Ok, we had an issue with my step dad's 1994 ford f-150 4x4. It is an extended cab, with a 302 v-8, that a couple weeks ago revved up on its own, which has since been fixed. It was due to a sticking throttle cable, but, when it revved up, the transmission jumped into reverse on its own. Since then, it has happened a couple of times, even with the sticking throttle issue resolved. My question is, has anyone ever heard of this happening? If so, how common is it, and what are possible fixes for this issue?
Owner: MegatronAdded: 27 September 2013 - 08:56 AM
Owner: MegatronAdded: 25 September 2013 - 07:37 AM
Owner: Moses LudelAdded: 15 September 2013 - 01:16 PM
Owner: biggman100Added: 22 September 2013 - 05:22 PM
Owner: Moses LudelAdded: 15 September 2013 - 08:42 AM
Ford E4OD Automatic Transmission Shifting IssueFord truck Ford F-truck F150 Ford Ford small-block Ford F-series how-to Ford troubleshooting F-Series Ford Ford truck forum F-Series forum
Posted 06 August 2013 - 06:46 PM
Hi, biggman100! A Ford E4OD shift problem like this can be solenoids, wiring or sensor issues. It is unlikely a mechanical issue other than bound or damaged shift linkage. There is a PCM (powertrain control module) that can throw codes. Use your Snap-On MT2500 to read codes if possible. I know of possibilities with the shift solenoids, perhaps a loose connection inside the transmission pan if you cannot find anything obvious in external wiring or visible plug/wire junctions.
Let me know the codes thrown. If you need interpretation or analysis of problems and components related to a code(s), I have a wealth of Ford service data from this period. My Ford F-Series Pickup Owner's Bible published in 1994 (Bentley Publishers). Though the book is a companion to factory workshop manuals and not a "shop manual" in itself, I have the research data that includes OEM shop manuals for the F-series truck years from 1948 through your F-150 problem child.
Pleased to help, the first step is any codes thrown, I checked the flow charts for your symptoms, there are peripheral problems and not anything "specific" to what you describe. Give me some fodder, and I will provide an interpretation.
Posted 06 August 2013 - 07:15 PM
I went to move my step dad's ford to the side of the garage, where it usually sits. The shifter was in park, and the engine started up fine, but before i could do anything, i watched as the shifter jumped into reverse, and the truck tried to jump backwards. Luckily i had my foot on the brake, and it didn't go anywhere.
I thought maybe the throttle sticking was why it kept jumping into reverse, but i have since fixed the sticking throttle, and twice now it has done the same thing to me. I have checked the linkage, and found nothing out of place there, and no bad bushings, so i am at a loss.
As for getting the codes, my brother removed the battery, so i can't retrieve any codes. A few months ago there was an issue where the starter solenoid would just engage on its own and start the truck.
Posted 07 August 2013 - 11:49 PM
biggman100...This sounds like a shift linkage problem, either external or inside the transmission case. From what you describe, "The shifter was in park, and the engine started up fine, but before i could do anything, i watched as the shifter jumped into reverse, and the truck tried to jump backwards."
The manual shift valve, detent lever and the spring-loaded detent are not fully engaging Park when the column shifter reaches "Park" position. If the column shift linkage is adjusted properly and the engine cranks over in Park or Neutral only, then the problem is either the linkage on the outside of the transmission case or inside. This can be due to loose, misadjusted, damaged or broken shift linkage, or a loose or damaged detent lever, defective spring-loaded detent or other issues with the linkage.
The linkage has the transmission partially in Park, and the manual valve in the valve body is headed for Reverse. Any vibration or even the shake of the engine starting is enough to cause the linkage to move away from Park and into Reverse.
Chock the wheels, set the parking brakes, drop the transmission pan and drain the ATF. Have someone move the shifter from Park down through Reverse to Neutral, then up again. Note the movement of the internal linkage, check for loose retainer nuts or roll pins. Make sure the parking pawl engages in Park position, test by rocking the truck. The pawl should lock the transmission output shaft from rotating.
Your problem is a transmission not fully engaging Park. Simultaneously, the manual valve in the valve body is not aligning properly. If the manual valve is not aligned properly, the transmission's fluid circuits will route fluid incorrectly...At the transmission end, you should feel a distinct click and spring-loaded tension when the shift linkage engages each gear position within the transmission. The internal transmission linkage, manual shift valve and the column shift linkage must act in sync, otherwise what appears to be Park is actually somewhere between Park and Reverse.
The manual valve at the valve body must align properly with each gear selection at the column linkage. In Park, the pawl must engage. Let me know what you find...You want to isolate a very specific problem. This is a safety issue that sounds mechanical, not electronic.
Posted 08 August 2013 - 08:24 PM
I assumed it was something mechanical, but after moving his truck today, i think replacing the transmission would be the better option, due to other things i noticed. When i started it, no matter how many times i shut it off and restarted it, it sounded like a rod knocking, but after a couple minutes it would go away, so i started really listening, while having my brother start it with his foot on the brake 4 or 5 times, and found the noise is coming from the torque converter.
