86 posts in this topic

Ok, we had an issue with my step dad's 1994 ford f-150 4x4. It is an extended cab, with a 302 v-8, that a couple weeks ago revved up on its own, which has since been fixed. It was due to a sticking throttle cable, but, when it revved up, the transmission jumped into reverse on its own. Since then, it has happened a couple of times, even with the sticking throttle issue resolved. My question is, has anyone ever heard of this happening? If so, how common is it, and what are possible fixes for this issue?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, biggman100!  A Ford E4OD shift problem like this can be solenoids, wiring or sensor issues.  It is unlikely a mechanical issue other than bound or damaged shift linkage.  There is a PCM (powertrain control module) that can throw codes.  Use your Snap-On MT2500 to read codes if possible.  I know of possibilities with the shift solenoids, perhaps a loose connection inside the transmission pan if you cannot find anything obvious in external wiring or visible plug/wire junctions.

 

Let me know the codes thrown.  If you need interpretation or analysis of problems and components related to a code(s), I have a wealth of Ford service data from this period.  My Ford F-Series Pickup Owner's Bible published in 1994 (Bentley Publishers).  Though the book is a companion to factory workshop manuals and not a "shop manual" in itself, I have the research data that includes OEM shop manuals for the F-series truck years from 1948 through your F-150 problem child.

 

Pleased to help, the first step is any codes thrown, I checked the flow charts for your symptoms, there are peripheral problems and not anything "specific" to what you describe.  Give me some fodder, and I will provide an interpretation.

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I went to move my step dad's ford to the side of the garage, where it usually sits. The shifter was in park, and the engine started up fine, but before i could do anything, i watched as the shifter jumped into reverse, and the truck tried to jump backwards. Luckily i had my foot on the brake, and it didn't go anywhere.

 

I thought maybe the throttle sticking was why it kept jumping into reverse, but i have since fixed the sticking throttle, and twice now it has done the same thing to me. I have checked the linkage, and found nothing out of place there, and no bad bushings, so i am at a loss.

 

As for getting the codes, my brother removed the battery, so i can't retrieve any codes. A few months ago there was an issue where the starter solenoid would just engage on its own and start the truck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

biggman100...This sounds like a shift linkage problem, either external or inside the transmission case.  From what you describe, "The shifter was in park, and the engine started up fine, but before i could do anything, i watched as the shifter jumped into reverse, and the truck tried to jump backwards."

 

The manual shift valve, detent lever and the spring-loaded detent are not fully engaging Park when the column shifter reaches "Park" position.  If the column shift linkage is adjusted properly and the engine cranks over in Park or Neutral only, then the problem is either the linkage on the outside of the transmission case or inside.  This can be due to loose, misadjusted, damaged or broken shift linkage, or a loose or damaged detent lever, defective spring-loaded detent or other issues with the linkage. 

 

The linkage has the transmission partially in Park, and the manual valve in the valve body is headed for Reverse.  Any vibration or even the shake of the engine starting is enough to cause the linkage to move away from Park and into Reverse.

 

Chock the wheels, set the parking brakes, drop the transmission pan and drain the ATF.  Have someone move the shifter from Park down through Reverse to Neutral, then up again.  Note the movement of the internal linkage, check for loose retainer nuts or roll pins.  Make sure the parking pawl engages in Park position, test by rocking the truck.  The pawl should lock the transmission output shaft from rotating.

 

Your problem is a transmission not fully engaging Park.  Simultaneously, the manual valve in the valve body is not aligning properly.  If the manual valve is not aligned properly, the transmission's fluid circuits will route fluid incorrectly...At the transmission end, you should feel a distinct click and spring-loaded tension when the shift linkage engages each gear position within the transmission.  The internal transmission linkage, manual shift valve and the column shift linkage must act in sync, otherwise what appears to be Park is actually somewhere between Park and Reverse. 

 

The manual valve at the valve body must align properly with each gear selection at the column linkage.  In Park, the pawl must engage.  Let me know what you find...You want to isolate a very specific problem.  This is a safety issue that sounds mechanical, not electronic.

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I assumed it was something mechanical, but after moving his truck today, i think replacing the transmission would be the better option, due to other things i noticed. When i started it, no matter how many times i shut it off and restarted it, it sounded like a rod knocking, but after a couple minutes it would go away, so i started really listening, while having my brother start it with his foot on the brake 4 or 5 times, and found the noise is coming from the torque converter.

 

The noise would completely go away after a couple minutes, and wouldn't come back, except in reverse, so im thinking there is an issue with the torque converter at the very least. Had the linkage checked today at a transmission shop to make sure it wasn't out of adjustment, and the guy at the shop says the knock was more than likely torque converter, im thinking replacing it will be the best option. He does have a spare transmission that he had a shop rebuild for his 1995 f-150, when that transmission was acting up, but it never got put in the truck.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like the flex plate might be cracked or damaged.  When you change transmissions, replace the converter and closely inspect the flex plate for cracks and fatigue.  The flex plate is a relatively inexpensive item when you've already stepped up for the cost of a transmission rebuild and a fresh torque converter. 

 

If you replace all of this, and the linkage, motor mounts and transmission mounts appear okay, this should work out.

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The rebuilt transmission out of the 1995 already has a new torque converter, so im going to just use that one. As for the flex plate, i didn't think of that, but in light of the fact that today i got under the truck and checked a few things, and found the torque converter to flex plate bolts were extremely loose, and re-tightening them, with lock tite, and only 2 of the 4 actually seemed to get tight, and realizing that the torque converter has been banging against the flex plate for who knows how long, that would make sense.

 

My plan, once a couple other issues are dealt with on other vehicles, is to pull the transmission out of the ford, replace the trans mount, and more than likely the flex plate, as well as all the shift linkage bushings, and transmission itself, as well as the motor mounts, because i have suspected an issue with at least one of them for awhile now, and then see if anything else needs to be done. The problem with this truck is that it is an older one, and my step dad does not want to spend money on it, but at the same time, he expects it to be reliable and safe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds familiar...Of course, it's cheaper to not buy a new vehicle; however, you need to constantly perform preventive maintenance and inspection if you want the vehicle to perform as reliably as a new one...Unless you're in a position to do professional-grade work on your vehicle, there's the added cost and dilemma of subletting the work.  When considering a used vehicle, shop hourly rates, even for independent shops, now hover around $75-$100 per hour flat rate.  Considering just the cost of a DRBIII scan tool or equivalent, new or used, it's understandable why.

 

So, this is an issue, because safety and reliability are essential, especially for our 4x4s used in remote backcountry, and every part of any vehicle has a lifespan or duty cycle. Having a fleet truck maintenance and restoration background, I have been fortunate, and realistic enough, to stay on top of our vehicles.  We've never been stranded nor had a total vehicle "breakdown" or tow in our family vehicles, and this is actually most unusual.  (Minor trailside fixes don't count, we kept going without a glitch.)  

 

The closest event was a limp-in drive to the dealership under warranty when the Dodge Ram had 800 miles on it, and the Cummins ECU decided to quit, not just on our truck but on a whole slough of '04 models.  (Recently, Chrysler extended the warranty on the ECUs for these vehicles.)  A change out of the PCM under warranty, a flash of the new Cummins Recon computer, and the truck has run flawlessly for the following 120K plus miles.

 

This is the "price" of used vehicle ownership.  When you have a family and children, safety and reliability are of the utmost importance.  Maybe we should start these two new topics:  "Used Versus New Vehicles" and "Preventive Care"?

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Both of those topics would probably end up being hot debates. There are people who have valid points on both sides of the coin, and there never seems to be a consensus on either topic.

