very pleased that we have these "forums" to share our common interests!  Looking forward to the dialogue...

 

Moses


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