The noise would completely go away after a couple minutes, and wouldn't come back, except in reverse, so im thinking there is an issue with the torque converter at the very least. Had the linkage checked today at a transmission shop to make sure it wasn't out of adjustment, and the guy at the shop says the knock was more than likely torque converter, im thinking replacing it will be the best option. He does have a spare transmission that he had a shop rebuild for his 1995 f-150, when that transmission was acting up, but it never got put in the truck.
Posted 09 August 2013 - 03:19 PM
Sounds like the flex plate might be cracked or damaged. When you change transmissions, replace the converter and closely inspect the flex plate for cracks and fatigue. The flex plate is a relatively inexpensive item when you've already stepped up for the cost of a transmission rebuild and a fresh torque converter.
If you replace all of this, and the linkage, motor mounts and transmission mounts appear okay, this should work out.
Posted 09 August 2013 - 04:41 PM
The rebuilt transmission out of the 1995 already has a new torque converter, so im going to just use that one. As for the flex plate, i didn't think of that, but in light of the fact that today i got under the truck and checked a few things, and found the torque converter to flex plate bolts were extremely loose, and re-tightening them, with lock tite, and only 2 of the 4 actually seemed to get tight, and realizing that the torque converter has been banging against the flex plate for who knows how long, that would make sense.
My plan, once a couple other issues are dealt with on other vehicles, is to pull the transmission out of the ford, replace the trans mount, and more than likely the flex plate, as well as all the shift linkage bushings, and transmission itself, as well as the motor mounts, because i have suspected an issue with at least one of them for awhile now, and then see if anything else needs to be done. The problem with this truck is that it is an older one, and my step dad does not want to spend money on it, but at the same time, he expects it to be reliable and safe.
Posted 10 August 2013 - 10:15 AM
Sounds familiar...Of course, it's cheaper to not buy a new vehicle; however, you need to constantly perform preventive maintenance and inspection if you want the vehicle to perform as reliably as a new one...Unless you're in a position to do professional-grade work on your vehicle, there's the added cost and dilemma of subletting the work. When considering a used vehicle, shop hourly rates, even for independent shops, now hover around $75-$100 per hour flat rate. Considering just the cost of a DRBIII scan tool or equivalent, new or used, it's understandable why.
So, this is an issue, because safety and reliability are essential, especially for our 4x4s used in remote backcountry, and every part of any vehicle has a lifespan or duty cycle. Having a fleet truck maintenance and restoration background, I have been fortunate, and realistic enough, to stay on top of our vehicles. We've never been stranded nor had a total vehicle "breakdown" or tow in our family vehicles, and this is actually most unusual. (Minor trailside fixes don't count, we kept going without a glitch.)
The closest event was a limp-in drive to the dealership under warranty when the Dodge Ram had 800 miles on it, and the Cummins ECU decided to quit, not just on our truck but on a whole slough of '04 models. (Recently, Chrysler extended the warranty on the ECUs for these vehicles.) A change out of the PCM under warranty, a flash of the new Cummins Recon computer, and the truck has run flawlessly for the following 120K plus miles.
This is the "price" of used vehicle ownership. When you have a family and children, safety and reliability are of the utmost importance. Maybe we should start these two new topics: "Used Versus New Vehicles" and "Preventive Care"?
Posted 10 August 2013 - 02:37 PM
Both of those topics would probably end up being hot debates. There are people who have valid points on both sides of the coin, and there never seems to be a consensus on either topic.
Some swear by new vehicles, and some swear by used vehicles. Preventive care is one of those issues where there are so many factors, it's sometimes hard to say who is right, depending on what part of preventive care you are bringing up.
Posted 13 November 2013 - 07:22 PM
I'm having a shifting problem with my 1990 f=150. I think the tranny shop said it's an E4OD. I had some seals and filter replaced a few months ago. Drove several thou miles with no trouble. Lately it started not shifting from 2nd to 3rd when it was cold. It seemed like it was in neutral-revved high without going anywhere- until it finally did shift. It's gotten worse the last couple of days and now it doesnt want to up shift. Can barely get past 35mph. Unfortunately Im 200 miles from home. Any suggestions?
Posted 13 November 2013 - 08:47 PM
Hello, Fred, welcome to the forums. Sorry to hear you're stranded away from home. Let's see if we can target that problem and get you home...
From what you describe, at worst this could be a more serious direct clutch or center support assembly issue, which would require a teardown/rebuild. Before jumping to that conclusion or testing hydraulic and mechanical components, I would check the PCM for any stored codes.
Loose or damaged electrical connectors, defective SS1 or SS2 shift solenoids, loose or damaged vehicle wiring, the PCM module itself or the vehicle speed sensor (not likely the VSS, as the problem is only on 2nd/3rd shift) can each create shift issues. There is a specific set of diagnostic codes related to the E4OD transmission malfunctions. See if a code is stored already and run the diagnostic sequence for the PCM and the transmission specifically.