 

Some swear by new vehicles, and some swear by used vehicles. Preventive care is one of those issues where there are so many factors, it's sometimes hard to say who is right, depending on what part of preventive care you are bringing up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm having a shifting problem with my 1990 f=150. I think the tranny shop said it's an E4OD.  I had some seals and filter replaced a few months ago. Drove several thou miles with no trouble. Lately it started not shifting from 2nd to 3rd when it was cold. It seemed like it was in neutral-revved high without going anywhere- until it finally did shift.  It's gotten worse the last couple of days and now it doesnt want to up shift. Can barely get  past 35mph. Unfortunately Im 200 miles from home.  Any suggestions?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello, Fred, welcome to the forums.  Sorry to hear you're stranded away from home.  Let's see if we can target that problem and get you home...

 

From what you describe, at worst this could be a more serious direct clutch or center support assembly issue, which would require a teardown/rebuild.  Before jumping to that conclusion or testing hydraulic and mechanical components, I would check the PCM for any stored codes. 

 

Loose or damaged electrical connectors, defective SS1 or SS2 shift solenoids, loose or damaged vehicle wiring, the PCM module itself or the vehicle speed sensor (not likely the VSS, as the problem is only on 2nd/3rd shift) can each create shift issues.  There is a specific set of diagnostic codes related to the E4OD transmission malfunctions.  See if a code is stored already and run the diagnostic sequence for the PCM and the transmission specifically. 

 

I can provide a list of mechanical/hydraulic trouble spots for the E4OD if you cannot find a simpler electrical or electronic issue.  The SS1 or SS2 solenoids or wiring circuits could be an issue; electrical problems can be fixed without a teardown.  If no electrical, PCM, wiring, VSS or solenoid issues exist, and if you do need to tear into the E4OD, the likely cause of this 2nd-3rd shift issue is the valve body, 2-3 shift valve, an SS1 or SS2 solenoid or circuit malfunction, a damaged center support assembly, overall wear or a faulty direct clutch assembly.  In any case beyond the valve body and solenoids, major work would be involved. 

 

Always attempt the simpler, in-chassis diagnostics and fixes first...Do not drive with the transmission "slipping", as severe damage will occur rapidly.  Let us know what you find.

 

I'm here for any additional help.  Looking forward to your participation at the forums...

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Moses,

Thanks. That's good advice.  The VSS is interesting to me. I found that if I was able to get up to around 50mph (down hill) it would upshift to high gear (OD?) and I could cruise at 60 to 70 no problem-so it seemed that vehicle speed was somehow related to shift problem.  I drove from SF bay to North Tahoe. Going up hill if I had to downshift manually when I went back to OD the upshifts happened as long as speed was sufficient.  The really odd thing that happened when I got off the freeway was that it didn't want to come out of gear when I approached a stop. Luggin motor as if it was a manual tranny in high gear.  I popped in neutral to keep it running. Then it was back to the same trouble when I got going again-no up ( or very delayed)shift in mid gear unless I could get up to speed.

I was hoping to drive it back home to go to my tranny shop that did the seals and filter. That sounds ill advised.  I could tow home or find a local shop to check it out. Do you know anyone in North Tahoe/Truckee area? I could take a look underneath if I knew what to look for.

Thanks again, Fred

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fred, sounds like a VSS possibility...Check the wiring and connections to the vehicle speed sensor.  Check wiring in general.  The coming to a stop issue could be the lockup converter staying locked, and this might also be a VSS problem.  Before replacing parts, look for the simpler fix around the VSS:  wiring and connections.  If the VSS tests defective, replace it.

 

As for shops at the Tahoe Area, I suggest Levrett Transmission at Reno on E. 4th Street.  They are a multi-generation family business, and the E4OD is a mainstay for this rebuilding and troubleshooting shop.  Levrett Transmission enjoys a good reputation locally:

 

Levrett Transmission

832 E 4th St

Reno, NV 89512

(775) 323-6151

http://www.levretttransmission.com/

 

A chat with the Levretts by phone might cast some light, they work on the E4OD day in and out, especially Ford F-trucks.

 

Keep us posted, Fred...

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alright so i started to have a problem with my 95 F150 351w (has 109k miles on it) with the E4OD transmission yesterday. It took more rpms to get it into drive and when at a stop it was not wanting to move under its own power. Today i had put some shutter fluid in it and it seemed better but not completely unsolved, while i was goin up a steep hill i had completely lost drive but had only reverse and park left, what would cause me to completely lose drive?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

95Mudder...Have you changed the filter and fluid recently, not just a top-off?  A clogged or loose filter can cause this problem, and if left unresolved, you will burn up clutches.  The Levritt Transmission idea is making even more sense, getting a fluid and filter change with an inspection at the same time.

 

There are distinct causes for loss of drive.  However, the fact that it does this on a grade raises suspicions about fluid level and the ability to pick up fluid.  Can you drive safely into Reno and have Levritt drop the transmission pan?  The symptoms are not good...

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a 91 F150 RWD E4OD that is throwing a 624 code. I've replaced the VSS, RABS,MAP, Neutral Safety Switch, TPS and IAC and it's still shifting hard through the gears. Think it's the wiring harness or could the EPC solenoid be shot?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Keithfromphilly...The 624 code can indicate either:

 

1) A "short circuit that can cause minimum EPC pressure (minimum capacity).  Limits engine torque (partial fuel shut-off, heavy misfire).  Flashing TCIL." or

 

2) "An open circuit that causes maximum EPC, harsh engagements and shifts.  May flash TCIL."

 

Sounds like you have the open circuit, as this does fit your transmission symptoms.  You likely have either an EPC circuit "open", a shorted circuit or an output driver issue.  Check the wiring, connector plugs and the output driver.  The problem will be somewhere in that circuit or the output driver.  Don't spend additional money on solenoids at this stage, they're probably not the trouble.

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the reply. I pulled the harness today and found a loose connection on the plug that connects to the trans. Reseated the loose wire and problem solved. I'm glad it was something simple and not a solenoid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great when this works out well.  This is an instance where Ford's OBD troubleshooting was spot on!  The 624 code coupled with your shifting symptoms gave us a positive and useful lead...

 

Good job, Keith.  Looking forward to your participation at the forums!

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Funny you say that Keith...I've been a professional light truck wrench since the late 1960s.  At that time, we serviced and rebuilt very conventional trucks, and in my first professional role, I was a light and medium duty truck fleet mechanic.  (Yes, journey-level professionals were called "mechanics" then, not "technicians", and I'm okay with either moniker.)  The fleet was 1949-64 vehicles, all breaker point ignitions, drum brakes, grease-able chassis points or at least steering linkage and drivelines, manual linkage transmissions, vacuum modulators on the automatic transmissions, very fundamental to work on.  Trucks were considered utility vehicles and had to be serviceable with accessible components.

 

I've witnessed and been hands-on with the complete evolution of vehicles.  Frankly, today's "light trucks" are no longer fleet engineered for ease of service.  In fact, this is the era of electronics and passenger car accessories, including your '94 Ford with MPI/EFI and a transmission controlled by electronics.  You're right, it's a matter of "degree".  Electronics did not end ease of troubleshooting.  The code you pulled from the '94 is actually very helpful.  OBD (onboard diagnostics) can be quite useful, though certainly not always able to pinpoint a problem or offer a solution.

 

What I consider ease of service is when you can still access components in the repair and rebuilding process.  When the heater core of a 2012-up Jeep JK Wrangler takes a dealership professional 8 hours to replace, at the expense of tearing half the under dash apart, I have trouble calling this traditional Jeep utility model a readily serviceable vehicle. 

