53HiHood Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 Moses, A friend of mine bought a 2006 650L a couple months ago, I went with him to inspect it and pick it up. It's been problem free up until recent. About a week ago he told me the chain slider somehow came off the top of the swingarm and was flapping off the bottom. No big deal, bought a new one and I watched him install it correctly. 5 miles down the road and the top came off and went through the front sprocket. I looked at everything, mounting hardware was still intact, chain is a touch loose, but nothing glaring. Any experiences losing a slider, let alone two in as many rides? I can't say that I have. So we turn around to head back to my house and the bike makes it a couple miles before dying. I get it started, figured maybe it was operator error as my buddy is new to bikes and such. Then it died again another mile down the road. It would start momentarily with the choke on, I ended up running home to get my truck, the bike was done. I had him order a carb kit, I'll start there with a rebuild and replace the plug as it looks overdue. I think this should solve the non-op issue. At the end of the day I would say the slider coming off saved our butts, because otherwise we would have been way up the North Cascade Highway with a bike that didn't want to run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted April 3, 2017 Administrators Share Posted April 3, 2017 Hi, 53HiHood...The slider failure could be misalignment of the rear wheel/axle. Is the chain running straight across the slider? Otherwise maybe too tight on the chain adjustment? The second issue does sound like fuel supply. I've had these kinds of troubles from ethanol/gasoline setting up for too long, clogging the jets. It can be the strainer in the tank or the carburetor. A sticky float needle does this...A kit at the carburetor can solve these issues, dip the carburetor to clean out passages and be sure to inspect jets for clogging. They need replacing if you find hard buildup, I did this on the pilot for my XR350R. Inspect the tank screen at the petcock valve. Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
53HiHood Posted April 12, 2017 Author Share Posted April 12, 2017 I had my buddy order a carb kit and I gave it a thorough cleaning and replaced all consumables. We also replaced the spark plug while we had the tank off. I haven't checked in the tank but we'll do that. The bike fired right up afterwards. As for the slider issue, I checked tension and alignment, everything checks out. The seller makes the sliders, and had commented that it was maybe a bad batch. I sent the bike on a short test ride and so far so good. I'll have him do a couple more short trips before hitting the open road. Thanks for the insight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted April 13, 2017 Administrators Share Posted April 13, 2017 Glad you have a likely solution and a riding buddy! Sounds like the remedies worked...I like the idea of short test rides before the longer adventure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
53HiHood Posted December 3, 2017 Author Share Posted December 3, 2017 The 650 is back in my shop. My buddies last ride ended with what sounds like the engine seizing. I wasn't there so I'm not sure what the bike was doing. We'll be digging into it this week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
53HiHood Posted December 6, 2017 Author Share Posted December 6, 2017 We pulled the top end this evening and it looked as I expected it would. The cam was dry, the oil is super dark, and the piston was seized. Pulling the cylinder exposed the damaged piston and seized wrist pin. Let's hope the crank is ok. I'll have to split the cases to thoroughly clean the bottom end. Anyone have their top end seize like this before? The oil level was sufficient. My thoughts are failed oil pump or a blocked oil passage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted December 11, 2017 Administrators Share Posted December 11, 2017 53HiHood...Definitely lack of oil flow...Restricted flow, an obstruction, running the engine low on oil or a blocked passageway, clogged oil filter, failed oil pump, things you know. Gasket or dowel misalignment at the barrel base or head is rare but a possibility. Has this engine been apart before? This is a rugged, older wet-sump oil system design that is not particularly failure prone. If the bike set up for long periods, oil sludge is a possibility, it's great that you're tearing the engine down completely despite the work involved. The clutch discs need cleaning and inspection...All passageways need cleaning...The sump screen on this wet-sump lubrication system could be clogged, maybe the origin of the trouble. I'd look closely here... Please share pics of your findings. I'm curious what you find to be the cause. Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