I can provide a list of mechanical/hydraulic trouble spots for the E4OD if you cannot find a simpler electrical or electronic issue. The SS1 or SS2 solenoids or wiring circuits could be an issue; electrical problems can be fixed without a teardown. If no electrical, PCM, wiring, VSS or solenoid issues exist, and if you do need to tear into the E4OD, the likely cause of this 2nd-3rd shift issue is the valve body, 2-3 shift valve, an SS1 or SS2 solenoid or circuit malfunction, a damaged center support assembly, overall wear or a faulty direct clutch assembly. In any case beyond the valve body and solenoids, major work would be involved.
Always attempt the simpler, in-chassis diagnostics and fixes first...Do not drive with the transmission "slipping", as severe damage will occur rapidly. Let us know what you find.
I'm here for any additional help. Looking forward to your participation at the forums...
Posted 14 November 2013 - 09:40 AM
Thanks. That's good advice. The VSS is interesting to me. I found that if I was able to get up to around 50mph (down hill) it would upshift to high gear (OD?) and I could cruise at 60 to 70 no problem-so it seemed that vehicle speed was somehow related to shift problem. I drove from SF bay to North Tahoe. Going up hill if I had to downshift manually when I went back to OD the upshifts happened as long as speed was sufficient. The really odd thing that happened when I got off the freeway was that it didn't want to come out of gear when I approached a stop. Luggin motor as if it was a manual tranny in high gear. I popped in neutral to keep it running. Then it was back to the same trouble when I got going again-no up ( or very delayed)shift in mid gear unless I could get up to speed.
I was hoping to drive it back home to go to my tranny shop that did the seals and filter. That sounds ill advised. I could tow home or find a local shop to check it out. Do you know anyone in North Tahoe/Truckee area? I could take a look underneath if I knew what to look for.
Thanks again, Fred
Posted 14 November 2013 - 10:32 AM
Fred, sounds like a VSS possibility...Check the wiring and connections to the vehicle speed sensor. Check wiring in general. The coming to a stop issue could be the lockup converter staying locked, and this might also be a VSS problem. Before replacing parts, look for the simpler fix around the VSS: wiring and connections. If the VSS tests defective, replace it.
As for shops at the Tahoe Area, I suggest Levrett Transmission at Reno on E. 4th Street. They are a multi-generation family business, and the E4OD is a mainstay for this rebuilding and troubleshooting shop. Levrett Transmission enjoys a good reputation locally:
832 E 4th St
Reno, NV 89512
A chat with the Levretts by phone might cast some light, they work on the E4OD day in and out, especially Ford F-trucks.
Keep us posted, Fred...
Posted 11 July 2014 - 08:29 PM
Alright so i started to have a problem with my 95 F150 351w (has 109k miles on it) with the E4OD transmission yesterday. It took more rpms to get it into drive and when at a stop it was not wanting to move under its own power. Today i had put some shutter fluid in it and it seemed better but not completely unsolved, while i was goin up a steep hill i had completely lost drive but had only reverse and park left, what would cause me to completely lose drive?
Posted 29 July 2014 - 07:35 AM
95Mudder...Have you changed the filter and fluid recently, not just a top-off? A clogged or loose filter can cause this problem, and if left unresolved, you will burn up clutches. The Levritt Transmission idea is making even more sense, getting a fluid and filter change with an inspection at the same time.
There are distinct causes for loss of drive. However, the fact that it does this on a grade raises suspicions about fluid level and the ability to pick up fluid. Can you drive safely into Reno and have Levritt drop the transmission pan? The symptoms are not good...
Posted 01 September 2014 - 08:25 AM
Keithfromphilly...The 624 code can indicate either:
1) A "short circuit that can cause minimum EPC pressure (minimum capacity). Limits engine torque (partial fuel shut-off, heavy misfire). Flashing TCIL." or
2) "An open circuit that causes maximum EPC, harsh engagements and shifts. May flash TCIL."
Sounds like you have the open circuit, as this does fit your transmission symptoms. You likely have either an EPC circuit "open", a shorted circuit or an output driver issue. Check the wiring, connector plugs and the output driver. The problem will be somewhere in that circuit or the output driver. Don't spend additional money on solenoids at this stage, they're probably not the trouble.
Posted 01 September 2014 - 05:50 PM
Great when this works out well. This is an instance where Ford's OBD troubleshooting was spot on! The 624 code coupled with your shifting symptoms gave us a positive and useful lead...
Good job, Keith. Looking forward to your participation at the forums!
Posted 03 September 2014 - 10:31 AM
Funny you say that Keith...I've been a professional light truck wrench since the late 1960s. At that time, we serviced and rebuilt very conventional trucks, and in my first professional role, I was a light and medium duty truck fleet mechanic. (Yes, journey-level professionals were called "mechanics" then, not "technicians", and I'm okay with either moniker.) The fleet was 1949-64 vehicles, all breaker point ignitions, drum brakes, grease-able chassis points or at least steering linkage and drivelines, manual linkage transmissions, vacuum modulators on the automatic transmissions, very fundamental to work on. Trucks were considered utility vehicles and had to be serviceable with accessible components.