 

Like other professional techs and fleet operators, I'll always expect my trucks to be serviceable.  Bad enough that cars have such a poor track record for service/parts access.  Visualizing my head downward under the dash with feet over the seat tops while servicing the heater does not appeal to me.  I'm sure that dealership techs doing warranty work (been there, done that, GMC truck line and warranty mechanic in the early S/T-truck era) would fully agree.

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a 92 f150 flare side 4x4, with the e40d transmission. Lately, in overdrive it will not shift from second gear, and on the occasion it does, it sometimes revs as if the truck is in neutral. What could be causing this? The check engine light is on as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

rfields223...Would like to know what the Engine Check code reads.  Auto Zone and others will often read a code for free on OBD.  Or you can purchase a simple and inexpensive code reader (only) that does not do diagnostics.  What we need is a code, I'll help troubleshoot from there.

 

Meanwhile, scroll up and read Keithfromphilly's first question and the exchange we shared.  This is the kind of trouble we're seeking, something that might connect the Engine Check (actually powertrain, including the transmission) to your symptom.  It would be advantageous to find a simpler problem than something deeper within the transmission.

 

Pleased to follow up with suggestions once we get this Check Engine clue.

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Moses, rfields223 here again. I pulled the codes and got three, 12, 13,& 27. From what info I've gathered a 12 is idle control fault, 13 is dc motor did not move, but 27 seems to be a ghost.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

27 is the vehicle speed sensor.

 

Now that I have the codes, the engine idle is rough and high, and the transmission will not shift from second to third in overdrive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Powertrain Control System issues with the E4OD can cause your symptoms.  At this point, let's avoid the hydraulic system or friction clutch issues, which generally require a transmission rebuild.

 

For now, I would focus on the VSS.  This is a crucial signal in the PCS, and you're getting a clear message of a fault.  Before racing to replace the VSS, look for wiring and connector troubles, the easier remedies.  If the VSS unit tests defective, I would replace it, regardless of whether there are additional troubles with the transmission.

 

The 12 and 13 codes should also be explored and resolved, though they may have no direct bearing on the 2nd gear skip-and-slip.  Also check the shift linkage and the shift module at the transmission for clear engagement in each shifter position.  Chock the wheels, set the parking brake, and do not run the engine during this check!  You're simply sensing the "feel" of each shift detent position at the transmission's manual lever.  It might help to have an assistant move the shift lever.  Make sure your helper does not crank the engine over while releasing the shift lever from Park!

 

These are the least costly repairs and troubleshooting steps for openers. We can go much deeper.  If you need details on troubleshooting the VSS, just ask.

 

Moses   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you Moses, I did indeed check the vss, and it came up as faulty. I replaced, and it did indeed help my initial over revving problem. However, I tore into the overdrive button on the gear shift selector and found it had no continuity, I removed it and therefore took the truck out of overdrive. Shifts fine from second into third and so on. But now, there's an extreme shudder somewhere in low speeds ( 40-55). Also I'm throwing new codes, 25, 32, and 76.

 

Thanks for your help earlier, your previous email led me to the vss and overdrive button! I will check all connections leading to the trans when the weather clears.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pleased this is starting to sift out, rfields223.  Once you get this overdrive button and circuits restored, we'll see whether these new codes stick.  If you have codes at that point, we’ll take this to the next step...

 

Thanks for the update!

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New overdrive button is in, and things have not changed, except the codes possibly. Now it's not only throwing the previous ones, but new ones as well such as 72, 13, and 27. Beginning to think there is a short circuit somewhere, which is excellent because I'm horrible at diagnosing electrical problems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay...So what are the symptoms?  When you have a "global" and apparently random problem like this one, your idea of a wiring short, too much resistance in a circuit or a harness connector issue becomes likely.  Let's start the troubleshooting approach by reconciling the codes being thrown:

 

32—Exhaust Gas Recirculation Valve Position Pressure Feedback Voltage Lower Than Expected

 

73—Insufficient Throttle Position Change Dynamic Test

 

27—Insufficient Vehicle Speed Sensor Input

 

13—Direct Current Motor Did Not Move

 

Repeat of 27—Insufficient Vehicle Speed Sensor Input

 

If we look at this in an overlay, some of the codes point to specific troubles, others are inconsistent.  For example, the #13 code about the direct current motor is specific and can be verified by seeing whether the Direct Current Motor does work or not.  Throttle position change errors would have a counterpart in poor drivability or idle roughness.  Despite the wonders of "codes", we need to assess the actual performance troubles.

 

Did the shift-skip come back, or is the transmission actually shifting okay still?  How does the engine run, cold start, idle and generally perform?  Note that you're getting an array of trouble codes and need to separate whether parts are actually defective or the system is simply communicating poorly.

 

Communication is dependent upon circuit integrity.  This means that connections and wiring integrity must be intact.  Understanding, logically, that "everything" doesn't usually fail at the same time, your gut thought about wiring circuit opens or maybe too much resistance is probably true.  In terms of defective wires, the VSS did test defective, and it also may have shorted or overloaded wiring when it went down for the count.  That's a possibility, but let's not borrow that trouble just yet.

 

I did a forum entry about lamp load testing, and that may be valuable to your troubleshooting approach.  See this entry and the vlog I did on DC circuit testing.  Also enter "lamp load" in the Search box at these forums for more details.  (Make sure the Search box is set for "Forums" search, not "This topic".)   

 

Before jumping to the conclusion that a host of wiring troubles exist, let's consider the ground circuits and the harness plug connections.  If wiring looks intact and not fried or exposed, try disconnecting the connector plugs related to the powertrain and VSS very carefully to avoid breaking two-decade old plastic connectors!  Clean up the connections with a specified electrical contact cleaner, allow to dry completely then apply dielectric grease to the connector faces before reconnecting the plug halves.  (This will provide the necessary moisture barrier without preventing conductivity.  See my comments about the use of dielectric grease.)

 

So let's isolate the connectors involved with the VSS and other fault codes for openers.  Check ground points and clean as needed throughout the truck chassis, at the battery and in the engine bay ground circuits. Unplug, clean and re-plug the EEC processor connectors—carefully.  If this does not remedy the issue, we can isolate wiring areas and begin checking for circuit integrity or lamp load test.

 

As you can tell, I'm not a big fan of "parts replacing" as a troubleshooting tool.  Let's first find the cause of the code(s), then replace defective parts if necessary.

 

Moses

 

 

 

 .  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

truck starts went in gear just fine when came back from new mexico when got back to wyoming and almost to my house and parked when getting ready to move it again hard to get in gear but went in to gear but would not move in drive or reverse turn off truck and tried it again moved a foot then would not move reverse or drive tried again and the third time didnt move not even drive or reverseb need help trying to figure this out

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Presumably E4OD?  What year?  Did you do the obvious, check fluid level, signs of burnt fluid on the dipstick?  Is the shift linkage attached and not binding?  Is the shift module intact and not binding at the side of the transmission case? Loose wires to the transmission?  Any "codes" indicated?

 

I can provide the troubleshooting steps if the transmission passes these immediate checks...

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the shift linkage is attached and seems "normal" by the shift lever feel, the "no first or reverse engagement" on an E4OD is typically a mechanical issue and not electrical.  Here are the Ford troubleshooting recommendations for this condition.  Read through, there are a few "simpler" items but many require interior transmission work or even an overhaul:

 

E4OD Transmission Mechanical 1st-Reverse Trouble.pdf

 

This is a PDF, so zoom-in for easier reading.  See if any items apply.  Consider the less difficult repairs first.  Note that the OD engagement can be an issue, and many have trouble with the E4OD overdrive switch and circuit, which would fall into the category of a "simpler" fix...Glad to discuss this further after you consider this information.