53HiHood Posted December 18, 2017 Author Share Posted December 18, 2017 I attached a picture of the piston and bore, both are wiped out. The rod is seized on the crank as well. The bike did sit a lot during the summer and I also don't believe the oil had been changed since this Spring. The owner is new to bikes and not mechanically inclined, which is partially why the bike is in this condition now. Lesson learned for him, when the bike starts making noise don't keep riding. I haven't split the cases yet, I've been working on my own bike. I'll post pictures once I do. It doesn't appear that the engine has been apart before. I'll be sending the head, cylinder, and crank to millennium technologies. The cylinder will need a +1 or 2mm overbore. I think a slight bump in c.r. and stage 1 hot cam wouldn't hurt. A valve job and new con rod and trued crank will also been done. Any input is welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted December 21, 2017 Administrators Share Posted December 21, 2017 You called this one...oil starvation and seizure. If you can get by with 1mm oversize on the bore, that would be better than +2mm. You're planning right with a complete teardown, bearings could be scored from lack of oil. It will not surprise me if you find the sludge/sump screen filter clogged. Clutch lining would be one type of floating debris that can wreak havoc with this filter. Rubber seals get replaced and check for warp and other issues. Check the clutch plates and basket, the usual stuff. This engine was severely stressed, you want to inspect everything, including the oil pump for scoring and clearance issues. Any springs should be checked for standing height at the very least. Look for discoloration and other signs of fatigue. Your friend's XR650L could benefit from a HotCams Stage 1 upgrade. I'm thrilled with this on the XR650R and even more thrilled to have eliminated the factory auto-decompressor kick starting mechanism. Does the Stage 1 XR650L camshaft eliminate the auto-decompressor for kick-over? I use the handlebar manual de-compression lever/release to 1) pinpoint TDC on the compression stroke and 2) bring the piston over TDC just slightly. Release the lever and kick through with full compression. Tuned properly, the engine should start first kick 90% of the time—two kicks the other 10%. Unheard of, supposedly, for an XR650R! Looking forward to your pics when you get the time to tear the engine down completely... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
53HiHood Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 We’re getting close to reassembly. I had to send the head to Engine Dynamics in Petaluma for cam journal repair. There is a journal machined into the head and when the oil level or quality is insufficient bad things happen. I guess it’s not uncommon for these bikes to have oil starvation issues when ridden at highway speeds for long periods. Not a cheap repair, about $200 to weld the journal to build it back up and then re-machine it. But cheaper than the valve job, $300 is a bit steep for a basic 4 valve head. I should have just had them do the repair and sent the head with the crank and cylinder to Millenium Technologies as they charge about half as much. The crank may or may not be serviceable. Apparently the gear that’s pressed onto the crank can be a real pain and the shop says it’s usually 50/50 with getting the gear off. It’s been at least a few weeks since I sent the cylinder and crank in, no word on when they’ll be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted March 1, 2018 Administrators Share Posted March 1, 2018 53HiHood...A new Honda cylinder head casting is still available. I'm wondering whether a new casting would be cost effective? I looked up a popular online Honda parts source and pricing. The Genuine Honda cylinder head, part number 12200-MY6-670 for a 2006 Honda 650L (49-State model) complete with valve guides, is $458.87 from one source. You would still have valves, springs, retainers, the camshaft and other parts to consider. Not sure whether the guides are installed and the seats cut and finished on this head assembly. Interesting look at aftermarket service options... Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
53HiHood Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 Engine Dynamics did a great job on the head repair. I wish I had the cylinder and crank so that I could assemble the engine. I'm hoping those will be finished and shipped today, but I've been hoping that for a month now. I did look at new head options, as well as new cranks. These 650L's are not the cheapest honda's to rebuild. At least the cylinder has a sleeve that can be easily bored and honed, otherwise total cost would be near the value of the bike itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted March 12, 2018 Administrators Share Posted March 12, 2018 Yep, it does add up. The good news is your attention to detail and a lucky friend who will be the recipient of a very reliable XR650L air-cooled engine when you finish this project... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
53HiHood Posted March 13, 2018 Author Share Posted March 13, 2018 He better hope the parts show up before I leave for Colorado. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted March 13, 2018 Administrators Share Posted March 13, 2018 Agreed...It would be good to get closure on this XR650L project before the new assignment at Durango! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