I've witnessed and been hands-on with the complete evolution of vehicles. Frankly, today's "light trucks" are no longer fleet engineered for ease of service. In fact, this is the era of electronics and passenger car accessories, including your '94 Ford with MPI/EFI and a transmission controlled by electronics. You're right, it's a matter of "degree". Electronics did not end ease of troubleshooting. The code you pulled from the '94 is actually very helpful. OBD (onboard diagnostics) can be quite useful, though certainly not always able to pinpoint a problem or offer a solution.
What I consider ease of service is when you can still access components in the repair and rebuilding process. When the heater core of a 2012-up Jeep JK Wrangler takes a dealership professional 8 hours to replace, at the expense of tearing half the under dash apart, I have trouble calling this traditional Jeep utility model a readily serviceable vehicle.
Like other professional techs and fleet operators, I'll always expect my trucks to be serviceable. Bad enough that cars have such a poor track record for service/parts access. Visualizing my head downward under the dash with feet over the seat tops while servicing the heater does not appeal to me. I'm sure that dealership techs doing warranty work (been there, done that, GMC truck line and warranty mechanic in the early S/T-truck era) would fully agree.
Posted 08 October 2014 - 06:35 PM
Posted 08 October 2014 - 07:16 PM
rfields223...Would like to know what the Engine Check code reads. Auto Zone and others will often read a code for free on OBD. Or you can purchase a simple and inexpensive code reader (only) that does not do diagnostics. What we need is a code, I'll help troubleshoot from there.
Meanwhile, scroll up and read Keithfromphilly's first question and the exchange we shared. This is the kind of trouble we're seeking, something that might connect the Engine Check (actually powertrain, including the transmission) to your symptom. It would be advantageous to find a simpler problem than something deeper within the transmission.
Pleased to follow up with suggestions once we get this Check Engine clue.
Posted 13 October 2014 - 11:33 AM
Powertrain Control System issues with the E4OD can cause your symptoms. At this point, let's avoid the hydraulic system or friction clutch issues, which generally require a transmission rebuild.
For now, I would focus on the VSS. This is a crucial signal in the PCS, and you're getting a clear message of a fault. Before racing to replace the VSS, look for wiring and connector troubles, the easier remedies. If the VSS unit tests defective, I would replace it, regardless of whether there are additional troubles with the transmission.
The 12 and 13 codes should also be explored and resolved, though they may have no direct bearing on the 2nd gear skip-and-slip. Also check the shift linkage and the shift module at the transmission for clear engagement in each shifter position. Chock the wheels, set the parking brake, and do not run the engine during this check! You're simply sensing the "feel" of each shift detent position at the transmission's manual lever. It might help to have an assistant move the shift lever. Make sure your helper does not crank the engine over while releasing the shift lever from Park!
These are the least costly repairs and troubleshooting steps for openers. We can go much deeper. If you need details on troubleshooting the VSS, just ask.
Posted 14 October 2014 - 12:12 PM
Thank you Moses, I did indeed check the vss, and it came up as faulty. I replaced, and it did indeed help my initial over revving problem. However, I tore into the overdrive button on the gear shift selector and found it had no continuity, I removed it and therefore took the truck out of overdrive. Shifts fine from second into third and so on. But now, there's an extreme shudder somewhere in low speeds ( 40-55). Also I'm throwing new codes, 25, 32, and 76.
Thanks for your help earlier, your previous email led me to the vss and overdrive button! I will check all connections leading to the trans when the weather clears.
Posted 17 October 2014 - 08:07 AM
Posted 18 October 2014 - 08:15 AM
Okay...So what are the symptoms? When you have a "global" and apparently random problem like this one, your idea of a wiring short, too much resistance in a circuit or a harness connector issue becomes likely. Let's start the troubleshooting approach by reconciling the codes being thrown:
32—Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve Position Pressure Feedback Voltage Lower Than Expected
73—Insufficient Throttle Position Change Dynamic Test
27—Insufficient Vehicle Speed Sensor Input
13—Direct Current Motor Did Not Move
Repeat of 27—Insufficient Vehicle Speed Sensor Input
If we look at this in an overlay, some of the codes point to specific troubles, others are inconsistent. For example, the #13 code about the direct current motor is specific and can be verified by seeing whether the Direct Current Motor does work or not. Throttle position change errors would have a counterpart in poor drivability or idle roughness. Despite the wonders of "codes", we need to assess the actual performance troubles.
Did the shift-skip come back, or is the transmission actually shifting okay still? How does the engine run, cold start, idle and generally perform? Note that you're getting an array of trouble codes and need to separate whether parts are actually defective or the system is simply communicating poorly.
Communication is dependent upon circuit integrity. This means that connections and wiring integrity must be intact. Understanding, logically, that "everything" doesn't usually fail at the same time, your gut thought about wiring circuit opens or maybe too much resistance is probably true. In terms of defective wires, the VSS did test defective, and it also may have shorted or overloaded wiring when it went down for the count. That's a possibility, but let's not borrow that trouble just yet.