 

Since you were doing just fine until you parked, I'm not as concerned about the deep troubles.  Something more basic could be involved, like the OD engagement circuit.

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it made a whiping like noise at a light but still drove just fine but soon as we parked it thats when we had the problems

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Try fiddling with the OD switch control...See if that has any impact.  Again, try all of the "easy" possibilities before plunging into the heart of the transmission. 

 

How many miles does this E4OD unit have?  Its history as you know it?  Last fluid and filter change?  A clogged transmission filter can cause these symptoms.

 

Does it feel like the unit "engages" in either 1st or reverse?  I understood that the vehicle won't move...

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it has 300,000 miles and transmission fluid change not sure it in gages i can feel that but the whiping noise at a stop light is what gots me stumped

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you cannot recall or have a record of the last service done, by all means begin with a transmission fluid and filter change.  Oil pan down will also turn up telltale signs of trouble at the same time...Long overdue?

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ok and ford dealer ship said something it sounds like the pump inside the transmission but i would rather try the easyier steps before going for the bigger step

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would not hurt to drop the pan for an inspection.  Metal, clutch debris and signs of scorched fluid would suggest hard parts and clutch damage.  If relatively metal-free and "clean", simply in need of a filter and fluid change, you could get off easier. 

 

The "whirring" can be oil starvation or an actual metallic noise, starvation being a possible filter issue if caught early.  Metal grating noises would be much deeper problems. 

 

Dropping the pan should reveal a lot.  That's the least expensive first step and the simplest place to start...

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

devil...Filter and fluid change...Inspect the pan for debris.  If you post some photos of the filter and pan (fluid poured off but debris still in place), I can make an assessment.  There's a story in that debris, and I can read it...Before cleaning the pan, please take a few photos and share.

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a 1995 F250 XLT w/7.3 Turbo Diesel.  From what I'm finding on the Internet it appears this should be an E40D transmission.  I'll list some symptoms and then some background.  Truck will go into Reverse and seemingly Neutral as it will move backwards in reverse and fail to move in Neutral.  However, I cannot get it to go forward at all now, not D, 2, or 1.  Some background: Some months ago I was driving it when I heard a pop and it seemed like I lost gears as it began coasting.  I pulled it over, went through the gear shift a few times and it then took off when I revved it up a little.  It then seemed to drive fine, however, I found when I got to my destination that the Reverse wouldn't work at that time.  It seemed to drive forward OK.  I drove it a couple more times on short trips in town before parking it for several months as I didn't have an opportunity to do much with it.  Now the weather is nicer so I decided I'd see what I could do with it while I also had a couple days off work.  I was able to get it to go forward, but seemingly reluctantly, but it did allow me to drive a circle in the yard a couple times.  Reverse wasn't working initially, then I parked it again and the next time I tried it wouldn't go forward, but would go in reverse. 

 

My dad suggested that I change the trans fluid and filter just as a first step.  I know that it has been a long time since it was changed because I never had since I'd had the truck and I put limited mileage on it over the course of each year and never knew what was needed for that.  The vehicle has just under 300k, most of that mileage occurred before I bought it used, but it has been a good truck really prior to this issue.  I went ahead and changed the fluid and filter.  I emptied pan (fluid was dark instead of red looking more like used motor oil).  Magnet had quite a bit of buildup on it in my mind, but when watching videos online that seemed somewhat normal for an older truck with significant mileage.  I used the method of unhooking the return line from the cooler to the transmission to help empty the rest of the old fluid.  So I added 7 qts of fluid after the filter change and cleanup of the pan, including magnet, then I ran it while catching used fluid through a hose attached to that return line.  After collecting a few quarts I then added 6 more quarts and did this again.  I then added another 5 quarts and ran it one more time until it appeared I was getting new fluid instead of old and I estimated I had pulled out 16+ quarts of the old fluid between what I originally drained and what I had just flushed out.  I don't know the exact quantity as I accidentally spilled some and had quite a bit drip under the truck.  But I was relatively confident that I had removed 17-19 quarts overall.  I then added 2 more quarts as the dipstick was showing low (one quart, ran for a while then added another one).  So all in all I used 20 quarts of new fluid, but definitely pumped some of it out along with the old and the dipstick looked good at this point.  BTW I did have my son move the shifter through the gears each time as I had added new fluid and was flushing out the old to ensure I pushed some new fluid through the various routes.

 

Despite this new filter and fluid the truck will only run in reverse (neutral does seem to work).  I cannot feel it ever engage when we choose D, 2, or 1 but it is obvious that reverse engages when selected and neutral disengages when selected.  Any suggestions on what I can try or should look for?  I am not that mechanically inclined, but cannot afford to take it somewhere to be worked on so I am going to have to try to see if there is anything I can do to get it operational.

 

Thanks for any feedback you can give.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

clameramseyc...You did go to great lengths to thoroughly flush the transmission, which will be a useful insight for others.  It was obviously overdue from your description of the fluid color and texture...

 

So, no forward gears, reverse intact.  Here is a quick comparison/overview of the troubleshooting flow charts for each.  I furnished info in an earlier post that is also relevant.  With a comparison like this, you sift out the distinct differences between no reverse and no forward operation symptoms.  One item that draws my attention is the pump filter, though these generally do not clog unless the main oil filter is so bad that contaminants get into the interior fluid routes:

 

E4OD Forward and Reverse Failure.pdf

 

Without being the bearer of bad tidings, if the internal linkage, shift solenoid and other in-chassis repairs do not remedy this problem, the transmission does need a bench rebuild.  Bands, servos and clutches simply have a lifespan.  Simpler fixes are always worth trying, though the 7.3L diesel and 300K miles does seem like a "normal" service life for a rebuild. 

 

Pleased to walk through any troubleshooting short of that rebuild, I am concerned about your budget.  On that note, ATSM makes decent, easier to follow service manuals for rebuilding popular units like the E4OD, perhaps you could rebuild your unit for a reasonable cost on your own.  We can talk about needed tools, what typically fails, what to observe when you get the unit apart, and price shopping tips before you plunge into rebuilding the transmission.

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"devil" started this topic at the Ford E4OD transmission thread.  I moved the question to its own topic for replies on the subject: 

 

"My 1988 Ford F150 302 V-8 engine cranks then bogs.  Won't start.  Battery goes dead quickly.  Changed coil, ignition module, distributor cap, should be on top dead center. Had starter checked is good. Getting gas can smell it. What else could i check?  What could be wrong?"—devil

 

Go to http://forums.4wdmechanix.com/topic/572-1988-f150-302-v-8-bogs-while-cranking-over-and-wont-start/ for further discussion and replies on this topic...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope this is the forum that will help me put my Trans problem to rest. Here it goes:

1992 F150 5.8l 4x4 and an E4od. I just rebuilt the engine, added Mass Air Flow and deleted the EGR. At the same time I had the E4od rebuilt and hD brand new for solinoids installed. So I installed the drivetrain and now I am having shifting issues. I am able to put it in drive and it will sometimes shift to 2nd but then at 55 it will not shift to 3rd then is hard to downshit. I have put it up on stands and it does it time and time again. I have installed a new VSS in the rear ended and the speedo reads perfectly. I pulled the codes and I am getting 334 and 336 but nothing for the Trans. I have disconnect the negative battery post for the night and plan on getting back into it tomorrow after work. Any help on this is much appreciated. Where should I start to weed possibilities out before I pull the pan?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Check grounds in the circuit for the solenoids.  This sounds like governor or speed sensor related...Keep us posted, I can respond this Sunday, I'm in the field filming.