53HiHood Posted April 1, 2018 Author Share Posted April 1, 2018 I ended up getting the crank the week before I left. Millenium Technologies forgot to include the cylinder and piston kit in the shipment, which makes twice this winter they did that, and I got that stuff just days before I had to leave. A couple long nights and I had it all assembled minus a couple things. My buddy will have to finish putting the bike together and do the initial start up and break in without me. I’ll walk him through that though. I will say this, I’m shopping for a new machine shop. I don’t like to stress over things when I’m working on bikes. Turnaround times in excess of a month and misplaced parts is not acceptable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted April 4, 2018 Administrators Share Posted April 4, 2018 Understood...Your experience is insightful for others...Enjoy your new "home", Durango is a great base for bikes and outdoor activities. I know your work is demanding, but when you do have the time, the area will be perfect for your Honda CRF (dirt and snow both) and the CJ3B! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
53HiHood Posted December 11, 2018 Author Share Posted December 11, 2018 An update on the XR650L, my buddy(the owner) finished putting the bike back together, which was really just installing the exhaust, battery, and a few other little things. The aftermarket cam does not have a decompression feature so he had to install a more powerful battery, I’ll have to check with him on the model. Other than that, he was really pleased with the power and responsiveness of the new engine. I have not ridden it myself but I’ll get on it att some point this winter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted December 17, 2018 Administrators Share Posted December 17, 2018 53HiHood...Always good to hear your news! You're finally past the fire season, which must have been exhaustive this year...Are you still based at Durango Area? Any snow riding with the CRF planned? Moses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
53HiHood Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 I’m not in Durango anymore, that was just a 5 month temp reassignment. I’m back in the great PNW! The snow is finally falling so I’ll be riding the little CRF soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted December 18, 2018 Administrators Share Posted December 18, 2018 Not so little CRF...You're making major horsepower!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
53HiHood Posted January 20, 2019 Author Share Posted January 20, 2019 I finally got to see the XR650L is action after I rebuilt the engine this past Spring. Too my disliking, I could hear the loose rockers when my buddy pulled up. He has not been properly maintaining the bike, mostly due to lack of experience and knowledge so I made him watch a quick YouTube video on valve clearance checks and had him help me set the valve clearance on the bike. All valves were way out of spec. But all is good now, fortunately he put minimal hours on the bike. And why can’t all bikes be that easy and quick for valve checks and adjustments? We did do some riding, my big Africa Twin is maybe too big for single track and gets squirrely in the mud. I think I’m going to look at different options for the front tire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted January 21, 2019 Administrators Share Posted January 21, 2019 Glad your work on the XR650L turned out well and that you caught the valve adjustment need right away. Would be a shame to damage a fresh valve job...The Africa Twin is bigger than my XR650R, which is actually okay with single track. Weight is a large factor. Tires can make a big difference, your findings will be helpful to other owners of Africa Twins. Your Africa Twin has the manual clutch, right? Not the semi-automatic transmission...I spent time at the local dealer at Reno, the floor model was the semi-automatic. I'm old school here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
53HiHood Posted January 21, 2019 Author Share Posted January 21, 2019 I spent a lot of time on an XR400R and while a heavy bike for dirt bike standards, much better than the AT. It’s also a couple hundred pounds lighter. I do have the standard 6 speed, but I would mind trying the DCT, I hear it’s nice. Rekluse does make an auto clutch for the AT now, although for the riding I do I don’t think it will be much of a benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted January 22, 2019 Administrators Share Posted January 22, 2019 Did you like the XR400R? There's a cult following, and my son picked one up with only 134 original miles (nubs still on the tires!). It's stored at the moment, and we'll ride this Spring. Air cooled with dry sump, should be a nice trail and desert bike... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
53HiHood Posted January 26, 2019 Author Share Posted January 26, 2019 The 400 is a great bike, one of the best trail bikes in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Moses Ludel Posted January 28, 2019 Administrators Share Posted January 28, 2019 Will share your praise for the 400 with my son, he's heard it from me, but your view is hands-on...Apparently, there's a reason for the cult following...I'm drawn to the dry-sump oiling system and oil cooler...This is as good as it gets for an air-cooled engine (ask Porsche) and why I am storing a vintage XR500R for restoration. My 1984 XR350R is a wet sump. Both of these models have dual carburetors...The 400 is a single carburetor model, simpler if not "better". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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