I did a forum entry about lamp load testing, and that may be valuable to your troubleshooting approach. See this entry and the vlog I did on DC circuit testing. Also enter "lamp load" in the Search box at these forums for more details. (Make sure the Search box is set for "Forums" search, not "This topic".)
Before jumping to the conclusion that a host of wiring troubles exist, let's consider the ground circuits and the harness plug connections. If wiring looks intact and not fried or exposed, try disconnecting the connector plugs related to the powertrain and VSS very carefully to avoid breaking two-decade old plastic connectors! Clean up the connections with a specified electrical contact cleaner, allow to dry completely then apply dielectric grease to the connector faces before reconnecting the plug halves. (This will provide the necessary moisture barrier without preventing conductivity. See my comments about the use of dielectric grease.)
So let's isolate the connectors involved with the VSS and other fault codes for openers. Check ground points and clean as needed throughout the truck chassis, at the battery and in the engine bay ground circuits. Unplug, clean and re-plug the EEC processor connectors—carefully. If this does not remedy the issue, we can isolate wiring areas and begin checking for circuit integrity or lamp load test.
As you can tell, I'm not a big fan of "parts replacing" as a troubleshooting tool. Let's first find the cause of the code(s), then replace defective parts if necessary.
Posted 22 March 2015 - 08:49 PM
truck starts went in gear just fine when came back from new mexico when got back to wyoming and almost to my house and parked when getting ready to move it again hard to get in gear but went in to gear but would not move in drive or reverse turn off truck and tried it again moved a foot then would not move reverse or drive tried again and the third time didnt move not even drive or reverseb need help trying to figure this out
Posted 22 March 2015 - 09:59 PM
Presumably E4OD? What year? Did you do the obvious, check fluid level, signs of burnt fluid on the dipstick? Is the shift linkage attached and not binding? Is the shift module intact and not binding at the side of the transmission case? Loose wires to the transmission? Any "codes" indicated?
I can provide the troubleshooting steps if the transmission passes these immediate checks...
Posted 23 March 2015 - 08:01 AM
If the shift linkage is attached and seems "normal" by the shift lever feel, the "no first or reverse engagement" on an E4OD is typically a mechanical issue and not electrical. Here are the Ford troubleshooting recommendations for this condition. Read through, there are a few "simpler" items but many require interior transmission work or even an overhaul:
E4OD Transmission Mechanical 1st-Reverse Trouble.pdf 620.84KB 40 downloads
This is a PDF, so zoom-in for easier reading. See if any items apply. Consider the less difficult repairs first. Note that the OD engagement can be an issue, and many have trouble with the E4OD overdrive switch and circuit, which would fall into the category of a "simpler" fix...Glad to discuss this further after you consider this information.
Since you were doing just fine until you parked, I'm not as concerned about the deep troubles. Something more basic could be involved, like the OD engagement circuit.
Posted 23 March 2015 - 09:12 AM
Try fiddling with the OD switch control...See if that has any impact. Again, try all of the "easy" possibilities before plunging into the heart of the transmission.
How many miles does this E4OD unit have? Its history as you know it? Last fluid and filter change? A clogged transmission filter can cause these symptoms.
Does it feel like the unit "engages" in either 1st or reverse? I understood that the vehicle won't move...
Posted 24 March 2015 - 09:04 PM
Would not hurt to drop the pan for an inspection. Metal, clutch debris and signs of scorched fluid would suggest hard parts and clutch damage. If relatively metal-free and "clean", simply in need of a filter and fluid change, you could get off easier.
The "whirring" can be oil starvation or an actual metallic noise, starvation being a possible filter issue if caught early. Metal grating noises would be much deeper problems.
Dropping the pan should reveal a lot. That's the least expensive first step and the simplest place to start...
Posted 26 March 2015 - 05:33 AM
devil...Filter and fluid change...Inspect the pan for debris. If you post some photos of the filter and pan (fluid poured off but debris still in place), I can make an assessment. There's a story in that debris, and I can read it...Before cleaning the pan, please take a few photos and share.
Posted 03 April 2015 - 01:33 PM
I have a 1995 F250 XLT w/7.3 Turbo Diesel. From what I'm finding on the Internet it appears this should be an E40D transmission. I'll list some symptoms and then some background. Truck will go into Reverse and seemingly Neutral as it will move backwards in reverse and fail to move in Neutral. However, I cannot get it to go forward at all now, not D, 2, or 1. Some background: Some months ago I was driving it when I heard a pop and it seemed like I lost gears as it began coasting. I pulled it over, went through the gear shift a few times and it then took off when I revved it up a little. It then seemed to drive fine, however, I found when I got to my destination that the Reverse wouldn't work at that time. It seemed to drive forward OK. I drove it a couple more times on short trips in town before parking it for several months as I didn't have an opportunity to do much with it. Now the weather is nicer so I decided I'd see what I could do with it while I also had a couple days off work. I was able to get it to go forward, but seemingly reluctantly, but it did allow me to drive a circle in the yard a couple times. Reverse wasn't working initially, then I parked it again and the next time I tried it wouldn't go forward, but would go in reverse.