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Moses thanks for the reply. Last night I put in a new TPS and have correct parameters now so that eliminated codes 334 and 336. I cleared the codes and warmed up the engine on jack stands then gave the Trans another go. Engine started up perfectly, idled smooth then put her in gear and it shifted hard from 1st to 2nd, then the OD light began flashing. I pulled the codes and 624 and 629 came up. Tonight I will check the connectors at the transmission for any irregularities. Thanks again Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Keep us posted...I'll respond over the weekend if you haven't solved the riddle by then...

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update: I had the EGR delete plug in incorrect, swapped it around and the 624 & 629 code went awAy. But the shifting problem is still there. I replaced the solenoid pack and went through the valve bodies with my Trans builder and everything checked out. I cleared the codes and I am not receiving any codes but the Trans still is not shifting correctly. The Trans builder recommended replacing the psom or bypassing it. Is it possible to bypass it? I am at my wits end with this thing. Any help is much appreciated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I did some research.  Many find relief from a PSOM (speedo unit and module) changeout or even an engine tune-up.  If the ABS module and VSS systems check okay, the ECU/PCM comes up often as a trouble source.  Some find that simply unplugging connectors and reconnecting the harness plugs to the modules can help.  I know this is true from the Jeep systems, which have notoriously poor connections in many cases.  Black oxide coating on connector slots and pins is a clear sign of resistance problems.  Clean with spray electrical cleaner and fine Scotchbrite, never by scraping.  Do not scrape pins or slots with a small screwdriver blade or sharp edge...

 

I'm not an advocate of "parts replacing", and I always want a clear solution.  New modules are too expensive for "testing" purposes.  I found that Module Masters at Idaho can do a quality rebuild of an otherwise spendy module, and there are other module rebuilding companies that come up in searches.  Module Masters did a GM/Kelsey Hayes ABS module for my son's S/T10 truck for $130.  GM wanted $800 for the module.  The rebuild included upgrades around known weaknesses in these modules.

 

If the engine is in good tune, I'd at least try fiddling with the PSOM connector, which could point to a connection or speedo/module problem.  Don't rule out the ABS system, as that interfaces with the shift and PCM/ECU functions.  Since the truck ran okay then suddenly started this disturbing cycle of troubles, I'm not quick to tear the whole truck apart.  Concentrate on speed sensing devices and systems that feed vehicle speed information to the transmission shift processes.  I would test devices before arbitrarily replacing them.  Parts replacement cost is too great for experimenting.

 

Address one device, harness or function at a time to pinpoint the issue.  The symptoms you describe are seldom "multiple defect" troubles.  If you send off modules for rebuilding, ask that the shop test the device first to determine whether the module is actually the trouble source.

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So tonight I found out that my 1992 did not come with 4wabs. The VSS is wired straight to the PSOM. I attempted to wire the VSS directly to the computer but it would kill the engine once the tires were moving. So I put it back together as factory and now I am thinking I will try my buddies PSOM. Any other ideas?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does the truck have rear ABS only?  Check out wiring to the rear ABS system.  Does the ABS pick up a signal from the ring gear tone ring and a sensor probe?  Check plug connections for corrosion or poor contact.  Still thinking of the speed sensing system.

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Last night I swapped out the PSOM and MLPS from a good running vehicle and i got the same issue.  No codes shifting poorly, not going past third.  Then I gapped the VSS from .045" to .02" from the Tone ring and began getting a different reaction from the transmission.  It was shifting through 3rd and would jump into OD then back out then back in.    I believe the VSS is the culprit (even though it is brand new) so tonight i will swap it out to see if it is truly the issue.    Thanks for your help y'all.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Check the tone ring sensor pickup and its lead with an ohmmeter for opens or out-of-whack resistance.  This is why I asked about rear ABS and a pickup.  You could be right about the VSS or possibly the ABS module.  Try not to spend excess money on parts replacing.  Logic points to under-chassis stuff that gets exposed to vibration, the elements, corrosion and shock loads.  Connections, wire opens and excess resistance can raise havoc.  Often parts replacement can "cure" the issue by simply chafing corrosion off the connector contacts during installation.  The new part gets the credit.

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So this weekend I got some solid time to investigate.   I double checked all the connections, checked the gap on the tone ring, and went for a test drive. In drive, it goes through all of the gears and into overdrive, shifts down to 2nd when I manually pull it down, but it will not go into first gear when  i pull it into first at a stop.   Now time to look into that.   Thanks for  your help Moses!   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Help!  A friend changed her trans fluid and filter on her 1995 F150 4x4 with E4OD that was acting fine,just regular maint.  She didn't know she had a torque converter drain plug, so just filter and fluid.  Truck started shifting hard into reverse and drive immediately after.  When she realized she had a drainable TC, all fluids were replaced. then truck had to be revved to 1200-1400 to engage.  Fluids removed and filter checked, all good and replaced.  Truck won't move now and TC isn't filling.  We also checked the cooling lines for blockage, all lines are clear, no fluid coming out of line to cooler when running, tranny has fluid.  The drainback valve has also been checked.  I find it hard to believe the pump went bad because of a filter change. MLPS was changed also just as a guess.  Truck is not filling the TC. Is there a valve that might of got stuck?  She's a single mom, and really hopes someone can help.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The pump inlet filter can clog during a filter and fluid change, though this is odd unless a heavy dose of fluid contaminants circulated through the system.  You share that the filter looks okay.  The only way to confirm a clogged filter screen is to remove it from the pump inlet and pour fluid through the filter matrix. 

 

There is an O-ring at the transmission case inlet for the filter tube.  This O-ring could be damaged or missing.  This would cause cavitation, an air gap, or reduced flow.  If the filter neck is not sealing properly, this could prevent fluid from picking up.  Check for the filter neck O-ring and its condition.  The O-ring could have fallen out or it may have become damaged during the filter change. 

 

Note: To save the cost of more new transmission fluid, I would filter the relatively new fluid through a piece of clean 100-mesh screen.  I get this mesh screen in stainless or brass from MSCDirect, a 2-foot square piece is plenty.  (McMaster-Carr or Grainger likely has it, too.)  I run the fluid through the screen and into a clean pan then reuse it.  I would change the filter if suspect, it's cheap enough.

 

You can get a rough idea of pump output by disconnecting the pressure side oil cooler line and aiming the tube end into an oil drain pan.  Run the engine at an idle very briefly to see whether fluid pumps out with force.  If not, the pump is not picking up.  Discharge here is not proof that the pump is putting out adequate fluid pressure, but it should indicate whether the flow is adequate enough to fill the torque converter.  You can test actual pressure with a gauge at the pressure test ports on the E4OD transmission case.

 

Since all was well before the initial oil and filter change, I doubt there is a sudden problem with the converter or pump.  There will be, though, with continued attempts to drive the vehicle without adequate fluid pickup volume.

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, we triple checked the filter o-ring, gives a tight seal.  I rechecked all the lines for blockage again and all were clear.  There is no fluid coming out of the pressure tap on the side either.  An old Ford mechanic told me to try blowing air through both in/out cooler lines into the tranny, to see if some check valve may be stuck.  Didn't change anything, but could hear bubbles in pan.  So assume all those are clear. Is there any other valve that could be stuck?  Maybe one blocking the pump flow to the converter? I did blow air like he said from the cooler fitting at the radiator and get a short flow of fluid, maybe 3-4 seconds with engine idling.  Strange indeed.  Seems almost like it was clogged between the pump and converter before the fluid change, but the converter was full, so everything worked.  Make any sense?  You mentioned the pump inlet screen, is that different than the filter, and if so, is that accessible from in the pan, or does the tranny need disassembly?

 

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, your comment might make sense: "Seems almost like it was clogged between the pump and converter before the fluid change, but the converter was full, so everything worked."  If there is limited flow to the converter but the converter is full, it could function and stay "topped off".  Draining the unit would create an empty situation, but the converter would eventually fill up, even at the slow fluid pace.  When you move the selector into each gear position, can you feel a distinct "shift"?  If so, this would indicate that there is fluid apply pressure within the unit. 

 

I would stop the "second guessing" and do an actual pressure test.  Get a gauge (relatively inexpensive) that will handle the pressure requirements here.  Gauges come with fittings and adapters.  This is a straightforward test and offers a "flow chart" approach for diagnosing trouble:

 

E4OD Pressure Tests.pdf

 

Once you know whether there is control line pressure, and how much, you can pinpoint the source of trouble.  The only in-chassis "fix" outside of pump and valve body work is a solenoid or electronic  issue.  Pulling solenoids and cleaning passageways could help here.  Before any speculation about solenoids (or checking for codes with a sophisticated diagnostic tool, which the dealership would do), confirm the fluid line pressure.

 

Let me know what you discover...We can drill down further once you have a clear picture of the regulated hydraulic line pressure, which will be the reading at the test port.  The test is external to the unit and does not require pan removal, which you should be pleased to know.  Do not continue to run the equivalent of "stall tests" with the transmission not fully engaging, or real damage can occur to the converter or transmission internal hard parts.

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Moses,

I did the pressure test as directed, zero pressure. Fluid level is correct. Looks like the pump failed. Unless you have any other ideas. Gauge is serviceable by the way, I checked my F150, worked as advertised.

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dave...This is a definitive test.  There's obviously no pressure being produced.  If you go down the flow chart, there are some in-chassis items that could cause the zero pressure, consistent with your earlier pursuits.  Several are valve body related or possibly a loose solenoid or clogged solenoid filter, which gets accessed with the valve body removed.  This solenoid or filter, or the main regulator valve, could be at fault.

 

If you'd like to make a last ditch effort to get this transmission working without a complete teardown and rebuild, you might try rebuilding the valve body.  Clean the solenoid filter hidden by the valve body while you're at it.  The main regulator requires access to the pump, and if you go that far, you're likely rebuilding the entire transmission.

 

Still puzzling over why this unit worked fine until the fluid change?  A valve like the main regulator might be your focus, though I'd do the valve body first.  "Wish thought" logic is that a valve became stuck with the dropping of the pan, fluid draining and a filter install.  Removing the filter allows drainback from the valve body.  Conceivably, valve body parts, a solenoid, the solenoid filter or the main regulator could have become stuck if drained of fluid with contaminants involved.  Despite the filtration, valve bodies and internals become quite full of fine debris over time.

 

That's as far as I would take it:  a carefully valve body rebuild and assurance that each valve and bore is functioning properly after thorough cleaning.  Removal and cleaning of the solenoid filter while the valve and control bodies are removed.  If that doesn't do it, I'm on the bench for a "major rebuild", which is not extraordinarily expensive if you do the job yourself.  Make sure you get a rebuilt converter, or the contaminants will start the process all over again...

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the recommendations. We will pull the valve body as soon as possible, then go from there. Would swapping it from another E4OD from a 90 work? Either way, the valvebody will be looked at, then the solenoid pack. I know the 90 solenoid pack is not interchangeable, but will be checked also. If all checks good, and still no movement, rebuild time. Thanks for your help.

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're very welcome...This sounds like the approach I would take, Dave...Keep us all posted!

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey guys! After googling around for answers, this seems to be the right topic to get to the bottom of the problem with the E4OD transmission on my 1990 F-250 7.3. Im a decent mechanic, but not that skilled in the technical terms of the english language, but hopefully we will understand each other somehow... ;)

 

The symptoms are similar to many of the other ones here. When put in DRIVE, the truck feels underpowered, engine revs up with very little motion on the truck. Takes forever to get the truck moving. I notice when I eventually get up to normal speed, that the speedometer keeps "flickering" while the transmission seems to go in and out of neutral and drive inconsistantly, but still with forward motion on the truck.

 

Seems to me that this might be an electrical problem, as the transmission fluid seems to be at proper level and clean when checked. Maybe a faulty contact point. The problem keeps coming and going, some days the truck handles like its no troubles at all, but lately it has occurred every time Im driving.

 

So where would I start troubleshooting with a multimeter? I've had my truck for about 4 years, but im not that familiar with the electrical components of the E4OD, so I dont know what to look for.

 

Another thing. Before this problem occured, the truck would sometimes start to roll after transmission was put in PARK position, with an awful metallic sound following. Like some cogwheels are grinding or slipping on each other. Dont know if its related though.

 

What do you think? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Muddy Viking...Welcome to the forums...The PARK position ratcheting sounds like partial engagement of the transmission's parking pawl.  This could be a shift linkage (mechanical) issue.  The linkage may not be pushing the parking pawl linkage far enough.  If so, there's partial engagement at times.  This could also contribute to your partial or sluggish engagement issue with the transmission.  The manual valve in the valve body may not be aligning properly, causing partial gear engagement.

 

I would adjust and closely inspect the shift linkage from the column shifter all the way to the transmission case lever.  Be certain nothing is loose, restricting travel or out of adjustment.  If this does not turn up a specific and related problem to your poor transmission performance, let us know.  We'll delve further.

 

Meanwhile, do not drive the truck under load with the possibility of partial gear engagement or low pressure apply.  This will damage clutches and hard parts within the transmission.  Then you'll be facing a major rebuild.

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks!

 

I'll try to take a closer look today. when the rain stops... ;)

 

Looking forward to put next years garageplans into action. "Field repairs" gets unpleasant after some time when rain, snow or mosquito are the only options for background enviroment... :rolleyes:

 

If it helps some the trucks mileage is about 155 000 miles, not sure about the transmission. Have not changed the transmission fluid during the 4 years in my ownership, but the truck doesn't get that much mileage during one year either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had similar issues as well. When i first bought the truck(93 lightning 351 w/e40d) it would shift hard but shortly after it just stays in first gear, the only way it shifts if you give it some gas. Speedo jumps sportadically at 55+mph(speedo worked fine, only replaced VSS for a troubleshooting step for the transmission). Here 's a list of what i've done.

Replaced:

VSS(twice)

TPS

New PCM Relay

Replaced all fuses

Neutral safety switch(twice)

PSOM.(went back to orginal after no change)

shift soleinod

+

Transmission fluid/filter change(no metal shavings found)

replaced springs accumaltor body

 

The wierd thing is that it would shift fine after a hard reset and then go right back to delayed shifting.I'm down to either a bad PCM or the clutches/bands are worn out in the tranny. Please help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

351Lightning...Nice truck!  You have hit a lot of possibilities with your troubleshooting and parts replacement.  The clutches and bands cannot be ruled out, but this is usually symptomatic of slippage and clear signs of malfunctioning.  If the gears hold firmly, and if there is no slippage when the unit does shift between gears, I would not suspect the bands and clutches yet.  That's still on the trouble spot list, though.  Debris in the pan, especially a lot of friction material and metal, is symptomatic of clutch and band troubles.