My dad suggested that I change the trans fluid and filter just as a first step. I know that it has been a long time since it was changed because I never had since I'd had the truck and I put limited mileage on it over the course of each year and never knew what was needed for that. The vehicle has just under 300k, most of that mileage occurred before I bought it used, but it has been a good truck really prior to this issue. I went ahead and changed the fluid and filter. I emptied pan (fluid was dark instead of red looking more like used motor oil). Magnet had quite a bit of buildup on it in my mind, but when watching videos online that seemed somewhat normal for an older truck with significant mileage. I used the method of unhooking the return line from the cooler to the transmission to help empty the rest of the old fluid. So I added 7 qts of fluid after the filter change and cleanup of the pan, including magnet, then I ran it while catching used fluid through a hose attached to that return line. After collecting a few quarts I then added 6 more quarts and did this again. I then added another 5 quarts and ran it one more time until it appeared I was getting new fluid instead of old and I estimated I had pulled out 16+ quarts of the old fluid between what I originally drained and what I had just flushed out. I don't know the exact quantity as I accidentally spilled some and had quite a bit drip under the truck. But I was relatively confident that I had removed 17-19 quarts overall. I then added 2 more quarts as the dipstick was showing low (one quart, ran for a while then added another one). So all in all I used 20 quarts of new fluid, but definitely pumped some of it out along with the old and the dipstick looked good at this point. BTW I did have my son move the shifter through the gears each time as I had added new fluid and was flushing out the old to ensure I pushed some new fluid through the various routes.
Despite this new filter and fluid the truck will only run in reverse (neutral does seem to work). I cannot feel it ever engage when we choose D, 2, or 1 but it is obvious that reverse engages when selected and neutral disengages when selected. Any suggestions on what I can try or should look for? I am not that mechanically inclined, but cannot afford to take it somewhere to be worked on so I am going to have to try to see if there is anything I can do to get it operational.
Thanks for any feedback you can give.
Posted 04 April 2015 - 07:36 AM
clameramseyc...You did go to great lengths to thoroughly flush the transmission, which will be a useful insight for others. It was obviously overdue from your description of the fluid color and texture...
So, no forward gears, reverse intact. Here is a quick comparison/overview of the troubleshooting flow charts for each. I furnished info in an earlier post that is also relevant. With a comparison like this, you sift out the distinct differences between no reverse and no forward operation symptoms. One item that draws my attention is the pump filter, though these generally do not clog unless the main oil filter is so bad that contaminants get into the interior fluid routes:
E4OD Forward and Reverse Failure.pdf 1.26MB 23 downloads
Without being the bearer of bad tidings, if the internal linkage, shift solenoid and other in-chassis repairs do not remedy this problem, the transmission does need a bench rebuild. Bands, servos and clutches simply have a lifespan. Simpler fixes are always worth trying, though the 7.3L diesel and 300K miles does seem like a "normal" service life for a rebuild.
Pleased to walk through any troubleshooting short of that rebuild, I am concerned about your budget. On that note, ATSM makes decent, easier to follow service manuals for rebuilding popular units like the E4OD, perhaps you could rebuild your unit for a reasonable cost on your own. We can talk about needed tools, what typically fails, what to observe when you get the unit apart, and price shopping tips before you plunge into rebuilding the transmission.
Posted 04 April 2015 - 06:49 PM
"devil" started this topic at the Ford E4OD transmission thread. I moved the question to its own topic for replies on the subject:
"My 1988 Ford F150 302 V-8 engine cranks then bogs. Won't start. Battery goes dead quickly. Changed coil, ignition module, distributor cap, should be on top dead center. Had starter checked is good. Getting gas can smell it. What else could i check? What could be wrong?"—devil
Go to http://forums.4wdmec...and-wont-start/ for further discussion and replies on this topic...
Posted 12 April 2015 - 08:34 PM
1992 F150 5.8l 4x4 and an E4od. I just rebuilt the engine, added Mass Air Flow and deleted the EGR. At the same time I had the E4od rebuilt and hD brand new for solinoids installed. So I installed the drivetrain and now I am having shifting issues. I am able to put it in drive and it will sometimes shift to 2nd but then at 55 it will not shift to 3rd then is hard to downshit. I have put it up on stands and it does it time and time again. I have installed a new VSS in the rear ended and the speedo reads perfectly. I pulled the codes and I am getting 334 and 336 but nothing for the Trans. I have disconnect the negative battery post for the night and plan on getting back into it tomorrow after work. Any help on this is much appreciated. Where should I start to weed possibilities out before I pull the pan?