 

Is there a possibility that a shift kit was installed in the valve body?  You purchased the truck pre-owned, and a Lightning could be a candidate for aftermarket tinkering.  The original symptoms sound like valve body related issues, like high pressure occurring and causing hard shifting.  I would check overall hydraulic pressures and apply pressures in each gear.  This may show high pressures at the wrong time, and that could be a valve body issue.  Holding in a lower gear is usually VSS, governor, solenoids or hydraulic boost pressure.  A defective or improperly staged valve body could cause these symptoms.  You've doubled up on the VSS already.

 

Hydraulic pressure tests are a time-honored troubleshooting measure for automatic transmissions.  The transmission needs the right pressures to shift properly, to hold clutches and bands, and to send signals to the governor.  Torque converter slip is a separate issue, but the transmission itself relies on proper line and valving pressures to perform its duties. 

 

There are hydraulic test sequences in the factory workshop manual.  If you do not have access, I can provide this information for your E4OD.  Before rebuilding the transmission, perform the hydraulic tests, some of which can be simulated with electronic troubleshooting steps.  Others require a pressure gauge and sequence tests.  Hydraulic pressure, fluid routing, solenoid switching and boost pressure timing are each critical to proper shifting.

 

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So here it is.

I own a 1995 Ford F350 7.3l turbo diesel dually 2WD with 300,000+ miles on it and E4OD trans. before taking it on its first long drive to Pennsylvania from North Carolina I checked all fluids and found the transmission fluid low and added DEX/MERC to the proper levels. as soon as I hit the highway it fail to shift past 3rd and jolted when it shifted from 1st to 2nd. reverse and neutral worked fine. I took it home and cleaned all the connectors on the transmission. I have not pulled codes it does not have obdII. I will pull them as soon as I can. when I tried to drive it the other day it had the same issue but now it takes higher rpms to make it move and slips in and out of gear at low speeds and idle regularly. it will stay in first for a few seconds then no gear on and off until it gets going. my overdrive button on my shifter doesn't work and my shifter is misaligned so when its in drive the shifter is actually on 2 its been this way for awhile with no issue. I also just had to replace the headlight switch and dimmer because it burned up. I could really use some insight and you guys seem extremely knowledgeable on this transmission. anything you could tell me would be very much appreciated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

MurphyLaw...Looking at the addition of fresh ATF as the start of your transmission's problem, this sounds like the fresh fluid may have floated debris from the pan or moved sludge around.  Sludge can also loosen and clog the internal pump screen, a "worst case scenario" since the transmission must come out and apart to remedy.  Let's not race to that prospect just yet.  Granted, if the transmission is original and has never been rebuilt, there is a list of possibilities.

The shift linkage should be adjusted/aligned to assure that the valve body is directing fluid properly and with enough volume.  For openers, the rule of thumb is to drop the oil pan and check for debris in the pan.  Note the type of debris, a few cell phone photos would provide something we can evaluate.  Change the filter while you're in there.  Make sure the oil filter pickup screen seals properly to assure fluid pickup.  Replenish with fresh fluid, this is just the pan fill and does not include the converter.  To include the converter, an option would be a machine flush with flushing equipment plus the installation of a fresh filter.  Given the symptoms, I would drop the oil pan to see what's accumulated there and spare the cost of a full flush.

Start with these basics.  The change of fluid and a new filter may help.  Update on the results, we'll go from there.  Please clarify whether the mileage on this E4OD is 300K.  If so, behind a 7.3L Navistar diesel in an F350 dually, the unit's service life would be exceptional.

Moses 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i am the proud ouner of a 1996 f-250 with a 7.3 and an e4od it shifts in to first and drives ok but when it goes into second it kicks back to first and reverse dosnt work either but it trys  it has 176000 miles on it any sugustions before i spend 4000 on a transmission

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

f250diesel...I would do an electronic module check for transmission related fault codes...This is a case where the shift pattern is affected but not necessarily the hard parts yet.  Diagnostics at this level may point to a defective component in the electronic shifting circuits.  Certainly worth the test.  Paying for a diagnostic test is much less costly than the $4K transmission approach.

At 176K with a 7.3L Powerstroke V-8, there may be a need for rebuilding, but try the diagnostics first, if that turns up a defective component, replace it, then see how the unit performs.

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just bought my 1994 F350 quad cab dually with a 7.3 diesel and E4OD. Most of the time it shifts fine but at times 1st to 2nd hits hard, 2nd to 3rd shifts up and then shift back down several times and in overdrive at 50 to 80 mph will drop back to 3rd acting like it is slipping. The cruise control engages for about 2 seconds. The overdrive light use to flash on and off at slow speeds or at a stop. Changed out the RPM sensor since it was bad which fixed that problem. It had bare wires for about 3/4" above the screw in plug. Was told that was from oil being on them for a long period of time. Any ideas why the weird shifting.  Just wondering what the miles per gallon should be. 4:10 rear end.

Herman.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Welcome to forums, TxWolf53...Like usual, a code read would be helpful and at least point toward any obvious issues.  As I caution, reinforced by the experiences of members and what they have shared, a code does not always mean, "Oh, let's replace that part!"  Many owners have joined the forums after throwing good money after bad with no success.

Before considering other issues, and based upon the symptoms you describe, I would check out the FIPL (Throttle Position Sensor).  On the 7.3L diesel models like yours, a defective or simply out of adjustment FIPL can lead to shift irregularities like you describe.  Often, a careful adjustment will remedy the issue.  Here is the factory procedure.  Zoom-in for details:

Ford E4OD FIPL Diesel.pdf

Check out the FIPL and try an adjustment first...A code read would be helpful, too.  Let us know what you find.

Fuel efficiency is subjective.  In general, diesels are hypersensitive to rpm.  The 7.3L Navistar/Powerstroke is, in my view, the best diesel option Ford has offered to date.  Fuel efficiency with this engine, however, is more like a medium duty truck application.  If you drive close to the engine's torque peak rpm, or below that rpm, you will be able to get an accurate read on fuel efficiency.  

You should be able to achieve 18-plus mpg when running empty at cruise speeds.  Trailering to 10K Gross should still attain 11-14 mpg at the right rpm.  The 4.10 gears will challenge mileage a bit but this kind of ratio takes a load off the engine and transmission.  

How many miles are on the powertrain (engine/transmission)?  This can impact fuel efficiency some.

Moses

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I got a OBD1 from Innova that supposed to have all the Bells and Whistles. It gave me a code for the TPS saying the lever was out of position. I got a TPS from Advanced Auto Parts for $21.64 with taxes (helps working in that industry). Just put it on and will see if that helps. Going to change out the connector also could be in better shape. Only thing that worries me is I read in another forum how to test it using a voltage Gage. Said to turn on the key without starting it and check for 5 volts on position A org/wht wire. B blk/whit wire is ground and C should have 1.2 volts with throttle closed and 4 to 4.5 volt throttle wide open. I am getting .02 to .04 volts on A and 4.98 volts no mater where the throttle is. Hard enough to get to the screws on the TPS but without removing the whole air cleaner area can not even get inner screw on the bracket to loosen it up to turn it

As far as fuel mileage I am getting at best 9.5 mpg on the highway. There are a bit over 177,500 miles on it. The prior owners used it in a Custom home building company dragging a 7,000 lb Bobcat around using a goose-neck trailer. Highway speeds it is turning about 2,500 rpms. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your mileage on-highway, if without a trailer or load, is very poor.  The TPS fix may make a difference here.  Otherwise, it might be worth doing a compression check, as this engine had a good workout for a long period of time.  The 7.3L is known for much longer service life than 177K, some would even argue that this medium duty powerplant in a pickup chassis is just broken in at this mileage.  However, the constant trailer towing with a Bobcat would suggest that your engine has been worked more like a medium duty truck application than a light-duty F-350.