Posted 14 April 2015 - 01:27 PM
Posted 20 April 2015 - 08:38 PM
Posted 21 April 2015 - 09:38 AM
I did some research. Many find relief from a PSOM (speedo unit and module) changeout or even an engine tune-up. If the ABS module and VSS systems check okay, the ECU/PCM comes up often as a trouble source. Some find that simply unplugging connectors and reconnecting the harness plugs to the modules can help. I know this is true from the Jeep systems, which have notoriously poor connections in many cases. Black oxide coating on connector slots and pins is a clear sign of resistance problems. Clean with spray electrical cleaner and fine Scotchbrite, never by scraping. Do not scrape pins or slots with a small screwdriver blade or sharp edge...
I'm not an advocate of "parts replacing", and I always want a clear solution. New modules are too expensive for "testing" purposes. I found that Module Masters at Idaho can do a quality rebuild of an otherwise spendy module, and there are other module rebuilding companies that come up in searches. Module Masters did a GM/Kelsey Hayes ABS module for my son's S/T10 truck for $130. GM wanted $800 for the module. The rebuild included upgrades around known weaknesses in these modules.
If the engine is in good tune, I'd at least try fiddling with the PSOM connector, which could point to a connection or speedo/module problem. Don't rule out the ABS system, as that interfaces with the shift and PCM/ECU functions. Since the truck ran okay then suddenly started this disturbing cycle of troubles, I'm not quick to tear the whole truck apart. Concentrate on speed sensing devices and systems that feed vehicle speed information to the transmission shift processes. I would test devices before arbitrarily replacing them. Parts replacement cost is too great for experimenting.
Address one device, harness or function at a time to pinpoint the issue. The symptoms you describe are seldom "multiple defect" troubles. If you send off modules for rebuilding, ask that the shop test the device first to determine whether the module is actually the trouble source.
Posted 21 April 2015 - 08:58 PM
So tonight I found out that my 1992 did not come with 4wabs. The VSS is wired straight to the PSOM. I attempted to wire the VSS directly to the computer but it would kill the engine once the tires were moving. So I put it back together as factory and now I am thinking I will try my buddies PSOM. Any other ideas?
Posted 23 April 2015 - 09:24 AM
Does the truck have rear ABS only? Check out wiring to the rear ABS system. Does the ABS pick up a signal from the ring gear tone ring and a sensor probe? Check plug connections for corrosion or poor contact. Still thinking of the speed sensing system.
Posted 23 April 2015 - 03:56 PM
Last night I swapped out the PSOM and MLPS from a good running vehicle and i got the same issue. No codes shifting poorly, not going past third. Then I gapped the VSS from .045" to .02" from the Tone ring and began getting a different reaction from the transmission. It was shifting through 3rd and would jump into OD then back out then back in. I believe the VSS is the culprit (even though it is brand new) so tonight i will swap it out to see if it is truly the issue. Thanks for your help y'all.
Posted 24 April 2015 - 09:42 AM
Check the tone ring sensor pickup and its lead with an ohmmeter for opens or out-of-whack resistance. This is why I asked about rear ABS and a pickup. You could be right about the VSS or possibly the ABS module. Try not to spend excess money on parts replacing. Logic points to under-chassis stuff that gets exposed to vibration, the elements, corrosion and shock loads. Connections, wire opens and excess resistance can raise havoc. Often parts replacement can "cure" the issue by simply chafing corrosion off the connector contacts during installation. The new part gets the credit.
Posted 27 April 2015 - 10:53 AM
So this weekend I got some solid time to investigate. I double checked all the connections, checked the gap on the tone ring, and went for a test drive. In drive, it goes through all of the gears and into overdrive, shifts down to 2nd when I manually pull it down, but it will not go into first gear when i pull it into first at a stop. Now time to look into that. Thanks for your help Moses!
Posted 27 April 2015 - 01:02 PM
Help! A friend changed her trans fluid and filter on her 1995 F150 4x4 with E4OD that was acting fine,just regular maint. She didn't know she had a torque converter drain plug, so just filter and fluid. Truck started shifting hard into reverse and drive immediately after. When she realized she had a drainable TC, all fluids were replaced. then truck had to be revved to 1200-1400 to engage. Fluids removed and filter checked, all good and replaced. Truck won't move now and TC isn't filling. We also checked the cooling lines for blockage, all lines are clear, no fluid coming out of line to cooler when running, tranny has fluid. The drainback valve has also been checked. I find it hard to believe the pump went bad because of a filter change. MLPS was changed also just as a guess. Truck is not filling the TC. Is there a valve that might of got stuck? She's a single mom, and really hopes someone can help.
Posted 28 April 2015 - 05:30 AM
The pump inlet filter can clog during a filter and fluid change, though this is odd unless a heavy dose of fluid contaminants circulated through the system. You share that the filter looks okay. The only way to confirm a clogged filter screen is to remove it from the pump inlet and pour fluid through the filter matrix.
There is an O-ring at the transmission case inlet for the filter tube. This O-ring could be damaged or missing. This would cause cavitation, an air gap, or reduced flow. If the filter neck is not sealing properly, this could prevent fluid from picking up. Check for the filter neck O-ring and its condition. The O-ring could have fallen out or it may have become damaged during the filter change.
Note: To save the cost of more new transmission fluid, I would filter the relatively new fluid through a piece of clean 100-mesh screen. I get this mesh screen in stainless or brass from MSCDirect, a 2-foot square piece is plenty. (McMaster-Carr or Grainger likely has it, too.) I run the fluid through the screen and into a clean pan then reuse it. I would change the filter if suspect, it's cheap enough.
You can get a rough idea of pump output by disconnecting the pressure side oil cooler line and aiming the tube end into an oil drain pan. Run the engine at an idle very briefly to see whether fluid pumps out with force. If not, the pump is not picking up. Discharge here is not proof that the pump is putting out adequate fluid pressure, but it should indicate whether the flow is adequate enough to fill the torque converter. You can test actual pressure with a gauge at the pressure test ports on the E4OD transmission case.
Since all was well before the initial oil and filter change, I doubt there is a sudden problem with the converter or pump. There will be, though, with continued attempts to drive the vehicle without adequate fluid pickup volume.
Posted 28 April 2015 - 08:27 AM
Hi, we triple checked the filter o-ring, gives a tight seal. I rechecked all the lines for blockage again and all were clear. There is no fluid coming out of the pressure tap on the side either. An old Ford mechanic told me to try blowing air through both in/out cooler lines into the tranny, to see if some check valve may be stuck. Didn't change anything, but could hear bubbles in pan. So assume all those are clear. Is there any other valve that could be stuck? Maybe one blocking the pump flow to the converter? I did blow air like he said from the cooler fitting at the radiator and get a short flow of fluid, maybe 3-4 seconds with engine idling. Strange indeed. Seems almost like it was clogged between the pump and converter before the fluid change, but the converter was full, so everything worked. Make any sense? You mentioned the pump inlet screen, is that different than the filter, and if so, is that accessible from in the pan, or does the tranny need disassembly?
Posted 29 April 2015 - 07:05 AM
Well, your comment might make sense: "Seems almost like it was clogged between the pump and converter before the fluid change, but the converter was full, so everything worked." If there is limited flow to the converter but the converter is full, it could function and stay "topped off". Draining the unit would create an empty situation, but the converter would eventually fill up, even at the slow fluid pace. When you move the selector into each gear position, can you feel a distinct "shift"? If so, this would indicate that there is fluid apply pressure within the unit.
I would stop the "second guessing" and do an actual pressure test. Get a gauge (relatively inexpensive) that will handle the pressure requirements here. Gauges come with fittings and adapters. This is a straightforward test and offers a "flow chart" approach for diagnosing trouble:
E4OD Pressure Tests.pdf 1.49MB 14 downloads
Once you know whether there is control line pressure, and how much, you can pinpoint the source of trouble. The only in-chassis "fix" outside of pump and valve body work is a solenoid or electronic issue. Pulling solenoids and cleaning passageways could help here. Before any speculation about solenoids (or checking for codes with a sophisticated diagnostic tool, which the dealership would do), confirm the fluid line pressure.
Let me know what you discover...We can drill down further once you have a clear picture of the regulated hydraulic line pressure, which will be the reading at the test port. The test is external to the unit and does not require pan removal, which you should be pleased to know. Do not continue to run the equivalent of "stall tests" with the transmission not fully engaging, or real damage can occur to the converter or transmission internal hard parts.
Posted 30 April 2015 - 10:53 PM
Dave...This is a definitive test. There's obviously no pressure being produced. If you go down the flow chart, there are some in-chassis items that could cause the zero pressure, consistent with your earlier pursuits. Several are valve body related or possibly a loose solenoid or clogged solenoid filter, which gets accessed with the valve body removed. This solenoid or filter, or the main regulator valve, could be at fault.
If you'd like to make a last ditch effort to get this transmission working without a complete teardown and rebuild, you might try rebuilding the valve body. Clean the solenoid filter hidden by the valve body while you're at it. The main regulator requires access to the pump, and if you go that far, you're likely rebuilding the entire transmission.
Still puzzling over why this unit worked fine until the fluid change? A valve like the main regulator might be your focus, though I'd do the valve body first. "Wish thought" logic is that a valve became stuck with the dropping of the pan, fluid draining and a filter install. Removing the filter allows drainback from the valve body. Conceivably, valve body parts, a solenoid, the solenoid filter or the main regulator could have become stuck if drained of fluid with contaminants involved. Despite the filtration, valve bodies and internals become quite full of fine debris over time.
That's as far as I would take it: a carefully valve body rebuild and assurance that each valve and bore is functioning properly after thorough cleaning. Removal and cleaning of the solenoid filter while the valve and control bodies are removed. If that doesn't do it, I'm on the bench for a "major rebuild", which is not extraordinarily expensive if you do the job yourself. Make sure you get a rebuilt converter, or the contaminants will start the process all over again...
Posted 04 May 2015 - 04:20 PM
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