Here are the specs on your engine.  In any case, you're spinning the engine way too fast at cruise speeds for decent fuel efficiency.  Peak torque is at 1400 rpm, peak horsepower at 3000 rpm.  I would want to run this engine in the 1400-2100 rpm range at cruise speed unloaded.  For strictly fuel efficiency, the closer to 1400-1800 rpm the better.  Others may have additional, real-world experience and thoughts.  Here are your engine specs, courtesy of dieselhub.com:

http://www.dieselhub.com/idi/7.3-idi.html

There are examples online of Ford F250/350 owners installing an auxiliary box like the Spicer 5831 behind the transmission/transfer case.  These units provide an underdrive, direct and overdrive ratio.  Depending upon the series, OD ratios of .73 and .85 are available.  (See: http://6066gmcguy.com/spicer-5831-b.html.)  At your current road speeds, the 2500 rpm would drop to 2125 rpm with the .85 overdrive and 1825 rpm with the .73 overdrive ratio.  A considerable project but some find it worthwhile. Another option is to slow down; short of an auxiliary transmission, I find this helps the most.

Another option would be 3.73 axle gearing, however, if you tow weight most of the time, such taller gearing would put a larger load on the E4OD.  Before investing in an auxiliary transmission, evaluate the 7.3L engine's condition (compression, oil pressure, etc.) and tune.

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Moses Ludel said:

Your mileage on-highway, if without a trailer or load, is very poor.  The TPS fix may make a difference here.  Otherwise, it might be worth doing a compression check, as this engine had a good workout for a long period of time.  The 7.3L is known for much longer service life than 177K, some would even argue that this medium duty powerplant in a pickup chassis is just broken in at this mileage.  However, the constant trailer towing with a Bobcat would suggest that your engine has been worked more like a medium duty truck application than a light-duty F-350.

Here are the specs on your engine.  In any case, you're spinning the engine way too fast at cruise speeds for decent fuel efficiency.  Peak torque is at 1400 rpm, peak horsepower at 3000 rpm.  I would want to run this engine in the 1400-2100 rpm range at cruise speed unloaded.  For strictly fuel efficiency, the closer to 1400-1800 rpm the better.  Others may have additional, real-world experience and thoughts.  Here are your engine specs, courtesy of dieselhub.com:

http://www.dieselhub.com/idi/7.3-idi.html

There are examples online of Ford F250/350 owners installing an auxiliary box like the Spicer 5831 behind the transmission/transfer case.  These units provide an underdrive, direct and overdrive ratio.  Depending upon the series, OD ratios of .73 and .85 are available.  (See: http://6066gmcguy.com/spicer-5831-b.html.)  At your current road speeds, the 2500 rpm would drop to 2125 rpm with the .85 overdrive and 1825 rpm with the .73 overdrive ratio.  A considerable project but some find it worthwhile. Another option is to slow down; short of an auxiliary transmission, I find this helps the most.

Another option would be 3.73 axle gearing, however, if you tow weight most of the time, such taller gearing would put a larger load on the E4OD.  Before investing in an auxiliary transmission, evaluate the 7.3L engine's condition (compression, oil pressure, etc.) and tune.

Moses

The TPS seems to helped. It is shifting smoothly and no weird multiple up and down shifting. Wish that had taken care of the cruise control. Still drops out in about 5 seconds and a cladding noise from the cruise control on the firewall and the ABS light has been on since I bought it. Did change out the VSS and the connector. Will get the rear-end fluid changed this weekend to see if there is any crud in it and what the tone ring looks like. I topped off the main fuel tank and will see if the TPS change out helps the mileage. Still need to find out where that fuel smell is coming from. I had seen the spicer https://www.gearvendors.com/f2wd4s.html before but at around $3,000.00 not quite ready to spend that yet, maybe later. The 2,500 rpm was on the toil road at 80 mph. It is closer to 2,000 at 60 mph.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Glad the TPS fix solved the shifting issues, TxWolf53!  What's your fuel mileage at 60 mph/2000 rpm?

The Gear Vendors option has been around for many decades, though Gear Vendors cautions against use of its overdrive with a diesel powered truck that tows.  I considered the GV Overdrive for our Ram 3500, and GV frowned on the idea, concerned that I would use double overdrive while trailering.  (I swore that I'd promote sole use of direct in the GV unit while towing; based on GV experience, they were not convinced that other owners would do so.)  Many users have overtaxed the GV units towing very heavy loads (visualize the nine-horse trailers) in double overdrive.  It's a warranty issue, I'm sure...

The auxiliary transmissions I'm describing are medium and heavy duty truck grade counter gear units.  The 5831 was common in dump trucks run in pits.  Ford optioned these units in these bigger trucks.  Here's one account of the even heavier duty Spicer 7231 B swapped into a Ford F-250 tow chassis, see "Two-Stick":  http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/587547-a-new-brownie-thread-5.html  These units are generically called a "Brownie" after the original Brown-Lipe design that Spicer later acquired and produced.

An auxiliary transmission like these will require mounting the box between the transmission (2WD models) or the transfer case (4WD models) and the rear axle.  There is fabrication and driveline work involved, this is a significant but in some cases worthwhile project.  May be far easier to slow down, our diesels will run faster but burn far more fuel in the process.

Moses

  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

May have spoke too soon on the shifting. At 65 and up acts like it drops out of gear and rpm jumps to 3,000 or higher before it goes back into 4th. Had the rear-end checked. Some metal shaving but otherwise no problems. Tone ring seems fine. They cleaned it out, refilled it and resealed the cover $150.00 (ouch) I brought in the gear oil and the black RTV. Is a 10:25 4:10 not a limited slip. ABS light still on . Would the trailer braking unit possibly cause the ABS to not work? Tried to get it inspection-ed and they said the rear passenger wheels were locking up. Took it apart and blew out a ton of brake dust and cleaned the area. Still plenty of material left and nothing appears to be broken or leaking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The trailer brake controller could be causing an ABS issue.  I'd try disconnecting the controller, clear the trouble code(s), then see whether the ABS light goes out.  Rotate the rear wheels and drive the truck to make sure there is no wheel lockup or brake drag.    

Any signs of heat when you checked the rear brakes?  Were the brakes showing signs of dragging?  

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a 94 F150 4x4 Flareside. Trany type E, I think it is a E4OD.  Several years ago I hauled a car through the WV mountains, a couple of years later the trany seems to be shifting late with loss of power.  It has 114k miles on it and never had the filter of fluid changed.  I am no way a mechanic and know nothing about tranys.  Could changing filter and fluid solve my problems or did I burn up the clutches?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dawgsfan196977...Lots of controversy about whether or not to change automatic transmission fluid.  As a professional, even if fluid is red and looks good, I find it advantageous to at least change the pan fluid and the filter.  You can make sense of the transmission's wear level by the debris in the oil pan.  This can read like a map: types of metal, overt signs of breakage and ominous damage, or simply normal clutch frictions wear.

If the problem is governor speed related, a fluid change might help.  However, the E4OD has a legacy of shift issues related to speed control signals, the speedometer related electronics and the VSS.  Without "borrowing trouble", at 114K miles a fluid and filter change is certainly practical as a first step.  You can go from there...The fresh filter assures adequate fluid pick up and flow volume.

Moses

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now